royal62184
Prince
It is usually really expensive to trade for.
Role Play Challenge: The Return of the Russian Spy
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
Kev
Hired Goon
Expensive or no, I'd surely make whatever trade to get coal - even for the short term. Trade your oil for a while. Trade horses, oil, copper, iron, and whatever else at once. Sabotage resources in other lands that you have extras of so the AI might trade. You can at least get rails up as they won't go away if you lose your coal source.
Weaker iron works is not such a huge hit - building in a city that has iron will give a boost and I rarely have a city that has both coal and iron anyway.
With regard to coal plants, it's tough that you can't build them right off, but if you get coal in trade you can at least get them up and running for as long as you have the resource, no? Also, there are always nuke plants and, if you get to plastics and have a good production city in the right spot, Three Gorges. Heck, you might even consider whipping the science slider up once you can go for plastics to be sure you get there first and thus a head start on that wonder.
Now the trick - will you have aluminum? Also key for a space race.
Weaker iron works is not such a huge hit - building in a city that has iron will give a boost and I rarely have a city that has both coal and iron anyway.
With regard to coal plants, it's tough that you can't build them right off, but if you get coal in trade you can at least get them up and running for as long as you have the resource, no? Also, there are always nuke plants and, if you get to plastics and have a good production city in the right spot, Three Gorges. Heck, you might even consider whipping the science slider up once you can go for plastics to be sure you get there first and thus a head start on that wonder.
Now the trick - will you have aluminum? Also key for a space race.
Joshua368
Warmongering builder
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,072
Don't know how resources work?
When a resource is hooked up to your empire every city gets the benefit of it, you don't have to have the resource in a specific city's BFC. Every city will have coal and iron if you can hook it up. (except for the National Park city, as that national wonder removes access to coal)Kev
Hired Goon
I understand how that works with resources of course, but perhaps I have the Iron Works wonder wrong then. I thought that the city had to have iron and/or coal in the BFC in order to have the bonus specifically for that wonder. That's my mistake if it's otherwise, and I'd be pleased to learn something new in this regard too.
royal62184
Prince
I thought it was +50% w/ iron and +50% w/ coal. You don't need iron and coal to build it I don't think just one of the them. I intrepreted Kev's post as saying if he traded for coal built ironworks and stop trading for coal the 50% loss from not having coal would not be a big deal.
assass1n
Warlord
You get 50p.c. each for Iron and Coal wherever it is in your empire
Kev
Hired Goon
Nah, I had the wonder interpreted incorrectly - thinking the resources had to be in the BFC for the wonder to get the bonus from each. Don't know why I had that wrong. Sorry for my confusion.
Whatever the case, still makes good sense to trade for coal with whatever you can muster, get rails up and even a coal plant or two. I'd suggest even getting the coal plant up in the city that will build Three Gorges. Once you have that wonder and your rails built, you can cancel the deal if you wish and only suffer a slight loss in the effectiveness of your Iron Works.
Whatever the case, still makes good sense to trade for coal with whatever you can muster, get rails up and even a coal plant or two. I'd suggest even getting the coal plant up in the city that will build Three Gorges. Once you have that wonder and your rails built, you can cancel the deal if you wish and only suffer a slight loss in the effectiveness of your Iron Works.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Khan Quest
Prince
Who is the best leader for an espionage economy?
The Great Wall is crucial, to get the early great spy, so I think Industrious is important. Optionally, one that starts with mining so you get to BW, then chop it.
Early courthouses are a must, so I think Organized is important as well. So the best would be...FDR. Runner’s up are Qin Shi Huang, Bismarck, Asoka, and Stalin. Comments? Opinions? Critiques? Flames?
The Great Wall is crucial, to get the early great spy, so I think Industrious is important. Optionally, one that starts with mining so you get to BW, then chop it.
Early courthouses are a must, so I think Organized is important as well. So the best would be...FDR. Runner’s up are Qin Shi Huang, Bismarck, Asoka, and Stalin. Comments? Opinions? Critiques? Flames?
I think Philosophical is more important to EE then Industrious, Khan. After all, you only need to build one, rather cheap, wonder to get it going, but you'll have countless of Gspys. I agree Organized is very nice for an EE, so Frederick is probably the best Espionage leader.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Ready to post the next segment. Some interesting times ahead!
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Return of the Russian Spy: Part VII
Well espionage certainly results in rather long games! Looks to me like we have one path to victory here!
We plugged along alternating between commiting commerce to either gold or espionage.
We managed a great, if pricey trade
The interesting thing is that I have managed to keep this trade going all segment with some changes as KK demands more and more. Still, we have the gold.
And because of the GS points from the National Park we managed to pop
Which we used for a GA!
After using all that oil to upgrade our frigates to destroyers we finally stole
And KK STILL is trading us oil. SO we have ALOT of tanks laying arround, but probably not as many as I whould have built.
BUT, the more important question is DO WE HAVE ALUMINUM???
Two sources, one on top of a former Spanish city and another deep within our own territory.
I did notice that Hammurabi managed to sneak in artillery as a monopoly tech which I easily stole to still maintain a tech edge.
NOW, what did we actually steal? well
Industrialism-Zara
Refridgeration-Zara
Artillery-Hammurabi
Mass Media-KK
Plastics-Zara
Rockectry-KK
Superconductors-Zara
All this caused alot of failed missions and caught spies in Ethiopian lands, ending with a ticked off Zara. Thus we decided to
And adopted Confuscianism. By the end we got Zara to friendly even with -8 diplo points to caught spies! Our only threat are Gilg and KK who are in free religion.
And to further cement the bonds of friendship we once again caved in to Zara's demands
Then some interesting events occurred
First we got lucky and popped coal
GREAT! Power to all cities now in case we lose the 3 Gorges Dam race.
The Gilgamesh decides to suicide himself by declaring war on KK
KK and Isabella destroyed him picking up a vassal. Well, we don't have to worry about Gilgamesh in the culture race, but KK is a serious issue as he HAS TURNED OFF THE SCIENCE SLIDER by the save!
At this point we managed to steal rocketry off of KK
and built
Unfortunately, KK is simply too large as we could not even get the chairmanship!
We managed to get the meteor random event for 5% spaceship production.
We also got yet another GSpy and since we had a Scotland Yard in EVERY city (except the pathetic and weak former Spanish cities) we
First infiltration mission all game!
And once I stole this
I realized I needed to build observatories to get the UB for faster spaceship part production.
We saved here, with the tech situation
Disgustingly, I lost 5 spies trying to steal flight from KK even though they had a 55% chance of succeeding. This is a very annoying aspect of the espionage game. That many failed missions in a row is simply stupid.
So since flight is not that important anyway, we stopped trying to steal it a kept espionage against KK
BECAUSE!!!!!!!!!
Going for the culture win! Right now I am stock piling spies in KK's #3 city to send it into continual revolt. Also KK "Has Enough on HIs Hands" so he's going after someone. Even if he left us alone (we are the only close on in power) he likely has enough power to get a domination win on his own.
Well, there you have it. We are trying for an espionage space race with a powerful and cultural Khan at our borders!
Well espionage certainly results in rather long games! Looks to me like we have one path to victory here!
We plugged along alternating between commiting commerce to either gold or espionage.
We managed a great, if pricey trade
The interesting thing is that I have managed to keep this trade going all segment with some changes as KK demands more and more. Still, we have the gold.
And because of the GS points from the National Park we managed to pop
Which we used for a GA!
After using all that oil to upgrade our frigates to destroyers we finally stole
And KK STILL is trading us oil. SO we have ALOT of tanks laying arround, but probably not as many as I whould have built.
BUT, the more important question is DO WE HAVE ALUMINUM???
Two sources, one on top of a former Spanish city and another deep within our own territory.
I did notice that Hammurabi managed to sneak in artillery as a monopoly tech which I easily stole to still maintain a tech edge.
NOW, what did we actually steal? well
Industrialism-Zara
Refridgeration-Zara
Artillery-Hammurabi
Mass Media-KK
Plastics-Zara
Rockectry-KK
Superconductors-Zara
All this caused alot of failed missions and caught spies in Ethiopian lands, ending with a ticked off Zara. Thus we decided to
And adopted Confuscianism. By the end we got Zara to friendly even with -8 diplo points to caught spies! Our only threat are Gilg and KK who are in free religion.
And to further cement the bonds of friendship we once again caved in to Zara's demands
Then some interesting events occurred
First we got lucky and popped coal
GREAT! Power to all cities now in case we lose the 3 Gorges Dam race.
The Gilgamesh decides to suicide himself by declaring war on KK
KK and Isabella destroyed him picking up a vassal. Well, we don't have to worry about Gilgamesh in the culture race, but KK is a serious issue as he HAS TURNED OFF THE SCIENCE SLIDER by the save!
At this point we managed to steal rocketry off of KK
and built
Unfortunately, KK is simply too large as we could not even get the chairmanship!
We managed to get the meteor random event for 5% spaceship production.
We also got yet another GSpy and since we had a Scotland Yard in EVERY city (except the pathetic and weak former Spanish cities) we
First infiltration mission all game!
And once I stole this
I realized I needed to build observatories to get the UB for faster spaceship part production.
We saved here, with the tech situation
Disgustingly, I lost 5 spies trying to steal flight from KK even though they had a 55% chance of succeeding. This is a very annoying aspect of the espionage game. That many failed missions in a row is simply stupid.
So since flight is not that important anyway, we stopped trying to steal it a kept espionage against KK
BECAUSE!!!!!!!!!
Going for the culture win! Right now I am stock piling spies in KK's #3 city to send it into continual revolt. Also KK "Has Enough on HIs Hands" so he's going after someone. Even if he left us alone (we are the only close on in power) he likely has enough power to get a domination win on his own.
Well, there you have it. We are trying for an espionage space race with a powerful and cultural Khan at our borders!
TwoShedsJackson
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 63
I love this thread and the previous EE one with Mao, madscientist. You inspired me to try running an espionage economy in my current game which is totally different from my usual style and is helping me get more out of Civ 4 - thanks 
fugazi
King
Have you considered building the Manhattan Project and using a combination of nukes, fall-out and spies causing cities to become unhappy and unhealthy?
No idea if you can build the first yet, but it might one hell of a way to kick Kublai in the nuts. Otherwise a simple stack of 20 tanks with barrage and city raider might be able to raze those important cities of his.
No idea if you can build the first yet, but it might one hell of a way to kick Kublai in the nuts. Otherwise a simple stack of 20 tanks with barrage and city raider might be able to raze those important cities of his.
Kev
Hired Goon
Agreed on the possible need to exterminate a city or two of Khan's at some point. Does not have to be pretty, and the forces you send do not need to come back.
If the three cities are too deep to reach with tanks without the fear of your stack becoming mincemeat on the way, you can consider taking one if it is coastal with transports/marines. Usually it's possible to set up your ships so you can declare and attack on the same turn.
I know you cannot bombard from sea with siege, so the best you can do is take down the culture defense. Easily done with the spies, which means you don't have to have a huge cadre of warships involved.
Don't even know if any of the cities are coastal - will have to check out the screen shots.
Upon Edit: The only screen shot I could find with the cities was on page 2. Of course Karakorum and New Sari are inland. Can't tell about Beshbalik. And the closest city by land seems to be New Sari - and it's not that close....
If the three cities are too deep to reach with tanks without the fear of your stack becoming mincemeat on the way, you can consider taking one if it is coastal with transports/marines. Usually it's possible to set up your ships so you can declare and attack on the same turn.
I know you cannot bombard from sea with siege, so the best you can do is take down the culture defense. Easily done with the spies, which means you don't have to have a huge cadre of warships involved.
Don't even know if any of the cities are coastal - will have to check out the screen shots.
Upon Edit: The only screen shot I could find with the cities was on page 2. Of course Karakorum and New Sari are inland. Can't tell about Beshbalik. And the closest city by land seems to be New Sari - and it's not that close....
)
Matthew5117
Emperor
Three in a row: 16.6%
Five in a row: 5.03%.
x in a row: .55^x*100
Five in a row: 5.03%.
x in a row: .55^x*100
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Just to let everyone know, I believe this last segment will be very very long or very very fast. I decided to run EE to the max and currently I am sending KK's third culture city repeatedly into revolt which seams to be working. The problem is he is cautious now with -8 diplo penalty to caught spies 
Stewie0416
Who Cares?
The problem is he is cautious now with -8 diplo penalty to caught spies
Hmmm, that may be a slight problem
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