fugazi
King
It's still the right thing to do Rolo! His starting area is .. well .. crap and low on happiness resources 
Role Play Challenge: Tokugawa the Isolationist
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
^^Just like real Japan 
Not that small detail had stopped them in any extent... ( P.S I didn't worldbuidered this crapland... it is almost as it came from the map generator )
Not that small detail had stopped them in any extent... ( P.S I didn't worldbuidered this crapland... it is almost as it came from the map generator )
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Yes, sea exploration is in order once I can fogbust a littel bit more and get access to the copper.
Great Lighthouse will get us 2 extra trade routes and even without open borders they will helps, especially with harbors.
Holdoff on Astronomy? Hell no, I plan to sink alot of AI ships with privateers.
Placement of Osaka: My thinking is this could be an Irownworks powerhouse. 6 hills, grassland horses, the rest grassland river tiles. Farm the grassalnds to build population, then convert to watermills while keeping 1 or 2 farms post-biology. Also with a drydocks and perhaps West Point, we can get alot of highly promoted naval units out of it fast.
Great Lighthouse will get us 2 extra trade routes and even without open borders they will helps, especially with harbors.
Holdoff on Astronomy? Hell no, I plan to sink alot of AI ships with privateers.
Placement of Osaka: My thinking is this could be an Irownworks powerhouse. 6 hills, grassland horses, the rest grassland river tiles. Farm the grassalnds to build population, then convert to watermills while keeping 1 or 2 farms post-biology. Also with a drydocks and perhaps West Point, we can get alot of highly promoted naval units out of it fast.
It is a shocking start, I agree with the others on the importance of checking if there are any other decent land masses you can use near by, it will be intresting to see what type of economy you will adopt to make best use of the land you have.
fugazi
King
I'm not sure what your plan is but if you intent on growing your cities to 6 and bigger (which I would to make your traderoutes way more profitable!) you might want to pick up monarchy. The garrison units will scare away AI's to boot but that's just assuming you won't be finding more happiness resources! I actually like skipping monarchy in my rush towards civil service and universities 
Well, I'm just rambling right now and I'd love to see what you did next after the last update!
but that's just assuming you won't be finding more happiness resources! I actually like skipping monarchy in my rush towards civil service and universities Well, I'm just rambling right now and I'd love to see what you did next after the last update!
I would have placed Osaka also different. Maybe even on the grassland hill to avoid overlap but to give room for 1 more decent city above it. I can understand why you choose this site but with the mediocre land you are having you are going to need every city you can get. If Osaka would have gone 1S or 2S it would also have been a good Maoi statues city.
Anyway, subscribed again. These games of yours are fun and educational. Keep it up.
Anyway, subscribed again. These games of yours are fun and educational. Keep it up.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Tokugawa the Isolationist: Part II
Well the fun thing about Isolated starts is I have absolutely no idea how well I am doing. SO I am going to cautiously say we are doing well although I bet there is one tech monster out there. Taosim was founded by an AI in 100 BC, Confuscism was founded before I got CoL, as well as Christianity. Oracle fell before we even hooked up the Marble, but I think we found an economy to run this Japanese show. Oh, we found all that wonderful land outside of our mainland, alot of great sandtraps if you ask me
So as suggested I qued up an extra archer and a galley in the hopes of finding some juicy goody huts off the coast (of course there were none).
To the south
Lovely.
A view of Osaka, showing how I plan to run farms first and hopefully slowly bring it up to a production powerhouse (we shall see by the end if this was a good idea or not).
Our techpath went: Mysticism/writing/Aesthetics (courtesy of Snaaty's great walkthrough)/Polytheim/Literature/Math/CoL started MC
. I held off currency a bit (I think) as I thought it more important to still try for the Colossus (EDIT: We in fact did tech Currency, I had a brainloss moment).
We also went after the Pyramids, doing alot of chopping arround Kyoto.
Sweet! We swap to representation, we DO NOT take slavery. I am shooting to make Kyoto a nice WonderSpam capital aLa OBSOLETE. Yes that is two other posters detailed strategies I am trying to get going here, like I said the beginning of this game is how I play my off-line games and this is one way on how I would generally approach it.
Did I say Obsolete's wonderspam? There is two parts to that, and the furst GP
I a Great Merchant which we settle. +3 beakers, +6 gold and an extra food is nice to have ALL game long.
Once we get Literature we started on the Great Lighthouse in Kyoto
And going to the NE in Kyoto which we got quickly. These marble based wonders are being built very fast in Kyoto.
And the Mysterious Western lands??? We had to wait until Osaka popped twice to get there, and after eager exploring
????????????
Well, two decent cities there I guess and one badly missplaced Barb city which I plan to ignore for a while. Still these islands could be critical if a vital resoruce is there, such as iron or oil. IW is taking a back seat here as I see no real need for it now.
Our next GP is a GE despite the number of scientists running in Kyoto
We settled him also, 3 hammers and 6 beakers.
Once we teched CoL and revolted to Caste system I saved the game.
Kyoto
The SoZ first (so as to help keep the AIs off our backs) then the parthanon. I do not really care about the Great Artist pollution here.
Our empire so far
Land is not as bad as people are making it out to be IMO.
And the demographics
Like I said before, One AI looks to be ahead. Let's hope it's Mansa Musa who the AI usually loves to dogpile.
So my ideas of the game.
1) We need to settle more cities, two on the sand pile island to the west, One on the northern border, one between Kyoto and Osaka (maybe), one land locked. I guess I gotta settle those lone islands but let's wait until we get the colossus (remember they pay for themselves as we saw in the Willem game).
2) Economy: Combination of a WonderSpammed/settled GP capital and a hybrid the rest of the way. Osaka looks to be a nice SE while we build up the production there and Tokyo and Sasami could run CE. SO a nice mix of Wonderspamming/SE/CE/TE, all as an isolated leader.
3) TEchpath: MC followed by Currency (EDIT: WE Do have Currency already). Then perhaps IW and Compass followed by Civil Service and Machinery for Samuri.
OK, how is it going so far???
2)
Well the fun thing about Isolated starts is I have absolutely no idea how well I am doing. SO I am going to cautiously say we are doing well although I bet there is one tech monster out there. Taosim was founded by an AI in 100 BC, Confuscism was founded before I got CoL, as well as Christianity. Oracle fell before we even hooked up the Marble, but I think we found an economy to run this Japanese show. Oh, we found all that wonderful land outside of our mainland, alot of great sandtraps if you ask me
So as suggested I qued up an extra archer and a galley in the hopes of finding some juicy goody huts off the coast (of course there were none).
To the south
Lovely.
A view of Osaka, showing how I plan to run farms first and hopefully slowly bring it up to a production powerhouse (we shall see by the end if this was a good idea or not).
Our techpath went: Mysticism/writing/Aesthetics (courtesy of Snaaty's great walkthrough)/Polytheim/Literature/Math/CoL started MC
. I held off currency a bit (I think) as I thought it more important to still try for the Colossus (EDIT: We in fact did tech Currency, I had a brainloss moment).
We also went after the Pyramids, doing alot of chopping arround Kyoto.
Sweet! We swap to representation, we DO NOT take slavery. I am shooting to make Kyoto a nice WonderSpam capital aLa OBSOLETE. Yes that is two other posters detailed strategies I am trying to get going here, like I said the beginning of this game is how I play my off-line games and this is one way on how I would generally approach it.
Did I say Obsolete's wonderspam? There is two parts to that, and the furst GP
I a Great Merchant which we settle. +3 beakers, +6 gold and an extra food is nice to have ALL game long.
Once we get Literature we started on the Great Lighthouse in Kyoto
And going to the NE in Kyoto which we got quickly. These marble based wonders are being built very fast in Kyoto.
And the Mysterious Western lands??? We had to wait until Osaka popped twice to get there, and after eager exploring
????????????
Well, two decent cities there I guess and one badly missplaced Barb city which I plan to ignore for a while. Still these islands could be critical if a vital resoruce is there, such as iron or oil. IW is taking a back seat here as I see no real need for it now.
Our next GP is a GE despite the number of scientists running in Kyoto
We settled him also, 3 hammers and 6 beakers.
Once we teched CoL and revolted to Caste system I saved the game.
Kyoto
The SoZ first (so as to help keep the AIs off our backs) then the parthanon. I do not really care about the Great Artist pollution here.
Our empire so far
Land is not as bad as people are making it out to be IMO.
And the demographics
Like I said before, One AI looks to be ahead. Let's hope it's Mansa Musa who the AI usually loves to dogpile.
So my ideas of the game.
1) We need to settle more cities, two on the sand pile island to the west, One on the northern border, one between Kyoto and Osaka (maybe), one land locked. I guess I gotta settle those lone islands but let's wait until we get the colossus (remember they pay for themselves as we saw in the Willem game).
2) Economy: Combination of a WonderSpammed/settled GP capital and a hybrid the rest of the way. Osaka looks to be a nice SE while we build up the production there and Tokyo and Sasami could run CE. SO a nice mix of Wonderspamming/SE/CE/TE, all as an isolated leader.
3) TEchpath: MC followed by Currency (EDIT: WE Do have Currency already). Then perhaps IW and Compass followed by Civil Service and Machinery for Samuri.
OK, how is it going so far???
2)
r_rolo1
King of myself
Hint: if you look closely: there is land south of the desert + fish 1 tile island....
I would not throw away the W island... 2 N of of barb city ( in the desert ) has 2 seafood and some woods... it would give a nice place for some hired scientists
This is not looking that bad, but I would had prioritized Currency more...
I would not throw away the W island... 2 N of of barb city ( in the desert ) has 2 seafood and some woods... it would give a nice place for some hired scientists
This is not looking that bad, but I would had prioritized Currency more...
Spoiler for those that don't plan to shadow this... :
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Rolo, I am looking carefully but cannot make it out. I will swing the galley that was once I get the next settler done.
Edit to latest segment, We do have Currency already. We just do not have enough cities to utilize that extra trade Route, but that shall change soon.
Edit to latest segment, We do have Currency already. We just do not have enough cities to utilize that extra trade Route, but that shall change soon.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Try taking a sentry unit inside the galleys for watery explorations... you get the extra view even in the boat 
... very useful, believe me ( I assume that you don't have stables yet..... but that barb city should give you enough training for getting it )
... very useful, believe me ( I assume that you don't have stables yet..... but that barb city should give you enough training for getting it )
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Try taking a sentry unit inside the galleys for watery explorations... you get the extra view even in the boat
Nope, HBR seams an even lower priority than IW. I need some military to take the barb city out which we are very low on. I was going to wait until Samuri and Gunpowder to escalate that, unless of course we find one of those AIs is that Dammed Portugese leader and his CarrackS
.
IagoAlberto
Warlord
Long time lurker, I quite enjoy these threads, I would strongly second the colossus and get some off island cities going. With the colossus and intercontinental trade they could be quite lucrative. As for tech I would go for metal cating first then civil service for bureaucracy which should be quite advantageous with your capital then prolly compass for trade routes then down the optics path. Here's hoping for no Joao, I think he's my new AI that I love to hate, the backstabber that he is.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Welcome Iago and thanks for following the games.
Yes, MC and Bur to really fire up Kyoto's wonder abilities!
dalamb
Deity
Are there some map generation methods that guarantee an isolated start? Otherwise, how would you know?
Joseph Goebbels
Chieftain
This is nice! I'll follow your story. 
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Rolo donated the map assuring us that it's and Isolated start.
As I understand there are no parameters to setup to guarentee you get a random start, however the lonely heart challenge threads has many Isolated start games.
r_rolo1
King of myself
There is no script that i know about that reliably creates isolated starts... the closest one is the custom continents with a high number of continents and less civs ( even there sometimes the RNG puts you with other civs , letting entire continents to the barbs ) , but it gives pretty predictable maps.
I normally work from fractal maps, regen a lot, WB to check if there is and isolated civ start ( i don't like to mess with starting positions.... ) and switch if necessary
I normally work from fractal maps, regen a lot, WB to check if there is and isolated civ start ( i don't like to mess with starting positions.... ) and switch if necessary
dalamb
Deity
I guess I could get a family member to check the WB for me -- I'd rather not know other things using it would show. Thanks for alerting me to the LHC threads -- but I suspect most of them are at too rarefied levels for me (still coping with Noble).
Edit: I spoke too soon! Just noticed the Ghandi LHC -- thanks for the multiple saves, r_rolo1!
Edit: I spoke too soon! Just noticed the Ghandi LHC -- thanks for the multiple saves, r_rolo1!
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
If you found an off-continent city, all your other cities will trade with that one for double (or close to) the commerce you would get for trading with a city on the same continent.
Ideally, you want 4 large cities, all with very large populations on 3-4 different land masses to provide large trade routes to every single one of your cities. In my experience, you can really abuse this if you have 2+ food resources available in these cities by mixing in warrior military police (disconnect that copper if you have to) until health finally catches up to you and they can grow no more. That should get you 20commerce in trade routes per city (approximately) depending on the size of the city doing the trading.
This assumes you tech to currency (otherwise you only need 3 cities on other land masses and each city will get ~15 commerce in trade). It also assumes heriditary rule (and you are running representation) so maybe you'll have to scale back their sizes a bit.
Question: Does the size of the city matter for the trade route value regardless of the unhappiness in that city? or does the number of happy citizens? - maybe its worth it to just grow your trading cities way past their happy cap until you can't grow anymore.
Ideally, you want 4 large cities, all with very large populations on 3-4 different land masses to provide large trade routes to every single one of your cities. In my experience, you can really abuse this if you have 2+ food resources available in these cities by mixing in warrior military police (disconnect that copper if you have to) until health finally catches up to you and they can grow no more. That should get you 20commerce in trade routes per city (approximately) depending on the size of the city doing the trading.
This assumes you tech to currency (otherwise you only need 3 cities on other land masses and each city will get ~15 commerce in trade). It also assumes heriditary rule (and you are running representation) so maybe you'll have to scale back their sizes a bit.
Question: Does the size of the city matter for the trade route value regardless of the unhappiness in that city? or does the number of happy citizens? - maybe its worth it to just grow your trading cities way past their happy cap until you can't grow anymore.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Size or our city matters, nothing to do with happies or unhappies....
There is a article in the Strategy articles area that covers most of the Trade route mechanics.... will try to find it
It was fast..... Trade routes , by Krikitone
There is a article in the Strategy articles area that covers most of the Trade route mechanics.... will try to find it
It was fast..... Trade routes , by Krikitone
