Rule Discussion:: CivAssist II

[DaveShack]

CAII doesn't show any resources or gold either. It does help find resources in explored territory, and doesn't show anything about non-explored. A good player can determine everying that it shows about techs, by the aforementioned methods of watching scores and the FA screen every turn.

The difference between using it and not using it:

If using it, it is very easy to find out what techs the other team has, but there is no advantage because everyone can use it.

If not using it, it is very difficult to find out what techs the other team has. There is no advantage because everyone can use the close observation techniques to discover the same things.

If you think keeping very detailed and precise records of what appears on the in-game interface from turn to turn is fun, then not using the utility should be your choice. If you find keeping detailed records a tedious and useless exercize except that not doing it puts you at a disadvantage, then choose to use the utility.

I hate detailed record keeping. It's a game and should be played by gamers, not accountants, so I'd vote to allow the utility.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

If people feel the need to go onto the close observation accountancy mode, I believe it is their loss. Even with CA2, there's quite a bit of accountancy involved if one wishes to go around figuring global tech rates, let alone deeper economical data on any given civ. It's (almost) just a nicer, more efficient GUI compared to the game's menus with respect to this issue.

I'm against, simply because it has been overused last time IMHO, and partly because the vast majority of us live in free countries where losing (absurdly much of) one's time by keeping detailed records is not a sin or crime - and I think they're welcome to do so.

 

[zyxy]

Wasn't this spoiler problem fixed sometime ago?

I remember I noticed it last game. And Ainwood fixed it, if I am not mistaken.

Are you running the latest version?

 

[General_W]

...The difference between using it and not using it:

If using it, it is very easy to find out what techs the other team has, but there is no advantage because everyone can use it.

If not using it, it is very difficult to find out what techs the other team has. There is no advantage because everyone can use the close observation techniques to discover the same things.

...

I hate detailed record keeping. It's a game and should be played by gamers, not accountants, so I'd vote to allow the utility.

Here! Here!

My sentiments exactly.

I used CivAssist in the first MTDG, and don't recal any "spoiler" information in the latest version. Maybe I missed it?
If I'm wrong, then sure, ban it. That's only fair.

Otherwise, I'm of the opinion it should be allowed.

 

[greekguy]

Keep CAII! if someone can show me an example of spoiler info from CAII, then by all means ban it. but if no one can do so, then i don't see any other reason not to allow CAII to be used as a game utility.

 

[Whomp]

OK my bad. As long as gold, gpt, luxs and resources then we're all good. I'd prefer this information be undisclosed. The tech thing is really minor.

 

[aluka]

What Daveshack has said has convinced me that it should be used. Provided there aren't any major spoilers. Saves you from having to load up the game to look up information as well.

 

[fe3333au]

It also seems that there are members on all teams who are users of this programme so there will be no disadvantage ... therefore let's use it.

 

[CommandoBob]

If I read things correctly, using CAII is not a problem.

What of MapStat?

(FYI - My PC is older: 500 MHz, 128 MB RAM. CAII and C3C do not run well at the same time. MS Word and C3C don't run together at all. C3C and MapStat do work together quite well. I can use CAII to examine a save; I cannot use it while I play.)

 

[DaveShack]

Hmm, it's been more than a year so this is a bit fuzzy, but didn't a new version of MapStat come out around the same time as the last version of CAII, with essentially the same anti-spoiler features?

If this doesn't have a definitive answer from someone else by Friday afternoon, I'll download and check MapStat's info.

 

[TimBentley]

Mapstat seems to show no spoiler information. Just make sure everyone has the latest versions of CAII and Mapstat.

 

[Tubby Rower]

The problem with that rule is that we'll have to post updates anytime that Ainwood updates CA2.

I think last game it was updated 2 or 3 times. I don't check daily to see if it's updated.

 

[azzaman333]

The problem with that rule is that we'll have to post updates anytime that Ainwood updates CA2.

I think last game it was updated 2 or 3 times. I don't check daily to see if it's updated.

Well there is a high chance that at least 1 CA2 user in the MTDG is subscribed to the CA2 thread, and would be able to inform everyone when there is an update. As it happens, i am subscribed to the CA2 thread, but I wouldn't actually be able to guarantee my laziness wouldn't stop me from informing you all.

And it surely isn't too hard to get people to download the latest version if they are planning to use it for the MTDG?

 

[Tubby Rower]

sometimes it's too hard for memembers to post. I wouldn't trust myself to go and check any if I'm using the latest version.

if it is allowed then I would prefer that we stick with the version that it is now. That way no one would be in violation of the rule.

But I still think that if you need CA2 to play one turn then you need help.

 

[peter grimes]

If it is allowed (as I think it should be), then it is the responsibility of the user to make sure they are using the latest version. Simple.

That's not too much to ask. And if it is, then that player obviously isn't responsible enough to use the utility responsibly.

Please, this is not that difficult!

 

[Tubby Rower]

meh.. could we just vote on it?

 

[jb1964]

No external readers. That's my $0.02. It would enhance diplomacy challenges.

 

[Elear]

Come on, do we really have to get this complicated?

The less rules we can get by with and still have a good game, the better.

Either let people use their CivAssist2s and Mapstats, since so-called 'spoiler' information is minimal anyway. Or, just ban it all together and call case-closed.

Either way, be quick about it, there are far more important discussions and polls that need to take place.

That's my opinion.

-Elear

 

[Ginger_Ale]

But I still think that if you need CA2 to play one turn then you need help.

This is where I stand, but from reading this thread, it seems people are pretty divided. Perhaps we just should have a user-by-user (e.g. non-team) poll to determine this (we can just set up, say, a 3 day poll, to ensure it'll end quick enough).

 

[Elear]

That seems like a good idea Ginger.

And I stand on the side of there's no need for such programs when you discuss each turn as a team. What is the team for then? To look pretty?

-Elear