Ron Paul: Chris Kyle deserved to die.

[MobBoss]

Not "in general", but there is a small percentage who are. And taking them to a gun range is a stupid way to help with PTSD.

I already mentioned that not everyone suffers PTSD the same way. For many, a gun range shooting skeet or targets is great therapy, but for a small percentage of the most severe cases it wouldnt be recommended.

The point should not override the fact that Kyle was trying to help this person.

Typical keyboard warrior attempt at projecting bigotry on someone.

Rofl, you should know.

I personally know a girl with PTSD. On the fourth of July after she got back, she freaked out.

I literally know dozens. Not all of them freak out at the slightest thing.

You have to have undergone some form of traumatic experience to have "post traumatic stress". Don't you think? Are you claiming that merely being in Iraq is sufficient to have a legitimate case of PTSD? Or are you just engaging in even more sheer speculation as an amateur psychologist with no real experience in this matter?

People feel stress differently in different situations Form. I've known convoy drivers that got PTSD because the continual fear of being killed by an IED finally pushed them over the edge.

And while I am not a psychologist at all, I have the experience of having the training to spot those suffering from PTSD and the experience of knowing many who have to deal with it.

When do you think the military will finally announce that Routh was officially diagnosed with PTSD?

Considering privacy concerning medical history, it would take a court order to release it.

Au contraire. It is you and those who are jumping to absurd conclusions who clearly have the "cartoonish views" regarding PTSD and mental health in general.

Not at all. My view of it is certainly not cartoonish and i've given facts and backed those up with links and proof, while you seem to imply silly notions like you can only have PTSD if you were in direct combat.

Indeed. As the Stars and Stripes article I posted above states, those who suffer from serious mental problems only account for 3-5% of violent crimes. And that apparently includes suicides.

How many that are guilty of mass shootings have serious mental issues?

Do you know?

This is why the knee-jerk witch hunt to now "ban" those with mental health issues is so reprehensible. Those who are overly violent and/or have serious emotional problems represent a far greater threat.

Let me get this straight. You are all for an AW ban although said AWs are only used in less than 2% of all criminal acts with weapons....but you think taking action against the 3-5% of the violent mentally ill is reprehensible?

The math of your logic just doesnt add up. At all.

Now would be a good time for Mouthwash and Mobboss to retract their previous statements. But I bet it doesn't occur. They seem to be far too busy deliberately misrepresenting the views of those with whom them merely disagree.

What statement should I have to retract based on that? The one where I called Ron Paul an old fool that says foolish things? Why would I have to retract the truth?

The fact that Ron Paul had to further address the issue with even more foolish comments indicates our previous statements were indeed accurate.

Most veterans with PTSD carry firearms with them as a result of feeling unsafe, stressed and anxiety !

I've never heard this. Source please.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I've never heard this. Source please.

I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed. It must be exciting for you … in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You're really making history, and thanks

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2008/03/afghanistan_envy.html

wait ......

PTSD can develop at any time, but frequently occurs after assaults, such as rape, mugging or domestic violence. Terrorism and natural or human caused disasters and accidents may also play a causal role in PTSD3.

he paces nervously around the house. I asked him why, and he said that in his mind he looking for his M16 because a Marine never leaves his rifle behind and that he has keep reminding himself that he is not in Iraq any more. This is a daily struggle for him

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politics/navy-seal-sniper-shooting/index.html

I dunno Mobboss, apparently people only buy a lot of guns because they are scared of the government tyranny. Being traumatized by war , violent assault or sexual rape means your less likely to seek protection of firearms.

 

[Gucumatz]

Why did you link to an article about Bush...? Of course its ironic considering Bush's history, but it has nothing to do with this conversation here.

 

[MobBoss]

I dunno Mobboss, apparently people only buy a lot of guns because they are scared of the government tyranny. Being traumatized by war , violent assault or sexual rape means your less likely to seek protection of firearms.

Neither of the links you offer confirm you allegation. Do you or dont you have a legitmate source to back up your claim? Otherwise you are just engaging in speculation.

 

[Neomega]

Of course military suicides are very high at the moment

record high. 22 a day.

 

[Crezth]

Not at all. My view of it is certainly not cartoonish and i've given facts and backed those up with links and proof, while you seem to imply silly notions like you can only have PTSD if you were in direct combat.

Yeah, I'm not really getting how it is "cartoonish" to say that PTSD is a varied disease with different triggers and causes, as opposed to saying those who see combat must never hear a popping noise again lest they have an episode.

 

[MobBoss]

record high. 22 a day.

This last year it was higher than that. Almost 1 a day.

 

[Borachio]

This makes zero sense. How is almost 1 a day (incidentally the correct figure as far as I can tell) higher than 22 a day?

Or does Neomega mean to say the number of suicides this year so far is 22?

The rate for the general US population is 12/100,000. That for the military 32/100,000.

 

[Neomega]

veteran suicides 22 a day

active military 1 a day

http://www.forbes.com/sites/melanie...of-veterans-who-now-commit-suicide-every-day/

Course, this discussion is about veterans, with PTSD, not active duty.

 

[MobBoss]

This makes zero sense. How is almost 1 a day (incidentally the correct figure as far as I can tell) higher than 22 a day?

Or does Neomega mean to say the number of suicides this year so far is 22?

Sigh. No. Looking at it I read his post to say .22 a day. All military suicides were 349.

The rate for the general US population is 12/100,000. That for the military 32/100,000.

Actually, this link disagrees with that. http://www.worldmag.com/2013/01/military_suicide_rate_rises_but_remains_below_national_average

According to figures released today, the civilian suicide rate for males aged 17-60 was 25 per 100,000 in 2010, the latest year for which such statistics are available. That compares with the military's rate in 2012 of 17.5 per 100,000.

active military 1 a day

Actually, its not just active, but the figure also includes reserves and National Guard as well.

Course, this discussion is about veterans, with PTSD, not active duty.

Active duty with PTSD turn into veterans with PTSD.

 

[Borachio]

Actually, this link disagrees with that. http://www.worldmag.com/2013/01/military_suicide_rate_rises_but_remains_below_national_average

Actually, I was going to add (but forgot) that the overall figure of 12/100,000 for the US population as a whole was highly misleading (I've no reason to think it's inaccurate particularly) since the most at risk of suicide are young males. Precisely those most likely to serving in the US military.

It looks probable indeed that the US military suicide rate is lower than the comparable civilian population since . . . well . . . at least they have a job.

But hang on. They're talking about veteran suicides here. So, who knows? Why are they classified as military? Ho hum.

 

[MobBoss]

Actually, I was going to add (but forgot) that the overall figure of 12/100,000 for the US population as a whole was highly misleading (I've no reason to think it's inaccurate particularly) since the most at risk of suicide are young males. Precisely those most likely to serving in the US military.

But most veteran suicides are those over 50.

 

[Borachio]

Yes. I accept that. Pardon me. I'm thinking.

 

[Berzerker]

A survey of nearly 1,400 Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans conducted by the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill in 2010 found that servicemembers returning from deployment were more likely to lash out against others, with more than one in 10 threatening to use a weapon during a fight.

That study cited PTSD and combat exposure as possible factors in the violent behavior, but also blamed drug and alcohol misuse, domestic violence history, past criminal tendencies and immaturity of the veterans. A troubled history was more indicative of future problems than PTSD.

By troubled history I'm guessing a bunch of them had PTSD before they ever left home. I saw a health blurb comparing children in violent homes to traumatized soldiers.

 

[dutchfire]

But most veteran suicides are those over 50.

Well, most veterans are over 50. (https://www.va.gov/vetdata/Veteran_Population.asp)

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Former presidential candidate Ron Paul is taking heat for a tweet he sent out Monday afternoon about the Navy SEAL who was killed at a Texas gun range over the weekend.

Chris Kyle, 38, a decorated Iraq war veteran, a former SEAL and author of "American Sniper," was shot and killed Saturday. Police arrested Eddie Ray Routh, 25, a veteran authorities say may have a mental illness related to his military service.

In response to the news, Paul tweeted: "Chris Kyle"s death seems to confirm that "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword." Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn"t make sense."

The tweet set off a chain reaction of criticism online.

Aaron Worthing (@AaronWorthing) responded: "What the Hell, @RonPaul? Are you actually blaming Chris Kyle for his own death?"

Michelle Lancaster (@SkiGarmisch) added, "Very disrespectful commentary to this man, his memory and his family. Shame on you."

From here.

It's controversial, but is understandable to some degree. After all, the soldier made a name out of himself by killing others in missions that may not necessarily be ethical. It can be viewed as a kind of poetic justice that he himself falls to the same fate he subjects others to.. by a fellow soldier no less.

 

[mrt144]

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. Putting former soldiers into environments and doing things they are familiar with is very theraputic to soldiers that suffer PTSD. Soldiers with PTSD often suffer from a feeling of 'not belonging'....doing something like this helps them deal with those feelings.

The Wounded Warrior Project takes soldiers on hunting and fishing trips all the time for theraputic reasons.

Death by fishing rod is pretty rare to boot.