RR14 - Wa shaa Allah
- Thread starter r_rolo1
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I am one turn from liberalism - the possibilities are economics (looks like we get the free GM), astronomy (most expensive and circle the world), chemistry (but no ships), or nationalism (no Taj).
In addition, what is our further tech plans?
I will continue tomorrow night to give some time for tech feedback. I really don't know how things flow in this E1000 scenario.
In addition, what is our further tech plans?
I will continue tomorrow night to give some time for tech feedback. I really don't know how things flow in this E1000 scenario.
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Well, hopefully we get some caravels out regardless. I like Astro though. It will open overseas trade routes once we discover the new world and we can take out Toku and Lizzy sooner. The GM might be nice but not sure if Free Market does us much good at the moment. Chem boosts are workshops and Nat leads to Curs. Curs would be nice. I'm torn.
r_rolo1
King of myself
The worst is that we can't delay Lib in here ... otherwise we could pick something better.
Anyway, the only option that IMHO is really out is Economics, since we will most likely still need castles ( atleast in Jerusalem ). We are in no position to leverage Astro for a while. To be hosnest I would like nat more , because of the draft and of being in the path to cuirs .... that would give us something to deal with Bizantium.
Anyway, the only option that IMHO is really out is Economics, since we will most likely still need castles ( atleast in Jerusalem ). We are in no position to leverage Astro for a while. To be hosnest I would like nat more , because of the draft and of being in the path to cuirs .... that would give us something to deal with Bizantium.
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1350 AD
It is time into mystery land. First time I've ever touched this scenario.
We have 17 cities and 21 workers. Not bad, but we still want more. There is a lot of jungle to deal with in India.
(IT) We get an event that gives us 273 toward liberalism. We don't have enough cash to debate the other option.
Peter dumps Justinian and is a free state again.
1360 AD
(IT) Gack - stuck in a war with Peter. I have enough worries watch the European front. Peter can hit us in to many spots.
WOW - the Taj Majal is already built in Rome.
1370 AD
We can see 6 units from HRE heading to Balajar with a single defender and now good way to get more units. I give up our world map to get peace.
I give Mansa education and get banking, drama, optics and WM. Now I need to figure out where to build some caravels. Our coastal cities are too limited, so I am force to build them in Mecca. That really sucks, as I want income multipliers in that city along with Moai.
We are one turn from liberalism. I paused here to get some input.
(IT) I snag nationalism for free, and start research on military tradition. I agreed that we need war oriented bonuses with this game until Europe is ours.
1380 AD
I revolt to rep, nationalism and merc. Our expenses drop a bit, while we get more out of our cities.
I already draft a few cities. We can't have enough units between the Russian war, and European troubles.
I give Qin sheep for silks. It might help relations to let us deal with Europe first.
1400 AD
Our first Christian missionary is useless.
(IT) First AP vote is to stop the war vs. Khan. I really don't care about a phony war, so I vote no.
1410 AD
We pop a hut in Africa and get a scout.
We have a GE, but nothing worth rushing at this point.
(IT) Mansa becomes a vassal of Justinian.
1420 AD
This time our Christian missionary does it job in Cairo.
(IT) Random event destroys buildings in Tripoli.
1440 AD
(IT) We are at war with Justinian.
Summary:
Our first caravel is moving down the African coast. The second one is moving toward Japan.
Let Cairo be a missionary pump. We want more control of the AP vote.
The war with Justinian is a MESS. His vassals of Mansa, and Sury joined the fight. Don't know what brought Ragnar in.
I added more troops for Jerusalem, a few more workers, and some buildings. Was a pretty bland turn until a real war started.
r_rolo1 - UP
lymond - on deck
ruff_hi
nocho
LKendter - just played
It is time into mystery land. First time I've ever touched this scenario.
We have 17 cities and 21 workers. Not bad, but we still want more. There is a lot of jungle to deal with in India.
(IT) We get an event that gives us 273 toward liberalism. We don't have enough cash to debate the other option.
Peter dumps Justinian and is a free state again.
1360 AD
(IT) Gack - stuck in a war with Peter. I have enough worries watch the European front. Peter can hit us in to many spots.
WOW - the Taj Majal is already built in Rome.
1370 AD
We can see 6 units from HRE heading to Balajar with a single defender and now good way to get more units. I give up our world map to get peace.
I give Mansa education and get banking, drama, optics and WM. Now I need to figure out where to build some caravels. Our coastal cities are too limited, so I am force to build them in Mecca. That really sucks, as I want income multipliers in that city along with Moai.
We are one turn from liberalism. I paused here to get some input.
(IT) I snag nationalism for free, and start research on military tradition. I agreed that we need war oriented bonuses with this game until Europe is ours.
1380 AD
I revolt to rep, nationalism and merc. Our expenses drop a bit, while we get more out of our cities.
I already draft a few cities. We can't have enough units between the Russian war, and European troubles.
I give Qin sheep for silks. It might help relations to let us deal with Europe first.
1400 AD
Our first Christian missionary is useless.
(IT) First AP vote is to stop the war vs. Khan. I really don't care about a phony war, so I vote no.
1410 AD
We pop a hut in Africa and get a scout.
We have a GE, but nothing worth rushing at this point.
(IT) Mansa becomes a vassal of Justinian.
1420 AD
This time our Christian missionary does it job in Cairo.
(IT) Random event destroys buildings in Tripoli.
1440 AD
(IT) We are at war with Justinian.
Summary:
Our first caravel is moving down the African coast. The second one is moving toward Japan.
Let Cairo be a missionary pump. We want more control of the AP vote.
The war with Justinian is a MESS. His vassals of Mansa, and Sury joined the fight. Don't know what brought Ragnar in.
I added more troops for Jerusalem, a few more workers, and some buildings. Was a pretty bland turn until a real war started.
r_rolo1 - UP
lymond - on deck
ruff_hi
nocho
LKendter - just played
r_rolo1
King of myself
Looks good ... will say more after seeing the save.
I can probably jump in here if grandkhalifah rolo is okay with that, I could play somewhere during the weekend most likely.
Had a short look at the save. MT looks logical, otherwise it's mainly about defending our position. Do we want to expand? I see spots around the southern nile (1N of that barb city or wherever) and also in India that don't look too bad. Not that they're urgent though.
I was also wondering about the globe somewhere (where?) and maybe NE. Or for now we sacrifice everything in the name of the holy army?
Had a short look at the save. MT looks logical, otherwise it's mainly about defending our position. Do we want to expand? I see spots around the southern nile (1N of that barb city or wherever) and also in India that don't look too bad. Not that they're urgent though.
I was also wondering about the globe somewhere (where?) and maybe NE. Or for now we sacrifice everything in the name of the holy army?
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That one city in India (B----) is good for globe or NE. Good chunk of workers farming that city to set it up for one of the two.
There are some nice spots I want at some point. South Africa has a gem & gold spot that looks very tasty.
With the Euro headaches I think our main expansion needs to be into Europe for now.
There are some nice spots I want at some point. South Africa has a gem & gold spot that looks very tasty.
With the Euro headaches I think our main expansion needs to be into Europe for now.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Nocho, if you want to play, go ahead. Just don't lose Jerusalem 
( I really can't see that happening with the defense lymong and Lk mounted , though )
The Nile spot is a good one, but I would be careful of expanding south while we are still in war with Mansa ... not that he is much of a threat, but he might be annoying enough... BTW there is also a decent spot in India or two to settle. We also should keep a eye in the area north of Iran, to see if Peter does not send us a surprise or two ( he really loves his mounted units in this scenario , dunno why )
What we could do was to take the Khmer out of the equation, but our forces are not in place for that Anyway our main foe is Byz , and IMHO we should not end this war without atleast breaking his ability to give us trouble ... this means atleast destroying his army and at best taking him down entirely. Even taking up to Constaninople would do wonders to ours defensive ability ...
Techwise ... finish MT , OFC
Then IMHO we should go Rifling. Cavs are huge in this scenario, since it is a big map and we have little time ... not mentioning that Pro Rifles are a pretty solid unit that can be drafted 
And after that ... Communism, maybe . We already are #1 in land and we are expecting to expand more , right ?
( I really can't see that happening with the defense lymong and Lk mounted , though )The Nile spot is a good one, but I would be careful of expanding south while we are still in war with Mansa ... not that he is much of a threat, but he might be annoying enough... BTW there is also a decent spot in India or two to settle. We also should keep a eye in the area north of Iran, to see if Peter does not send us a surprise or two ( he really loves his mounted units in this scenario , dunno why )
What we could do was to take the Khmer out of the equation, but our forces are not in place for that
Anyway our main foe is Byz , and IMHO we should not end this war without atleast breaking his ability to give us trouble ... this means atleast destroying his army and at best taking him down entirely. Even taking up to Constaninople would do wonders to ours defensive ability ...Techwise ... finish MT , OFC
Then IMHO we should go Rifling. Cavs are huge in this scenario, since it is a big map and we have little time ... not mentioning that Pro Rifles are a pretty solid unit that can be drafted And after that ... Communism, maybe . We already are #1 in land and we are expecting to expand more , right ? Played the set. It turned out relatively quiet actually.
The Russians never really came with anything serious and are willing to take peace throwing in some cash after I killed two stray units.
Sury unvassaled from Justinian, won't talk however, but never sent a unit. Mali is still a vassal of Justinian, but never sent anything either. Ragnar won't talk either.
Justinian had a small bunch of cataphracts at Jerusalem, while his lone treb kept pounding at the city defenses. It also had some maces, so couldn't really attack the stack very well, while Justinian couldn't really attack Jerusalem. Of course he finally did, auto-evaporating his units. That was it regarding Justinian's offensive ideas, we are now actually gaining the initiative. As I hand it over we have a reasonable stack south of the city 4N of Jerusalem. We could probably take the city now, but it'll cost units. Maybe better wait some turns to have more cuirs available.
As you can conclude we finished MT and went on with PP on the road to rifling.
Got quite some infra finished, but didn't build any new cities/settlers yet. I thought it better to first consolidate.
Mecca got Moai and HE. The city on the eastern tip of the Arabian peninsula (forgot the name) got the Globe. Beside Benares it has the best food output. For that obviously had to build a couple of theatres. Worth noting are the theates in Tunis and Tripoli. The fish got stolen by HRE, so quickly whipped theatres here to hire artists. Actually kept 2 in Tunis to get better hold of it. Jerusalem got a grocer and a bank and has a very nice gold output. Benares could also use a grocer and bank, but it's busy now on NE. It's fully farmed up, maybe both buildings could be whipped into NE or whatever. I was even tempted to rush NE with the GE we have hanging about, but refrained from that. May have to decide what has priority here, gold or GP multipliers.
We just popped a great priest from here, which I guess has "burn for GA" written all over himself.
I tentativley queued the foreign palace in Ujjain. With FP and some gold multipliers in Benares I think we can run in the green at 100% science.
Caravels reached Japan (went a bit too far south initially
) and the southern tip of South America. Circumnavigation, if available in this scenario (?), can probably be reached next set.
One GG is settled in Mecca, another one made a medic WE which I gave morale so it can keep up with cuirs, if needed.
The Russians never really came with anything serious and are willing to take peace throwing in some cash after I killed two stray units.
Sury unvassaled from Justinian, won't talk however, but never sent a unit. Mali is still a vassal of Justinian, but never sent anything either. Ragnar won't talk either.
Justinian had a small bunch of cataphracts at Jerusalem, while his lone treb kept pounding at the city defenses. It also had some maces, so couldn't really attack the stack very well, while Justinian couldn't really attack Jerusalem. Of course he finally did, auto-evaporating his units. That was it regarding Justinian's offensive ideas, we are now actually gaining the initiative. As I hand it over we have a reasonable stack south of the city 4N of Jerusalem. We could probably take the city now, but it'll cost units. Maybe better wait some turns to have more cuirs available.
As you can conclude we finished MT and went on with PP on the road to rifling.
Got quite some infra finished, but didn't build any new cities/settlers yet. I thought it better to first consolidate.
Mecca got Moai and HE. The city on the eastern tip of the Arabian peninsula (forgot the name) got the Globe. Beside Benares it has the best food output. For that obviously had to build a couple of theatres. Worth noting are the theates in Tunis and Tripoli. The fish got stolen by HRE, so quickly whipped theatres here to hire artists. Actually kept 2 in Tunis to get better hold of it. Jerusalem got a grocer and a bank and has a very nice gold output. Benares could also use a grocer and bank, but it's busy now on NE. It's fully farmed up, maybe both buildings could be whipped into NE or whatever. I was even tempted to rush NE with the GE we have hanging about, but refrained from that. May have to decide what has priority here, gold or GP multipliers.
We just popped a great priest from here, which I guess has "burn for GA" written all over himself.
I tentativley queued the foreign palace in Ujjain. With FP and some gold multipliers in Benares I think we can run in the green at 100% science.
Caravels reached Japan (went a bit too far south initially
) and the southern tip of South America. Circumnavigation, if available in this scenario (?), can probably be reached next set.One GG is settled in Mecca, another one made a medic WE which I gave morale so it can keep up with cuirs, if needed.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, got it
P.S This scenario does not change rules or adds/removes anything, so the working assumption should be that all things are as in a normal game with a "advanced" start In other words, yes, nocho, circumnavigation is open
P.S This scenario does not change rules or adds/removes anything, so the working assumption should be that all things are as in a normal game with a "advanced" start
In other words, yes, nocho, circumnavigation is open
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,078
Not mentioned in report, but I see we also made good progress in spreading Christianity. We are becoming a factor in AP elections.
One of these days we need to open up something good to rush with the GE.
I vote GA with the priest. A few more bucks from merging doesn't do us much.
Rolo gets to chose the exact time, but I agree with push through Turkey. At some point we need the control Europe to get rid of all the hostile civs.
One of these days we need to open up something good to rush with the GE.
I vote GA with the priest. A few more bucks from merging doesn't do us much.
Rolo gets to chose the exact time, but I agree with push through Turkey. At some point we need the control Europe to get rid of all the hostile civs.
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
I hope you guys don't mind if I run a succession game similar to this... if it helps, I had the idea independently.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Why would it matter ? Anyway, if I said something, I would definitely be a hypocrite, due to the number of variants I ripped out
In the end it will even be interesting to see the diferences ( if any ) in the final results
Anyway, if I said something, I would definitely be a hypocrite, due to the number of variants I ripped out In the end it will even be interesting to see the diferences ( if any
) in the final results
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
Well there will be a lot of differences. For one, you're a good player and I'm not.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I started my set by doing the oposite of what the previous player advised and took Trezibond:
Lost a cuir, far less than expected ...
I wanted to limit the scope of our wars to avoid nasty spillouts ... first was Peter:
Peter actually was massing trebs and knights in our northern border and it would not be easy to defend with so much devoted to the Bizantine front.
Next, was Sury, that had broken free:
To be honest, I would had marched over him , but he hs the irritating habit in this scenario to vassal fast ( pretty much as Mansa ), so I wanted to avoid that he peacevassaled to someone unrelated and grow our wars without our consent . And voila, in the next IBT he vassaled to QSH ...
AP vote :/
Ok, this vote was somewhat bad ... since i wanted to punch more over Justinian, but we had no realistical chances of breaking his defenses in Attalia ... and as I was expecting that the vote would pass barring a defy of mine, I decided to cut my losses and make peace with Just:
Atleast we cashed out ... oh and BTW with the maps gained in the peace deal we won the circumnavigation bonus...
One more peace deal, this time with Rags:
And we were in peace ... BTW , as you can see, we finished PP and started RP.
A new neighbour ....
We would also contact monty some turns later ...
Razed the barb city south of us, with the help of a chinese knight...
...
and reettled it in a more proper location:
Well to my shame it looks that I forgot to take a pic of the more important moment of the set: the moment where Mansa offered himself to be our vassal... I normally would had acepted it, but Mansa is running FR and he will be hard to take out if it without some pounding, so I declined it ... and he ALSO vassaled to QSH in the next turn :/ This means that we have QSH vassals in two sides of our empire...
Getting back a little , we got a GE ...
On ice ... what do we want to do with it ? :/
I ended the set in the turn our truce with Justinian ended ( 8 turns to the next AP vote ) ... and where I got RP:
End of set pics:
First, diplo web:
Still no DP in Europe ( Charlie LOVES to make a DP web in Europe that makes hard to attack a lone European power in this scenario ... ) , but it will not take long....
Tech screen:
Builds:
For the record , I finished NE in Benares last turn with a whip, but havent seen the MM there. Please do that before hitting enter.
And our Stack of cuirs:
Discussion:
I guess the big point is if we should start the war with Biz now or if we wait for rifling and cavs + rifles ... To be honest , I don't think that cuir stack is enough without some spy revolts and I haven't prepared the room for that ( shame on me ), but OTOH the DP diplo web that the Euros tend to create in this scenario will make things harder by the turn we wait. So what to do?
Other concern is what to do with QSH, but that is a more remote concern. Anyway, I think that, by the way this is looking we can only realistically expect to convert the americans peacefully, so we will most likely need to bash China as well. but that is a later concern.
Oh and please review the spec MM in Benares. I'm pretty much expecting a lot of priests there :/
Roster ( actualized )
r_rolo1 -just played
lymond - UP
ruff_hi - on deck ( hopefully )
LKendter
nocho
Spoiler :
Lost a cuir, far less than expected ...
I wanted to limit the scope of our wars to avoid nasty spillouts ... first was Peter:
Spoiler :
Peter actually was massing trebs and knights in our northern border and it would not be easy to defend with so much devoted to the Bizantine front.
Next, was Sury, that had broken free:
Spoiler :
To be honest, I would had marched over him , but he hs the irritating habit in this scenario to vassal fast ( pretty much as Mansa ), so I wanted to avoid that he peacevassaled to someone unrelated and grow our wars without our consent . And voila, in the next IBT he vassaled to QSH ...
AP vote :/
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Atleast we cashed out ... oh and BTW with the maps gained in the peace deal we won the circumnavigation bonus...
One more peace deal, this time with Rags:
Spoiler :
And we were in peace ... BTW , as you can see, we finished PP and started RP.
A new neighbour ....
Spoiler :
We would also contact monty some turns later ...
Razed the barb city south of us, with the help of a chinese knight...
Spoiler :
and reettled it in a more proper location:
Spoiler :
Well to my shame it looks that I forgot to take a pic of the more important moment of the set: the moment where Mansa offered himself to be our vassal... I normally would had acepted it, but Mansa is running FR and he will be hard to take out if it without some pounding, so I declined it ... and he ALSO vassaled to QSH in the next turn :/ This means that we have QSH vassals in two sides of our empire...
Getting back a little , we got a GE ...
Spoiler :
On ice ... what do we want to do with it ? :/
I ended the set in the turn our truce with Justinian ended ( 8 turns to the next AP vote ) ... and where I got RP:
Spoiler :
End of set pics:
First, diplo web:
Spoiler :
Still no DP in Europe ( Charlie LOVES to make a DP web in Europe that makes hard to attack a lone European power in this scenario ... ) , but it will not take long....
Tech screen:
Spoiler :
Builds:
Spoiler :
For the record , I finished NE in Benares last turn with a whip, but havent seen the MM there. Please do that before hitting enter.
And our Stack of cuirs:
Spoiler :
Discussion:
I guess the big point is if we should start the war with Biz now or if we wait for rifling and cavs + rifles ... To be honest , I don't think that cuir stack is enough without some spy revolts and I haven't prepared the room for that ( shame on me ), but OTOH the DP diplo web that the Euros tend to create in this scenario will make things harder by the turn we wait. So what to do?
Other concern is what to do with QSH, but that is a more remote concern. Anyway, I think that, by the way this is looking we can only realistically expect to convert the americans peacefully, so we will most likely need to bash China as well. but that is a later concern.
Oh and please review the spec MM in Benares. I'm pretty much expecting a lot of priests there :/
Roster ( actualized )
r_rolo1 -just played
lymond - UP
ruff_hi - on deck ( hopefully )
LKendter
nocho
>>Save Here<<
r_rolo1
King of myself
Updated the report.
I'm really unsure on going to war now or to wait :/
I'm really unsure on going to war now or to wait :/
