Russian-U.S. "Tension" : Cold War II?

[Mirc]

2) There was nothing wrong with the Czech communist government, therefor nothing to complain about the invasion.

Are you being serious or sarcastic??

 

[Commy]

It's not just oil, either; how about Georgia, where Russia has occupied half the country in blatant disregard for international law?

We have international compact with Georgia. According it Russian forces have to stay in some regions of Georgia as peacekeepers.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Are you being serious or sarcastic??

In what sense?
I am serious that if the Czech Communist government was brutal and oppressive (which it clearly was) then there is a weight of history is upon them. It applies to Axis collaborators (France, Slovakia, Croatia), so it should apply to Communist collaborators as well.
My point is merely that if your going to argue that Czechloslovakia has no guilt, then it follows that it has no crime.

 

[Winner]

I am well awar of the situation, but you can really take two positions basically
1) The Czech communist government was oppressive and Brutal, making the invasion wrong, but your former government oppressive and Brutal
2) There was nothing wrong with the Czech communist government, therefor nothing to complain about the invasion.

Don't embarass yourself by your lack of knowledge, please.

Soviets invaded in 1968 because Czechoslovakia was undergoing a change from communist dictatorship to a democratic country. They didn't want that to happen, so they crushed the "counter-revolution" in its beginnings.

Period between 1948-1968 was terrible. Czechs wanted to change that, and were invaded. That's when our responsibility ended, because we simply lost any chance to make our own decisions. What's so hard to understand?

At the risk of repeating myself, you seem to be quite uppity about the position your country has always had, so I don't see why you have such demands of the Russians.

I am a bit lost, what are you trying to prove, again?

This is not a thread about my country and quite frankly, you obviously don't know much about it, besides it used to be a part of the Eastern Bloc.

To disappoint you, I never dreamed about my country's greatness or similar crap. People living in small countries usually don't suffer from such illusions, in contrast to citizens of bigger countries, who are so easily fooled, sometimes.

What I said is, that my country is not in Russian sphere of influence. It stopped being so in 1989. I am sick of people who think that bigger countries, like Russia, somehow deserve a bunch of satellite states they can bully.

Right, you don't care because it doesn't effect you.

OK, how many democratic countries were invaded by the US in Latin America? US is a democratic country. That doesn't mean everything it does is good and right, but it is certainly not as bad or wrong as what Russians have done in their backyard.

A pawn for the great powers of course!

Sure, like any other small country. You know, when you're small, you have to join somebody who isn't.

The problem was we trusted our democratic allies in the Western Europe, who sold us to Hitler. Then we believed, that after the war, we will be able to rebuild what we've lost. And guess what - great powers divided Europe and sold us again, this time to Stalin.

So, is that me who should feel ashamed? Why?

What shes saying is crude, but generally correct. Your country has never ever had the power to sustain itself against the will of a single great power. If think the Russians need to accept their power position (Oh no! The second most powerful country in the world) maybe you should accept the power position you've always had, I.E. a bargaining tool.

We have accepted our position from the beginning. We've never attempted to become a great power, because we knew it is not possible. You know, unlike some other nations, who dreamed about having a great empire, we have settled for what we had.

As for the present situation, exactly because we know what our relative power is, we joined NATO and EU to secure powerful allies. We helped the US in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. We support pro-democratic movements in undemocratic countries. In exchange, we expect that the great powers will protect our interests.

Those who're saying "bah, let Russians to retake Central Europe" are simply ignorants, idiots or followers of Chamberlain.

Oh no! Russia is using their natural resources to their advantage!

And serial killers are using their intelligence to their advantage. I guess that might makes right...

 

[Tekee]

And serial killers are using their intelligence to their advantage. I guess that might makes right...

Just becuase you have advatage dosen't make it wrong either, and certainly better then buying Oil for the Middle East Kings
And The Time of Superpowers has come to an end anyways, USA is the only remaining superpower, whatever the role of superpowers is weakening and to replace it are Global Governments, so when you say that Russia will never become a Superpower again but India and China will not be either, just becuase they have a boatload of people dosen't make them a soon to be Superpower.

And if you noticed Europe ends at the urals! not in Western Ukraine, So it is far into Russia, it's called europeans not Westerners. *Don't embarass yourself*
Mr. Kzek repulic

And the War in iraq proved that, so you joined a Powerful Organization, NATO, that in my eyes failed in iraq, congragulations for sucking up to America

I would quote you but I don't know how to use this internet jiggers

 

[ParkCungHee]

Don't embarass yourself by your lack of knowledge, please.

Soviets invaded in 1968 because Czechoslovakia was undergoing a change from communist dictatorship to a democratic country. They didn't want that to happen, so they crushed the "counter-revolution" in its beginnings.

Period between 1948-1968 was terrible. Czechs wanted to change that, and were invaded. That's when our responsibility ended, because we simply lost any chance to make our own decisions. What's so hard to understand?

I am aware of all of these things, my point is that you're still responcible. The French are responsible for Petain, the Croatians are responsible for Pavelich, the Slovaks are responsible for Tiso, why is it that those satellites are responsible but yours isn't.

I am a bit lost, what are you trying to prove, again?

That if Russia is supposed to give up its great power status without complaint, you should give up the very idea that your country is of any value other then a tool for larger countries.

The problem was we trusted our democratic allies in the Western Europe, who sold us to Hitler. Then we believed, that after the war, we will be able to rebuild what we've lost. And guess what - great powers divided Europe and sold us again, this time to Stalin.

So, is that me who should feel ashamed? Why?

Once again, you're half way admiting your place, and then backing down. Your even worse then the Russians when it comes to complaining.

We have accepted our position from the beginning.

Not according to the above quote.

And serial killers are using their intelligence to their advantage. I guess that might makes right...

Got it, selling a good or service at a price that is favorable to you is morally equivalent to serial killing. Interesting since your so big on the collapse of communism, doesn't that mean that everyone is now morally equivelent to a serial killer in eastern europe, what with the advantageous trade of goods and services.

 

[Tekee]

As for the present situation, exactly because we know what our relative power is, we joined NATO and EU to secure powerful allies. We helped the US in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. We support pro-democratic movements in undemocratic countries. In exchange, we expect that the great powers will protect our interests.

Iraq was not supported by UN and neither was the illegal bombing of Bosnia, or so one Serbian band tells me
America is fat why do you like it so much?
And this news is just Russia *NOT* sucking up to America, not Russia taking back satellite states,
Haven't you heard of Lang-Range ballistic Missiles? They made Satellite and Buffer zones obsolete

EU is very helpful for those who join All of Europe should evenutaully join in it.
then we can start having European Nationalism Movements and Crush the west! (West of Europe, duh!) Not Western Ukraine!

 

[Winner]

Iraq was not supported by UN and neither was the illegal bombing of Bosnia, or so one Serbian band tells me
America is fat why do you like it so much?

Our forces in Iraq were from CBR defense unit - they were stationed there to protect civilians and soldier from a possible WMD attack. The troops we have there now help to train Iraqi police. The troops we have in Kosovo are helping to rebuild the country. The same with Afghanistan and Bosnia.

How imperialist we are. Helping people is so evil, I am ashamed

Now let's focus on Russia again - what good do your troops? You devastated Chechnya and killed hundreds of thousands civilians. You support insurgent groups in Georgia and Moldova. You have the only working ABM defense system deployed in Europe, but whine about the US one. More, you think you're going to scare us? Go ahead, do what you want. At least the whole damn world will see what's Russia really like.

And this news is just Russia *NOT* sucking up to America, not Russia taking back satellite states,
Haven't you heard of Lang-Range ballistic Missiles? They made Satellite and Buffer zones obsolete

You talk nonsense. Ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads are weapons of last resort. They haven't changed the basic rules of geopolitics. That's why both superpowers expanded their influence during the Cold War.

EU is very helpful for those who join All of Europe should evenutaully join in it.
then we can start having European Nationalism Movements and Crush the west! (West of Europe, duh!) Not Western Ukraine!

What? I don't get what you're trying to say.

 

[Tekee]

Read above dummy,
And yes how evil it is to bomb civilizans
What Insurgent groups in Moldova?
Just how far back are you blame Russia for?
Think of your sins in reality
Christian
Wasn't it you that detryoed Prussia? The Great nation exterminated for the name of goodness and love
The crusaders stamped across our native lands ground of my land have now became red It can't take the blood anymore of the greatest tragedy come to my land With the servants of alien god.

And chechnya has terrorists, dosen't your War against Irag and Afganistan have them too?
And what about the Good they have done? Building Schools, Infrasturtuce, this is good is it not? Tragedy in war is unavoidable this is not Savage barbarians this is war similar to War America would wage.
Stuff were build in Afganistan too back in the 80's too you know, Now they are destryoed by Terrorists

 

[Mirc]

What Insurgent groups in Moldova?

Sorry, but gotta agree with Winner there. I know much about the situation in Moldova. Yeah, I wouldn't say "you" support it, but the government definitely does. Also they support the current president.

 

[Winner]

Read above dummy,

Well, I am trying, but you obviously don't know how to divide thoughts into readable sentences.

And yes how evil it is to bomb civilizans

We didn't bomb any civilians.

What Insurgent groups in Moldova?

Learn to use the damn Wikipedia

Just how far back are you blame Russia for?

This is happening now, as we speak. Your forces are responsible for doing evil, get over that.

Russians wonder why are people in Central and Eastern Europe afraid of them. Think about that, maybe if you tried a bit harder, you'd find dozens of good of reasons.

Think of your sins in reality

What?

Christian

What?!

Wasn't it you that detryoed Prussia? The Great nation exterminated for the name of goodness and love
The crusaders stamped across our native lands ground of my land have now became red It can't take the blood anymore of the greatest tragedy come to my land With the servants of alien god.

Ugh... don't smoke that so much, brother.

And chechnya has terrorists, dosen't your War against Irag and Afganistan have them too?

Let's just say that Americans are doing MUCH better job protecting the innocent lives. And at least initially, Chechnya wasn't a terrorist state. You effectively razed it.

And what about the Good they have done? Building Schools, Infrasturtuce, this is good is it not? Tragedy in war is unavoidable this is not Savage barbarians this is war similar to War America would wage.

Ah, so that part when you encircled Grozny and pounded it for days with heavy artillery was OK, according to you? Somehow, I don't think Americans would do the same.

Stuff were build in Afganistan too back in the 80's too you know, Now they are destryoed by Terrorists

My Gods, this is ridiculous. Chechny and Afghanistan were almost destroyed, and you call that "help"?

You want to compare yourselves with the West, but you use Mongol methods. It's absurd, I am not going to continue in this, it is pointless.

 

[Tekee]

HAHA Right one I want a new president,
And damn right *I* don't support it, just like Winner is not skinny and hot like the rest of the Czechs,
I am just not aware of News by the way I just don't care I am more concerned with what is happening in my life, like I never go "Well today in the world this happened" >_<

But how bad is it? Like you are totally -- not that hey I love Winner too! I also like Swedish Guy but not so much anymroe like he is so whiny about his aspergers

 

[Mirc]

HAHA Right one I want a new president,

Just to avoid any confusion: I was talking about the president of Moldova.

 

[nc-1701]

And serial killers are using their intelligence to their advantage. I guess that might makes right...

Wow, you finally realized what we have been trying to say all this time

In international politics might does make right. That's why Isreal is considerd the "good guys" because they win Russia is powerfull thus we have to respect their wishes or risk a dangerous confrontation.

 

[Commy]

And the War in iraq proved that, so you joined a Powerful Organization, NATO, that in my eyes failed in iraq, congragulations for sucking up to America

 

[White Elk]

To me there is no doubt that Russia and the US are engaged in CWII.
If there was any kernal of doubt within me, it is now gone!

thanks again bush

The Hindu ~ Tuesday, Feb 20, 2007

MOSCOW: Russia may target its missiles against Poland and the Czech republic if the U.S. sets up its missile defence shield planned in the two East European countries.

"If the Polish and Czech governments approve the decision [to deploy U.S. anti-missiles] our strategic missile forces will be able to target those missile sites," said Russian Strategic Missile Forces Commander Col. Gen. Nikolai Solovtsov said.

The commander told a press conference on Monday that Russia could quickly resume production of medium range missiles if Moscow decided to walk out of a Soviet-era treaty with the U.S. banning their deployment.

Russian General Staff Chief Col. Gen. Yuri Balyevsky said at the weekend that Moscow would pull out of the treaty is the U.S. went ahead with the deployment of missile defences in Europe...

http://www.hindu.com/2007/02/20/stories/2007022002941400.htm

 

[Trajan12]

To me there is no doubt that Russia and the US are engaged in CWII.
If there was any kernal of doubt within me, it is now gone!

thanks again bush

According to that we're building missile defence systems and their threatening to build offensive systems. Maybe you should re-think who you should be angry at.

 

[GinandTonic]

Wow, you finally realized what we have been trying to say all this time

In international politics might does make right. That's why Isreal is considerd the "good guys" because they win Russia is powerfull thus we have to respect their wishes or risk a dangerous confrontation.

Only if you are in the US. Might does not make right. Israel are not the "good guys" - there are no good guys in that conflict.

America thinking and acting in these terms is what has led it to go from the great white hope, martar hero of the free world to international pariah.

This thinking represents the greatest threat to international security in the modern world. This is the problem.

 

[White Elk]

According to that we're building missile defence systems and their threatening to build offensive systems. Maybe you should re-think who you should be angry at.

In the first year of bushs first term he broke the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. An action that many countries warned for many years would lead to a renewed Cold War. I think it started then (prior to 9/11). If that was the only unilateral, uncompromising, and bull-headed action that bush took; then perhaps it would have ended there. But he didn't, and so it has progressed.

This dolt bush was even so stupid (or deathly calculating) as to introduce his infamous 'axis of evil' along with a new US doctrine of unilateral, 'go it alone' pre-emptive war. His volatile statements such as 'your either with us, or against us' and his idiotic referances to the Crusades et al... has polarized diplomacy and made every nation take notice. Things have escalated since. The North Koreans have tested long range missiles and detonated a nuke. The Chinese have successfully tested their 'satellite killer'. And the US continues to test its ABM defense and continued to develop its nuclear armed bunker busters. There is much much more... But what concerns me the most is that bushs actions have awoken the old Soviet guard. He has re-ignited and Expanded a cold war!

Thanks to bush the world is in a far more dangerous state than it should be (or so I do absolutely believe). Things were looking so good till bush assumed the office of the President of the United States. I use this counter to countdown the days till his exit from power. I don't think I will be the only person who will party hardy in 700 days, 17 hours, 51 minutes, and 9 seconds...

A recent timeline regarding the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Being a Russian, Im on the side of the Motherland...

Damn you Americans, intruding into our spheres of influence, would u like it if we just went back to cuba and set up missles?

shame on you.