[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine--Act 3: Ride of the Valkyries

[EvaDK]

If you think losing half your country (or 25%) is a win, then I hope your country won't win in a war

Russian forces currently occupy something like 16-18% of Ukrainian territory.

https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/zdpxokdxzvx/

As for Finland, they traded roughly 9% of their territory for independence. It paid off, as Finland is today considered one of the best places to live in the World. Stalin's invasion of Finland was disastrous; not only did the USSR lose almost a quarter million men but the underwhelming performance of the Red Army in the 1940 war, was a key factor that convinced Hitler that he could successfully invade and defeat the USSR, if he moved swiftly. He invaded in 1941 and the rest is history.

 

[Kyriakos]

Not too sure of that - there are any number of nation states in the EU that do not border the sea, and others that do,

but it does not seem to be decisive for anything as far I can see...

The Black Sea is a a somewhat special case anyhow, hardly a "gateway to the world",

both the Turks and the Russians can block any commercial shipping there without much effort.

I mean that on the west side the border to different entities is to the sea, while on the east there are countries there.

 

[Snowygerry]

Just recently found out that a large part of those "Russians" that died in Finland were in fact Ukrainians -

they are very reluctant to send the Muscovites to the battlefield to die, aren't they - surely such things do not go unnoticed over there

 

[EnglishEdward]

Russia simply doesn't have modern weapons to spare the local population.

I am not sure that anyone has modern weapons that reliably distinguish between military and civilians.

Thing is if a village/town/city with both civilians and military is seriously attacked, both civilians and military get killed.

That is a different thing from murdering civilians after the village/town/city is captured.

 

[Kyriakos]

Just recently found out that a large part of those "Russians" that died in Finland were in fact Ukrainians -

they are very reluctant to send the Muscovites to the battlefield to die, aren't they - surely such things do not go unnoticed over there

That always happens. Recall the arguably not very loyal to ww1 Germany, danish subjects annexed in 1864. Sent to the frontlines in a cynical win-win.

 

[Verbose]

I'd argue that was still a win for Russia.

I'd say still a win for Finland – they managed to avoid becoming a Soviet puppet, and maintained national sovereignty – at a time when the great powers of the day were all about the conquest and annexation of smaller state, forcibly shifting borders through war. That was accepted principle at the time – you keep what you can take or hold – and nations unable to do not deserve a state.

Which is what Putin wants us all to revert to, on the assumption Russia will simply go shopping like that. That it will not be allowed to work out like that is a big part of the point that is attempted to be made to Russia.

 

[saamohod]

they are very reluctant to send the Muscovites to the battlefield to die, aren't they - surely such things do not go unnoticed over there

Current statistics of Russia's losses shows interesting (although unsurprising) picture. The vast majority of killed combatants come from "the province", especially the depressive and poor ethnic areas (Buryatia, Tuva, Dagestan etc). Among thousands of confirmed dead there are probably single-digit numbers that come from the Metropole (Moscow, St. Petersburg).

 

[EnglishEdward]

That always happens. Recall the arguably not very loyal to ww1 Germany, danish subjects annexed in 1864. Sent to the frontlines in a cynical win-win.

That would be why Vlad has been sending in the Chechens.

 

[Kyriakos]

That would be why Vlad has been sending in the Chechens.

It might. Or they just are better at fighting muslims ( mischief - I mean elusive mercs on the other side, created by the side that provides drones too).

 

[Snowygerry]

That always happens. Recall the arguably not very loyal to ww1 Germany, danish subjects annexed in 1864. Sent to the frontlines in a cynical win-win.

During the 80 years' war the Spanish recruited Italians, followed by English, Irish and Burgundian troops; then Germans, then finally local Walloons, to join the "army of Flanders".

Usually a sign of a dying empire.

 

[EvaDK]

That always happens. Recall the arguably not very loyal to ww1 Germany, danish subjects annexed in 1864. Sent to the frontlines in a cynical win-win.

The 1864 Second Schleswig War was initiated by Danish ultra nationalists, persuading a weak King and Parliament in the righteousness in their cause (demand of territory from Prussia). Schleswig and Holstein were never part of Denmark proper. The war ended with Danish defeat and loss of territory.

When Germany lost WW1, Denmark was offered back some of these 'lost' territories by the victors. The Danish Government rejected the offer and instead suggested that two referendums were held in the regions in question. It ended with the Northern part voting for reunification with Denmark (Southern Jutland today) and the Southern part voting to remain German (Schleswig-Holstein today) in 1920. The people living there got to decide for themselves in an entirely free and fair vote.

The 1864 defeat might have lost Denmark territory, but we won something much more valuable; a new identity to build upon and the demise of Danish ultra-nationalism as a influential political movement. Good riddance.

 

[Kyriakos]

During the 80 years' war the Spanish recruited Italians, followed by English, Irish and Burgundian troops; then Germans, then finally local Walloons, to join the "army of Flanders".

Usually a sign of a dying empire.

Russia isn't an empire currently, though. Isn't its population by vast majority ethnic russians?
A very quick (1 second) googling tells me it is 81% ethnic russian, with the next largest group having 3.9%. That is complete dominance and not an empire.

The 1864 Second Schleswig War was initiated by Danish ultra nationalists, persuading a weak King and Parliament in the righteousness in their cause (demand of territory from Prussia). Schleswig and Holstein were never part of Denmark proper. The war ended with Danish defeat and loss of territory.

When Germany lost WW1, Denmark was offered back some of these 'lost' territories by the victors. The Danish Government rejected the offer and instead suggested that two referendums were held in the regions in question. It ended with the Northern part voting for reunification with Denmark (Southern Jutland today) and the Southern part voting to remain German (Schleswig-Holstein today) in 1920. The people living there got to decide for themselves in an entirely free and fair vote.

The 1864 defeat might have lost Denmark territory, but we won something much more valuable; a new identity to build upon and the demise of Danish ultra-nationalism as a influential political movement. Good riddance.

It also gave you a tv series with supernatural elements

 

[Snowygerry]

Is that for the RF or just Russia ? Sounds improbable.

 

[Kyriakos]

source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/russia-population

 

[EnglishEdward]

During the 80 years' war the Spanish recruited Italians, followed by English, Irish and Burgundian troops; then Germans, then finally local Walloons, to join the "army of Flanders".

Usually a sign of a dying empire.

That is merely tactical.

These days I could argue that it is more done strategically with the declining USA empire recruiting Ukrainians en masse to fight Russia.

After Iraq and Afghanistan, British youth is becoming reluctant to enlist.

And all the while the Chinese are laughing.

 

[Snowygerry]

View attachment 627442

source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/russia-population

Appears to be just Russia though - not the RF ?

 

[keli]

View attachment 627442

source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/russia-population

Good, so let's keep it that way

 

[Kyriakos]

Appears to be just Russia though - not the RF ?

Google tells me they are one and the same (?)

 

[EvaDK]

It also gave you a tv series with supernatural elements

But of course. Danes are super cute and natural beer connoisseurs.

And all the while the Chinese are laughing.

Not as loud as the Americans when observing that adorable toy fleet China is building (from an American POV), I reckon.

 

[Kyriakos]

But of course. Danes are super cute and natural beer connoisseurs.

I wouldn't call Mads "cute"