RtW: Add-On Pack 3 BETA for 3.17

[Chamboozer]

Ok, this is exceptionally strange. In the Europe Scenario (hitler) at least, the aircraft/naval/vehicle factories all require a goods factory before you can build them, but it is impossible to build the goods factory, as in, it's not even on the list.

Edit: now, 10 turns into the game I have the capability to build the goods factory. it costs 1600 Hammers and takes 96 turns in my best city. Is that the beggining of the industrialization building concept we mentioned earlier?

 

[Chamboozer]

Also, the Influence idea is a good one, but I think it has too many oddities right now to work effectively, For example, my troops were fighting the Polish near the Russian border, and when my tank killed their 2nd to last infantry in the last polish city, the squares around it lost too much influence, so the Russians took control of it because they were the next highest up in cultural percentage. I didn't have open borders with them, and that change kicked my troops all the way back to my nearest city, so I couldn't take the Polish city that turn.

 

[Dale]

Ok, this is exceptionally strange. In the Europe Scenario (hitler) at least, the aircraft/naval/vehicle factories all require a goods factory before you can build them, but it is impossible to build the goods factory, as in, it's not even on the list.

Yes, that is the production change. Industrial areas get the Goods Factory (to be able to build other factories) but non-industrial areas (like Africa) do not.

This was in response to the call to stop non-Industrial areas becomming production powerhouses.

 

[Chamboozer]

Well, none of Germany's cities start with the goods factory in 1936 Europe. havent looked at the other ones.

 

[Dale]

Also, the Influence idea is a good one, but I think it has too many oddities right now to work effectively, For example, my troops were fighting the Polish near the Russian border, and when my tank killed their 2nd to last infantry in the last polish city, the squares around it lost too much influence, so the Russians took control of it because they were the next highest up in cultural percentage. I didn't have open borders with them, and that change kicked my troops all the way back to my nearest city, so I couldn't take the Polish city that turn.

Yeah I've noticed some "odd" things with IDW too. So I'm dropping it.

 

[Dale]

Well, none of Germany's cities start with the goods factory in 1936 Europe. havent looked at the other ones.

Oh crap, did I forget to update some of the scenarios? I'll check after this current test run finishes.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[VeteranLurker]

I encountered the same influence issue in Global Scenario (Hitler/Hirohito). As USSR attacking the Baltics, I destroy a unit and gain 47% influence, but the immediate result was that Poland claimed the square and pushed all of my units back a space. This is vexing in game terms because now I have to go through a forest to get to Riga, slowing the assault down. If I win another battle, I may no longer have land access to Riga at all.

I think it is an idea worth exploring, but is there a way to adjust the borders only for the two countries involved?

 

[Dale]

Not really. The highest culture in the plot (no matter who it is) owns the plot.

I've removed it for the release, but I think Sangeli's model might prove better for RtW.

Also noticed no one is building many tanks, but heaps of workboats and cavalry. So I'll be trying to fix that too.

 

[Chamboozer]

Not really. The highest culture in the plot (no matter who it is) owns the plot.

I've removed it for the release, but I think Sangeli's model might prove better for RtW.

Also noticed no one is building many tanks, but heaps of workboats and cavalry. So I'll be trying to fix that too.

I noticed that onthe current version of my huge europe map. Swarms of spanish cavalry can wipe out an invading italian army pretty quickly...

 

[Omathaar]

Hm, but if IDW won't be in there, does that mean the French can culture bomb me again? Every single frickin game?

 

[Chamboozer]

Oh crap, did I forget to update some of the scenarios? I'll check after this current test run finishes.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Do you ever plan on implementing the 3 light tanks per civilization idea from my unit list? If not, you might want to consider toning down the advanced infantry for each nation so light tanks can compete, since they don't have an advanced version for themselves.

 

[Dale]

Hm, but if IDW won't be in there, does that mean the French can culture bomb me again? Every single frickin game?

No, culture pretty much doesn't exist in RtW now.

 

[VeteranLurker]

Is there a way to just give each civ some amount of workers and workboats to start the game, but not allow them to build any more (if that is a crisis for someone, perhaps add an event where a country gets a new worker once each year or something)? The AI uses workboats as scouts, which is unclear why since the map is entirely known. If they cannot be built, is there a way to make workboats captureable, like workers are?

Cavalry is a stickier issue. Starting a new game as USSR, I was sorely tempted to build cavalry instead of infantry since they are so much cheaper. Perhaps as a balancer, make cavalry less effective against armor and less effective attacking cities? Shouldn't cavalry also be more expensive to build than the typical basic infantry (i.e., the 5-strength infantry of the small countries, but dunno if there is an imbalance causing the AI to do this)?

 

[Chamboozer]

Is there a way to just give each civ some amount of workers and workboats to start the game, but not allow them to build any more (if that is a crisis for someone, perhaps add an event where a country gets a new worker once each year or something)? The AI uses workboats as scouts, which is unclear why since the map is entirely known. If they cannot be built, is there a way to make workboats captureable, like workers are?

Cavalry is a stickier issue. Starting a new game as USSR, I was sorely tempted to build cavalry instead of infantry since they are so much cheaper. Perhaps as a balancer, make cavalry less effective against armor and less effective attacking cities? Shouldn't cavalry also be more expensive to build than the typical basic infantry (i.e., the 5-strength infantry of the small countries, but dunno if there is an imbalance causing the AI to do this)?

Infantry is now 10-strength, and cavalry now serves as an offensive alternative to early infantry for non UU countries.

As for the workers, that would be horrifying for me. Even in peacetime, other nations can't help but constantly blow up my improvements with spies, so I need those workers

 

[VeteranLurker]

Well, that is the balance problem. You need a certain number of workers. But does the AI need as many as it builds? In my Open Mode game as USSR, where I have conquered all of my weak neighbors by Sept 1937, I have picked up at least 20 workers. Maybe some of them were there at start-up, but I know the USSR didn't have any at start-up, so I figure the AI has built them. This includes places like Greece, which really doesn't need workers (with like 5 workable plots) as much as it needs more defensive units. And the AI certainly does not need more workboats until someone has taken out one of its sea-resources (and even then, maybe they need a sub or destroyer first?). But the AI builds them anyway. In lieu of futzing with the AI, I am trying to think in terms of workable limitations to impose.

 

[Dale]

Found what the problem was. Due to all the unit stat changes the AI wasn't building factories. No factories means no advanced types of weapons. So all the AI could build was workers, workboats, cavalry and other basic weapon types.

Now I've got the AI to build factories again the problem has disappeared.

 

[Dale]

I have posted updated Maps on the first post. This fixes some of the problems noted above.

 

[Fagan]

Lol, I was whining that the mods was a lot too easy even at immortal level and now I realize I probably hadn't the last beta.

About the cultural change I haven't yet tried the beta3 but I feel it a bad idea because that will only remove options to the game. That bad things happen because of cultural stuff is a good thing, if everything is going right as you planned where's the fun? Also if it's named culture, I read more something like influence on local people, friendship with local, knowledge of the terrain, police control, and so on.

Going to try beta3 with new maps. Not clear what changes I'll find there but about production, I feel it good because it reduces the management but bad because the AI is too weak if the production level is low and economy management too easy.

 

[Fagan]

I have posted updated Maps on the first post. This fixes some of the problems noted above.

I got the beta3 and the new maps, in Pacific 41, Japan side, couldn't build any factory because I had no good factory but I couldn't build any good factory because of a research requirement not even in my search tree so impossible to research.

I wonder if only a map fix can be enough: If a good factory is destroyed by a bomber or something no more factories in the town? I started the Europe 39 map, German side, all towns seem to have a good factory... but if they got destroyed...

EDIT: Another problem; electricity factory brings electricity that bring nothing but 4 points of sickness (or 6?). Also when you take a town, most won't have the electricity factory and you will never build it because it is useless so those towns will get a significant advantage.

 

[Chamboozer]

Well, that is the balance problem. You need a certain number of workers. But does the AI need as many as it builds? In my Open Mode game as USSR, where I have conquered all of my weak neighbors by Sept 1937, I have picked up at least 20 workers. Maybe some of them were there at start-up, but I know the USSR didn't have any at start-up, so I figure the AI has built them. This includes places like Greece, which really doesn't need workers (with like 5 workable plots) as much as it needs more defensive units. And the AI certainly does not need more workboats until someone has taken out one of its sea-resources (and even then, maybe they need a sub or destroyer first?). But the AI builds them anyway. In lieu of futzing with the AI, I am trying to think in terms of workable limitations to impose.

Most of the nations that build work boats (in my experience) are the ones without oil, and thus that is their only naval unit.

Also Dale, as a general suggestion, you should make Transport boats slightly longer to build, and not require oil so nations without oil can get around more easily.


Theres also something else I noticed. Bitter winter only affects your aircraft when bombing units, attacking the defenses/civil/factories won't cause the aircraft to fail the mission due to weather. I noticed this in BETA2, and I don't know if its still in BETA3.