[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine--Act 3: Ride of the Valkyries

Status
Not open for further replies.

Birdjaguar

Hanafubuki
Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
51,544
Location
Albuquerque, NM
And we are back.

Please keep all of these in mind when you post:
  • War news and events
  • No personal attacks
  • Civil discussion
  • Respect for different opinions
  • Ignore sidebar discussions
  • Don't refight pre invasion battles
Thank you all for keeping this important and difficult topic going reasonably smoothly. :)

Moderator Action: Currently, some of you are thread banned, from the now closed thread, for poor posting of one sort or another. We are granting you a reprieve since those bans will not automatically carry over to this new thread. But if you repeat those poor posting habits in this new thread, you will be banned again for longer and likely without notice. Behave please.
 

Birdjaguar

Hanafubuki
Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
51,544
Location
Albuquerque, NM
In Speech, Putin Shows Reluctance in Demanding Too Much of Russians

May 9, 2022, 11:43 a.m. ETMay 9, 2022
1:32Putin Says Invading Ukraine was “Inevitable”
In his annual Victory Day address, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia defended the decision to invade Ukraine and falsely depicted his country’s actions as an extension of the struggle against Nazism in Europe.CreditCredit...Maxim Shemetov/Reuters
He made no claim of victory or “mission accomplished” and no promise that the fight in Ukraine could end soon. But as President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia spoke in Moscow’s Red Square on Monday, he also made no call for new sacrifice or mobilization, no threat of a nuclear strike, no stark pronouncement about an existential war with the West.

Instead Mr. Putin, speaking on Russia’s most important secular holiday, delivered a message for the broader Russian public: that they could keep on living their lives. The military would keep fighting to rid Ukraine, in his false telling, of “torturers, death squads and Nazis,” but Mr. Putin did not make any new attempt to prepare his people for a wider conflict.

The calibrated tone showed that while some Western officials had predicted Mr. Putin would use the May 9 holiday to double down on the war, he remains cautious about demanding too much from regular Russians. The only policy announcement Mr. Putin made in his speech, in fact, was aimed at assuaging the pain directly caused by the war — a decree to provide additional aid to the children of killed and wounded soldiers.

“He has developed a certain sense of what is and is not possible,” said Gleb O. Pavlovsky, a close adviser to Mr. Putin until falling out with him in 2011, explaining why the Russian leader does not appear ready to order a mass mobilization. “He understands that no propaganda can by itself force someone to die.”

“On the day of victory over Nazism, we are fighting for a new victory,” Mr. Zelensky said as he was shown walking alone through the streets of Kyiv, past government buildings protected with barriers and barbed wire.

Together, the speeches showed both leaders digging in for what could be a protracted battle, as Ukrainian troops, armed with heavy weapons supplied by the West, fight Russian forces along a 300-mile front in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine. After weeks of intense combat, Russia has made only sporadic gains.

The Ukrainian military said that the Russian army had deployed 19 battalion tactical groups — each with as many as 1,000 troops — to the Russian border town of Belgorod in preparation for an assault to slow a Ukrainian counteroffensive around Kharkiv and to break through Ukrainian defensive lines elsewhere in the region.

In Warsaw, protesters chanting “fascists” splashed red liquid on the face of Russia’s ambassador to Poland, Sergei Andreev, as he and other Russian diplomats visited a memorial honoring Red Army soldiers killed in World War II. A spokeswoman for Russia’s Foreign Ministry, Maria V. Zakharova, called the protesters “admirers of neo-Nazism.’’

Western and Ukrainian officials had speculated that Mr. Putin might use the martial pomp of the May 9 ceremony to officially declare Russia is in a state of war and expand military conscription, allowing him to increase his depleted forces that have faced so many struggles on the battlefield.

But analysts said that a mass mobilization of the Russian public, an increase in conscription or a switch to an austere wartime economy would undermine the balance he had struck and bring the reality of war into many more households. Mr. Putin pledged early on that conscripts — young Russian men who are required to complete a year of military service — would not be sent into battle. After many were, Mr. Putin ordered an investigation.

“It could turn out that people are prepared to support the war while sitting at home in front of the TV, as they say, but that they are not at all prepared to go and fight,” Mr. Pavlovsky said. “That’s the central position that Putin understands and is trying not to touch.”

The choreography of the parade itself seemed aimed at the comfortably familiar: troops and vehicles marched and rolled through Red Square as they had in previous years and did not show the “Z” symbol that has come to represent support for the Ukraine war.

Even during Monday’s celebrations, glimmers of unrest inside Russia continued to show. OVD-Info, a rights group, reported detentions of scattered protesters across the country. It distributed a photo of a man who was later arrested for having placed a box of chocolates on a central Moscow bench beside a handwritten sign that read: “Have some candy if you’re against the war.”

In the most dramatic act of protest, two Russian journalists at Lentu.ru, a pro-Kremlin news website, suddenly filled its home page with antiwar articles, including one that declared “Putin must go.”

“Do not fear!” the article, posted briefly on the website, stated. “Do not be silent! Resist! You are not alone, and we are many! The future is ours!” In his speech, Mr. Putin rehashed old arguments — that the invasion was the “only correct decision” because, he falsely claimed, Ukraine was planning a “punitive invasion” of its Russian-controlled territory, and because NATO was building up troops near Russia’s borders.

But some analysts warned that even if Mr. Putin defied some Western expectations of escalation, the threat remained high in the coming weeks. Tatiana Stanovaya, who has long studied Mr. Putin and founded the France-based political analysis firm R. Politik, said the Russian president likely had seen the Victory Day parade as the wrong time and place to signal an escalation — especially because many Russians were still enjoying the country’s traditional holiday period of early May.

She said the greatest danger lay in Mr. Putin’s frustration at the West’s arms deliveries to Ukraine, and that he might use Russia’s vast nuclear arsenal to deter it, by detonating a single weapon to demonstrative effect. In Mr. Putin’s narrative, the West is goading Ukraine into resistance in order to weaken Russia; late last month, Mr. Putin warned countries that “create a strategic threat to Russia” could expect “retaliatory strikes” that would be “lightning fast.”

“In his understanding, the problems that Russia is facing in Ukraine right now stem not from a lack of forces but from the West arming Ukraine,” Ms. Stanovaya said. “He’s at war with the West, so he has to show the West that it must retreat. And he has to show it in a way that really scares everyone.”

Mr. Putin reserved his toughest language in Monday’s speech for the United States. It was the United States and its “minions” that were using Ukrainian “neo-Nazis” to threaten Russia, he said, forcing him to respond militarily. And it was the United States, he said, that was “humiliating” the world after the fall of the Soviet Union by proclaiming its “exceptionalism.”

“Without a Western retreat, there’s no way Putin is going to win the war now,” Ms. Stanovaya said.
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,810
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
In Speech, Putin Shows Reluctance in Demanding Too Much of Russians

May 9, 2022, 11:43 a.m. ETMay 9, 2022
1:32Putin Says Invading Ukraine was “Inevitable”
In his annual Victory Day address, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia defended the decision to invade Ukraine and falsely depicted his country’s actions as an extension of the struggle against Nazism in Europe.CreditCredit...Maxim Shemetov/Reuters

Lack of enthusiasm for the war it seems.

Easy when you're not the ones in the trenches. Potemkin parade ground soldiers not the best perhaps.
 

Birdjaguar

Hanafubuki
Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
51,544
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Russian TV was hacked today so all the shows were anti war announcements.

Lenta.Ru news site was hacked today with all anti war and anti Putin headlines. The headlines then linked to articles denouncing Putin.

The Lenta hackers then revealed who they are and admitted what they had done. They were former Lenta employees living outside Russia.
 

citizenofdoom

Prince
Joined
Jun 24, 2017
Messages
355
upload_2022-5-10_8-45-9.png

It has tag putin but not tag zelensky :(

Moderator Action: Fixed! Birdjaguar
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EvaDK

Emperor
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
1,434
Location
Denmark
Rumors have emerged that a possible reason why the Russian Air Force was a no show on Victory Day, is because some pilots have apparently been suspected of disobeying orders by dropping their bombs in fields and woods, instead of the intended targets in Ukrainian cities. As a consequence, Putin cancelled the Air Forces participation in the parade. Rumor only.
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,810
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
Well the Ukrainian airforce and Bayraktar drones were destroyed in the early days of the war. According to Russia.

Hmmn I don't understand.
 

Akka

Moody old mage.
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
14,962
Location
Facing my computer.
There is pretty often release of supposedly "intercepted Russian calls" (from Russian soldiers in Ukraine to their friends/family), but I've always been rather suspect of their authenticity, as it's pretty hard to prove.
Like for exemple these calls. I wonder if some native speakers could at least check if they sound Russian and normal or if the accents don't fit/if they feel like they're reading a script ?
 

r16

not deity
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
10,226
american act of damage control continues . On various fronts . There are no organized forces on the ground . Just mercenaries (which is a very bad word if used for those on the Ukranian side) and volunteers . Who just fool around if they are of the Romantics . Professionals on the other hand shame themselves hard . Accustomed to easy going in the so called Wars against Terror , anytime a bullet whizzez past , they go down to ground and call for massive fire support , upto B-52s . Which are obviously not there . And the amazing lT techs of Ukraine have done wonders . Equipped with cellphones and Starlink terminals they locate targets and arrange for their destruction in a mere 30 seconds while it will take an hour if the whole "chain" was done by the US Military . Of course , Elon Musk . The next king of the world . As like obviously he won't be colonizing Mars by 2026 , because who would have known there would be Russia to colonize ..? ln some more clearer style , instead of just loan sharks .

and interesting turn of events . Starting to doubt Ukranians now ?
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,810
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
There is pretty often release of supposedly "intercepted Russian calls" (from Russian soldiers in Ukraine to their friends/family), but I've always been rather suspect of their authenticity, as it's pretty hard to prove.
Like for exemple these calls. I wonder if some native speakers could at least check if they sound Russian and normal or if the accents don't fit/if they feel like they're reading a script ?
It's why I don't post them.

Some are legit I suspect but yeah we can't verify them.
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,810
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
american act of damage control continues . On various fronts . There are no organized forces on the ground . Just mercenaries (which is a very bad word if used for those on the Ukranian side) and volunteers . Who just fool around if they are of the Romantics . Professionals on the other hand shame themselves hard . Accustomed to easy going in the so called Wars against Terror , anytime a bullet whizzez past , they go down to ground and call for massive fire support , upto B-52s . Which are obviously not there . And the amazing lT techs of Ukraine have done wonders . Equipped with cellphones and Starlink terminals they locate targets and arrange for their destruction in a mere 30 seconds while it will take an hour if the whole "chain" was done by the US Military . Of course , Elon Musk . The next king of the world . As like obviously he won't be colonizing Mars by 2026 , because who would have known there would be Russia to colonize ..? ln some more clearer style , instead of just loan sharks .

and interesting turn of events . Starting to doubt Ukranians now ?

Most of us haven't posted Ukrainian sources for the reasons you posted.

Even video footage has been edited and/or lacks context.

Some of it's useful eg it goes upb12 hours before normal media picks up on it presumably while they verify things.

Also various experts and talking heads on Putin's mind and Russian intentions take with a grain of salt.
 

saamohod

Deity
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
2,297
Location
Unoccupied Ukraine
There is pretty often release of supposedly "intercepted Russian calls" (from Russian soldiers in Ukraine to their friends/family), but I've always been rather suspect of their authenticity, as it's pretty hard to prove.
Like for exemple these calls. I wonder if some native speakers could at least check if they sound Russian and normal or if the accents don't fit/if they feel like they're reading a script ?

Not only they sound 100% authentic and natural, as a Russian-speaking myself I can immediately pick different accents that only exist in Russia. Nobody here in Ukraine speaks the way they do, even in Russian-speaking regions.

As I said, the conversations sound completely natural, no red flags. Of course it cannot be proof of anything, you can't deny the existence of phenomenal voice actors. But the thing is, even in Russian movies I never saw or heard such an impeccable acting.
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,810
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
Not only they sound 100% authentic and natural, as a Russian-speaking myself I can immediately pick different accents that only exist in Russia. Nobody here in Ukraine speaks the way they do, even in Russian-speaking regions.

As I said, the conversations sound completely natural, no red flags. Of course it cannot be proof of anything, you can't deny the existence of phenomenal voice actors. But the thing is, even in Russian movies I never saw or heard such an impeccable acting.

Even if they're all authentic they have cherry picked what's ones to release.

Makes sense all things considered just something to be aware of.
 

red_elk

Deity
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
18,167
For you "draft notice" looked completely natural too.
There are plenty of people living in Russia who speaks pure Ukrainian and vice versa. Thousands of emigrants and their relatives.
 

r16

not deity
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
10,226
thanks for the kind explanations like ı wasn't asking for anyhow . The point being the destruction of Russia taking place in various but CONTINIOUS phases . The Americans have "destroyed" Russian conventional military , because just watch the internet , and they are now picking on unconventional stuff and they want the rest of Russians passively watch . No Russian generals will possibly die today , but yeah , can't tell about tomorrow . You know , just like the lraqi stuff . So , quoting the whole text for ease or just one sentence , the last one possibly is not justification enough for the CFC phase of doubting Ukraine for today ?
 

saamohod

Deity
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
2,297
Location
Unoccupied Ukraine
These videos might be entertaining as well.
Even for those who don't speak Russian one can watch the body language, tone of voice and other non-verbal signals and make one's own conclusion.



 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,810
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
These videos might be entertaining as well.
Even for those who don't speak Russian one can watch the body language, tone of voice and other non-verbal signals and make one's own conclusion.



Once again though they have xhery picked what to release. Being a PoW is also stressful so there's an element of duress is involved.

Some of those videos are interesting but but keep that in mind.
 

saamohod

Deity
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
2,297
Location
Unoccupied Ukraine
Once again though they have xhery picked what to release.

I never denied it.

Being a PoW is also stressful so there's an element of duress is involved.

Exactly. I never claimed PoWs are having a vacation after they've been caught. This can be seen in the behavior of the PoW and the interviewer and it only proves the authenticity of the videos.
 

Gedemon

Modder
Super Moderator
Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
11,027
Location
France
thanks for the kind explanations like ı wasn't asking for anyhow . The point being the destruction of Russia taking place in various but CONTINIOUS phases . The Americans have "destroyed" Russian conventional military , because just watch the internet , and they are now picking on unconventional stuff and they want the rest of Russians passively watch . No Russian generals will possibly die today , but yeah , can't tell about tomorrow . You know , just like the lraqi stuff . So , quoting the whole text for ease or just one sentence , the last one possibly is not justification enough for the CFC phase of doubting Ukraine for today ?
Yeah, we generally doubt what we are fed from various media, while Russians people, the various people posting from troll farm (ie not you, not here) or being influenced by their propaganda seem to never ever doubt the Russian narrative.

Personally I've seen a lot of videos from both side showing various attacks, and something I always try to keep in mind is what is not shown in those videos. Hit doesn't mean kill. And more video from confirmed kills on one side may just mean the other dont have as many smartphone or internet access. Or is more professional. And is not proof of who's winning or losing the war.

The problem is more than Russia media has proven again, again, again, again, again and again that they were far less trustworthy.

edit: removed assumption
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom