disorganizer
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@saam: you are right. i missed that one this time (i shouldnt work so long!).
RPG Rules - Overall acceptance poll
- Thread starter Shaitan
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Stuck_as_a_Mac
Aptenodytes forsteri
also, can you just throw this all into a word file and make it downloadable?
its extreemly helpful and explains everything.
also, see my ultamada in the main thread.
its extreemly helpful and explains everything.
also, see my ultamada in the main thread.
Shaitan
der Besucher
The pay scale is the basis of the economy. Prices must be set to match pay, not the other way around. Salary per turn chat was the established concensus from the very beginning (as far as I can tell from the morass out there, anyway).
To reiterate, this is the starting point. The rules that the rest have to be based on. This pay scale is essentially equivalent to 1/100 USD. That is, if you make 20g per week that is the rough equivalent to $2000 per week (after taxes!).
To figure out base pricing, take the normal US price for an item and knock 2 decimals off of it. A $35,000 car should be around 350g. This is a workable, solid, base. Easy to figure.
The buk starts here.
To reiterate, this is the starting point. The rules that the rest have to be based on. This pay scale is essentially equivalent to 1/100 USD. That is, if you make 20g per week that is the rough equivalent to $2000 per week (after taxes!).
To figure out base pricing, take the normal US price for an item and knock 2 decimals off of it. A $35,000 car should be around 350g. This is a workable, solid, base. Easy to figure.
The buk starts here.
Shaitan
der Besucher
Salaries were corrected to fall according to relative rank and job responsibilities. After posting the pay schedule I asked for any feedback or justification for different pay levels. Several items were changed. No justification was offered for why mayors should make more money.
I thought salaries were per turn?
10g per turn chat is too few, and it won't be a true representation. What if there's a war, and we stop at turn 2? That's 10g for that one (4 per turn). And what's the bonus? A one time thing? Or, what if we decide to play 20, since there's nothing going on? (maybe we're stuck on an island. It's kind of hard to tell when we're in a clearing of a forest.
or even sand..)
I thought we decided to do the 1gpt - 5gpt setup.
(Yes, I know, 1 gpt would be 10g per turn chat if we did 10 turns). I just think the gpt idea better represents the turns played. This seems like it will cause a stagnant economy. Even if you do get 10 people to by something (maybe 10g), they can't buy anything elsewhere. 2nd shops would be useless (and maybe only first-time shop owners would have enough to support them. Why? Because 2nd shop-owners would need higher prices to pay for expenses).
Also, why do mayors make less than citizens?
10g per turn chat is too few, and it won't be a true representation. What if there's a war, and we stop at turn 2? That's 10g for that one (4 per turn). And what's the bonus? A one time thing? Or, what if we decide to play 20, since there's nothing going on? (maybe we're stuck on an island. It's kind of hard to tell when we're in a clearing of a forest.
or even sand..)I thought we decided to do the 1gpt - 5gpt setup.
(Yes, I know, 1 gpt would be 10g per turn chat if we did 10 turns). I just think the gpt idea better represents the turns played. This seems like it will cause a stagnant economy. Even if you do get 10 people to by something (maybe 10g), they can't buy anything elsewhere. 2nd shops would be useless (and maybe only first-time shop owners would have enough to support them. Why? Because 2nd shop-owners would need higher prices to pay for expenses).Also, why do mayors make less than citizens?
Shaitan
der Besucher
The salary bonus is a per paycheck thing. It adjusts the base salary of 10.
Salary per turn chat is far MORE reliable than salary per game turn. In your example, Chieftess, the economy would stumble any time a turn chat was cut short and bust every time the turn chat went long.
It does not matter what salary scale we start with, we just need to start with a salary scale. Multiply every salary by 10. By 100. By 1000. All that does is put zeros at the end of the number. No matter what the scale is, prices of items must adjust to match. All these rules establish is our starting point.
All citizens make 10g per chat. Mayors make the standard 10 and an additional +1 salary bonus.
Salary per turn chat is far MORE reliable than salary per game turn. In your example, Chieftess, the economy would stumble any time a turn chat was cut short and bust every time the turn chat went long.
It does not matter what salary scale we start with, we just need to start with a salary scale. Multiply every salary by 10. By 100. By 1000. All that does is put zeros at the end of the number. No matter what the scale is, prices of items must adjust to match. All these rules establish is our starting point.
All citizens make 10g per chat. Mayors make the standard 10 and an additional +1 salary bonus.
But, wouldn't you be able to tell how many turns have been played? and use that...
Even still, I think the other expenses are too high...
80g per month. Things would move really slow in the Demogame RPg... In the other game, we played what, about 350? 400 turns? About 350-400g estimated. Incur 1 debt, and you might be working the entire game just to pay it off (and not be able to do other stuff).
Even still, I think the other expenses are too high...
80g per month. Things would move really slow in the Demogame RPg... In the other game, we played what, about 350? 400 turns? About 350-400g estimated. Incur 1 debt, and you might be working the entire game just to pay it off (and not be able to do other stuff).
Shaitan
der Besucher
I'm really having a hard time getting through here. What if 10g is worth a million dollars? Is 10g per chat enough? We are establishing an arbitrary scale. The prices will determine the value of any salary scale.
disorganizer
Deity
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you are right here, but maybe all people calculated their prices according to gp-turn rather than gp-chat as all thought we would talk about that... this also reflects in the founding costs of firms...
50g startup for a small service business with cheap prices will need 5 turn-chats=3 weeks to gain this money. and only if you a) dont travel b) dont eat and c) dont drink and d) live in public housing
50g startup for a small service business with cheap prices will need 5 turn-chats=3 weeks to gain this money. and only if you a) dont travel b) dont eat and c) dont drink and d) live in public housing
Stuck_as_a_Mac
Aptenodytes forsteri
when i created the gpt system, i assumed gpt meant g per every tc. so an average 5 turn tc would mean the average citizen made 50g per tc. sp the business price could be made in one tc, not 3 weeks. i had business in mind when i created this.
should i rephrase is as 10gptptc? (gold per turn per turn chat)
should i rephrase is as 10gptptc? (gold per turn per turn chat)
disorganizer
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here is the original proposal by eyrei, post #22 of the rpg-thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=356255#post356255
there he definitely talks of gpt as gold per game-turn. i reread almost the whole(!) thread and did not find any other definition of that one up to page 7 (including).
the calculation(!) of this will be done per turn-chat, so if a turnchat took 7 turns, a normal citizen will get 70 gold added to his/her account the day after the chat.
i definitely believe this is an error in the interpretation of gpt. we need urgent clarification by strider here!
to get back to the example of 16000gold: with 10 gold per turnchat per citizen, a single citizen would take 200 months to get there. if we assume 10 month for the game, you would need 20 citizen to reach it saving their money directly from the beginning to found the firm at the end of the game.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=356255#post356255
there he definitely talks of gpt as gold per game-turn. i reread almost the whole(!) thread and did not find any other definition of that one up to page 7 (including).
the calculation(!) of this will be done per turn-chat, so if a turnchat took 7 turns, a normal citizen will get 70 gold added to his/her account the day after the chat.
i definitely believe this is an error in the interpretation of gpt. we need urgent clarification by strider here!
to get back to the example of 16000gold: with 10 gold per turnchat per citizen, a single citizen would take 200 months to get there. if we assume 10 month for the game, you would need 20 citizen to reach it saving their money directly from the beginning to found the firm at the end of the game.
disorganizer
Deity
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spawned discussion about those rules:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30868
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30868
Shaitan
der Besucher
Yet another discussion thread. What, pray tell, is wrong with any of the 4 existing discussion threads?
I have never in my life run into such a massive pot of chaos. Definitely not one with a standing army ready to protect it from even a filament of order.
It amazes me how much feedback there is in a poll when there was virtually none while I was presenting the rules in progress.
I have never in my life run into such a massive pot of chaos. Definitely not one with a standing army ready to protect it from even a filament of order.
It amazes me how much feedback there is in a poll when there was virtually none while I was presenting the rules in progress.
i was feedbacking but at the time didnt know you had this idea all i think is that we need to hold of with ewlections until everything is sorted we accept constructive critiscm but not your doing it wrong get a move on stuff like that
Don't blame it on me! j/kUnfortunately, if you want to get this started along with the game, you only have few days. You could of course, target the start date to be after we discover currency...
Trying to establish a capitalist economy based on this RPG may be too difficult until you have designed and tested a very basic economy, or one where all businesses are state run. Then people can still get jobs, spend money on items that will enhance their 'character', and get used to the idea in general. I suggest a few businesses are designed, voted on, and implemented to supply the basic needs of the community without any individual having to open them. This obviously needs some work, and playtesting it should be quite helpful. Just my two cents.
Stuck_as_a_Mac
Aptenodytes forsteri
This is the banks interpertaiton on the whole gpt v gptptc mix up. WHen i created this, i intended on making it 100 gold per turn chat. also, ive reconsidered it and made it 5 gold for the standard. so thats 50 gold per turn chat, also lower the business prices.
SaaM
SaaM
Shaitan
der Besucher
The business prices are commensurate with making 10 gold per chat. Do you really want people to be able to open a new business after every single turn chat?
Stuck_as_a_Mac
Aptenodytes forsteri
tru, but every week if you do nothing you make 20 gold? add that to the 100 starting gold, and the average person makes less the 250gold per term.
I've noticed everyone's been shifting over to "RPG=businesses" idea. When the idea first spawned, I had a more society-based RPG. That is, each technology, and/or improvement would bring about something in the RPG.
For example:
2800 BC: Capital builds a ganary - this could open stuff about farming, or new farming methods. Bartering for goods. (currency hasn't been "discovered" yet)
2300 BC: Capital builds a temple - This could open threads for religous groups.
2000 BC: Capital builds a barracks - This could open threads for military and such.
Techs would also enable different aspects if the game. Currency would allow for an economic system based on currency instead of bartering.
BTW - bartering would be the most fun, since there are no limits on pricing. I could trade 3 trouts for 15 'poly bananas. Someone might trade 2 trouts for 10 peaches, and 2 bananas.
Banking would open up the banking economic system.
This means, we have to be prepared for the economic system. It also means we can't do anything "out of tech". That is, We can't drive a car to the next town until the industrial age, we can't by/sell planes until flight.
For example:
2800 BC: Capital builds a ganary - this could open stuff about farming, or new farming methods. Bartering for goods. (currency hasn't been "discovered" yet)
2300 BC: Capital builds a temple - This could open threads for religous groups.
2000 BC: Capital builds a barracks - This could open threads for military and such.
Techs would also enable different aspects if the game. Currency would allow for an economic system based on currency instead of bartering.
BTW - bartering would be the most fun, since there are no limits on pricing. I could trade 3 trouts for 15 'poly bananas. Someone might trade 2 trouts for 10 peaches, and 2 bananas.
Banking would open up the banking economic system.
This means, we have to be prepared for the economic system. It also means we can't do anything "out of tech". That is, We can't drive a car to the next town until the industrial age, we can't by/sell planes until flight.
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