[BTS] Saved Game - What to do here?

[sampsa]

So they might build mids and other wonders for you?

This is a good point. After alpha it's possible to gift him masonry if he doesn't have it. Should be nearly guaranteed Mids for you to capture.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I'm finding German archers to the northwest. They seem to have been keeping that area clean of barbarians lately. Because of this, I risked sending a warrior there. I am building an axeman in Cobre and will send up there if needed. I sent the axemen east to secure that area. I opened borders with everyone except for Charley. I may want the Germans to build the mids for me. I can tell the German city is on stone. Just one tile of road north of Cobre pigs should open foreign trade routes.

Spoiler :

 

[Gumbolt]

Amount of land on this map is not huge. Ragnar map had over 1360+ land tiles. This game has 696 tiles but same number of AI. Meaning the Ai may struggle to secure much land. From what we can tell so far you have a lot of unclaimed land to East whilst the AI will be likely boxed in. I figure you could secure 200/696 of the land peacefully/

Taking down an AI with 3-4 cities is much easier than an AI with 7-10 cities. This assumes that an AI does not go to war and take down your neighbours. Low sea level here does not appear to of done much for the AI

If you planned early conquest it should be pretty simple here. Get construction/phants and feudalism and the AI will chain vassal pretty quickly.Probably only need the land of 3-4 AI here to reach domination.

 

[sampsa]

I am building an axeman in Cobre and will send up there if needed.

You don't need 3 axes. Try to keep the amount of units at minimum, otherwise you start bleeding gold for nothing.

edit: you are slow building a worker size 3 in Trigo. I thought I explained why you shouldn't slow build. Put into something like barracks (oh you have access to libraries already too), then whip at 4. No reason to have science-slider on btw. You can't finish alpha anyway and could wait for a library bonus.

Also, definitely corn from cap to Cobre. Try to always remember to give tiles to other cities when not growing due to building settler/worker.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

OK, I've made the changes you suggested. I switched to library in Trigo. The worker in Becerro has caught the overflow from the 3-pop settler last turn. Cobre is growing on corn from Becerro while it builds barracks. There isn't much reason to build a library Cobre. I'm planning on moving the worker from Becerro to the plains north of the pigs to build a road for an international trade route. I have two gold and someone may have a luxury resource to trade. That will take two turns to move there and two turns to build a road. The worker building a road to Seda (the new city) will irrigate the corn when the road is done. The worker in Trigo has two turns to build the quarry. Then it will take two turns to build a road to connect up the stone.

In Becerro, should I switch production to library or just finish the worker? I can two-pop and worker in Cobre. Trigo doesn't have a lot of good growth tiles to work. It has a wheat farm, a stone quarry soon, a gold mine, and a floodplain from border pop. I will probably irrigate the floodplain there.

Spoiler :

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Anyway, I think I'm getting it. Production for everything just has to take advantage of all possible mechanics. I've attached my latest save. Workers are only made with 2-pop whips. Thanks for your help.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Amount of land on this map is not huge. Ragnar map had over 1360+ land tiles. This game has 696 tiles but same number of AI. Meaning the Ai may struggle to secure much land. From what we can tell so far you have a lot of unclaimed land to East whilst the AI will be likely boxed in. I figure you could secure 200/696 of the land peacefully/

I do have a lot more land to expand to then I would expect on a small map. How would it affect long term strategy if you know that you have more land than others? If you are boxed in, an early rush is needed.

Taking down an AI with 3-4 cities is much easier than an AI with 7-10 cities. This assumes that an AI does not go to war and take down your neighbours. Low sea level here does not appear to of done much for the AI.

There don't seem to be any major war mongers on the map. Who is most likely to conquer? Charley doesn't like me, but he also doesn't like Mansa who founded a competing religion.

If you planned early conquest it should be pretty simple here. Get construction/phants and feudalism and the AI will chain vassal pretty quickly.Probably only need the land of 3-4 AI here to reach domination.

I would love to conquer the world with citadel trebs, but I have to expect to have to ready for war with Charley before then. Going alphabet leaves a lot up to chance. I'm not sure what I will get for a trade. Monarchy? I will need religious techs first. Math? IW?

 

[sampsa]

Looked at the save. Some remarks

• you are not very focused with the workers. If you need to do something, use several workers to complete the task asap. I'm talking about stuff like improving the only food res, improving stone, laying down cottages and so on. Just something to keep in mind that I think there is plenty of room for improvement in that area
• you are trying to build the Mids, but you are not putting the focus on it. Cottages etc can wait, all workers should be either improving food or chopping Mids
• always plan the expansion! Where is the next settler coming from and where to settle? I wouldn't build a scout now (what can be gained by scouting AI territory?), just put OF into settler, grow, whip
• plan the buildings. Which cities are getting libraries and why? In the NW-city don't start with a monument. Always granary first in cities that have , especially with an EXP leader. No harm done yet, you should whip granary size 2 anyway
• alpha. Why did you go there if you don't know what you are trying to achieve? IW is guaranteed, monarchy very likely though with Mids very low priority, hopefully math at some point. Mansa's tech path is important, glad you have on him!

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Looked at the save. Some remarks

• you are not very focused with the workers. If you need to do something, use several workers to complete the task asap. I'm talking about stuff like improving the only food res, improving stone, laying down cottages and so on. Just something to keep in mind that I think there is plenty of room for improvement in that area

• Any specific suggestions in this area? Cobre had two improved tiles. I wanted 4, so two workers are improving land there. Two workers are chopping mids. One worker is improving the only food for Seda.

  [*]you are trying to build the Mids, but you are not putting the focus on it. Cottages etc can wait, all workers should be either improving food or chopping Mids

  I can take the two improving Cobre and put them on the mids. Cobre can work forests.

  [*]always plan the expansion! Where is the next settler coming from and where to settle? I wouldn't build a scout now (what can be gained by scouting AI territory?), just put OF into settler, grow, whip

  Cobre has a barracks, granary, and monument now, but no commerce to justify library. I'm not sure what to build there.

  [*]plan the buildings. Which cities are getting libraries and why? In the NW-city don't start with a monument. Always granary first in cities that have , especially with an EXP leader. No harm done yet, you should whip granary size 2 anyway

  I wanted horses and they are in the second ring, but I can build granary.

  [*]alpha. Why did you go there if you don't know what you are trying to achieve? IW is guaranteed, monarchy very likely though with Mids very low priority, hopefully math at some point. Mansa's tech path is important, glad you have on him!

  Alpha is a little more expensive then IW, but you have potential to get so much more. Still it is hard to tell what you will get.

I see your suggestions. At this point, workers should be improving food, chopping settlers, or chopping pyramids. You don't want to see any units (axemen, scouts) built to save on maintenance costs. You think I should hold off on building cottages. Cobre can slow build a library, because that's all it can do, at least until Alphabet. I'll put two workers on chopping out a settler at Trigo, three workers on chopping pyramids and move the last worker after food is improved in Seda to help chop pyramids. I can grow Trigo on Library, and switch to settler when chops hit. Did I hear you correctly?

 

[sampsa]

Cobre had two improved tiles. I wanted 4, so two workers are improving land there.

If you are short on workers, build more. At this point of the game, chopping usually beats cottaging, especially since you have two gold tiles. You've invested 50 into barracks in pig/copper, probably not ideal. Also note how mediocre the 6 tile actually is. It is forcing you to invest into something instead of growing. To me 21 and 6 are roughly equal tiles post-granary. The only thing 6-tile is good at is slow building settlers/workers, but we already established that that is not something to aim for.

Cobre has a barracks, granary, and monument now, but no commerce to justify library. I'm not sure what to build there.

And for those 50+30 you've gained very little. In general, early game is about enough units to guarantee safety and building workers/settlers.

I wanted horses and they are in the second ring, but I can build granary.

What do you do with horses?

Alpha is a little more expensive then IW, but you have potential to get so much more. Still it is hard to tell what you will get.

And the lower the difficulty level the less you get. At least there is Mansa in the game, without him I wouldn't like going alpha very much.

Did I hear you correctly?

Yes!

 

[Gumbolt]

Best way to fog bust to east is to settle new cities. Mids is okay but it won't win you the game. Your average city has 1 food resource.

There is fur, ivory, silver and gems in land around you. Expanding could of captured these. Let the AI build mids. Expand and go military. Scout the gems as you could use the resource.

Maths construction/HBR will conquer this map. Maths/calendar would be good too. Maths chops for wonders is good too. 60H instead of 40H.

If you don't do mids the capital should grow on the food resources and more cottages while you prep your first war. Do the Germans have metal yet?

What is your overall strategy here? Your obsession with IW will not get you far on higher levels as the AI will always trade IW and they focus research it. They know no other way.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

If you are short on workers, build more. At this point of the game, chopping usually beats cottaging, especially since you have two gold tiles. You've invested 50 into barracks in pig/copper, probably not ideal. Also note how mediocre the 6 tile actually is. It is forcing you to invest into something instead of growing. To me 21 and 6 are roughly equal tiles post-granary. The only thing 6-tile is good at is slow building settlers/workers, but we already established that that is not something to aim for.

And for those 50+30 you've gained very little. In general, early game is about enough units to guarantee safety and building workers/settlers.

The two axemen have their hands full right now protecting Trigo. I've seen no barb activity near Cobre or Seda, but they do have some fog of near them. I don't feel completely safe with a just a warrior protecting each. I still need to build something in Cobre. What is the most handy thing to build? I can build a library, scout, spearman, or axeman and the city can grow, or I can slow build a worker or settler. If I build more cities, I'll need some garrison troops. Since it has a barracks, maybe an axeman would be the least of evils?

What do you do with horses?

Maybe nothing immediately, but it takes 10 turns for borders to pop.

Best way to fog bust to east is to settle new cities. Mids is okay but it won't win you the game. Your average city has 1 food resource.

There is fur, ivory, silver and gems in land around you. Expanding could of captured these. Let the AI build mids. Expand and go military. Scout the gems as you could use the resource.

Maths construction/HBR will conquer this map. Maths/calendar would be good too. Maths chops for wonders is good too. 60H instead of 40H.

If you don't do mids the capital should grow on the food resources and more cottages while you prep your first war. Do the Germans have metal yet?

What is your overall strategy here? Your obsession with IW will not get you far on higher levels as the AI will always trade IW and they focus research it. They know no other way.

I'm actually fine with building more cities and more military instead of the mids. Even if I chop away everything from the capital, I may be beat to it anyway. You did point out that the Germans are industrious and we know they have stone. I can conquer the Germans and take the Pyramids from them later.

Settling near fur, gems, ivory, and silver would add four luxuries and I could build my cities bigger. The two axemen are busy protecting from barb incursions from the east, but I could get some barb attacks to either Cobre or Seda, and each is protected by a single warrior. I'd like to scout the area around both Seda and Cobre, both for safety and possible resources. I may need more soldiers and settlers than the Pyramids anyway. Cities and troops have maintenance costs, but working these resources can offset those. What do you think Sampsa?

I mentioned IW as one of the many techs you can trade Alphabet for. That really isn't an obsession.

 

[Gumbolt]

You still need a strategy tech wise. Still not sure trading for IW is going to do much here as you already have copper. It would allow to chop some of the jungle.

The axes ideally should be out fogbusting and protecting city sites. When units are left in cities you often get more barbs.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

A catapult attack should be viable, so I would prefer to trade for math more than IW. IW would let me build some cottages on the river south of Cobre. Axe, spear, and catapult attacks do well enough. Then you add archery and HBR for elephants and horsemen or IW for swordsmen. Currency and CoL are not needed right away with all the nice high-commerce resources around. My plan is to head to construction after alphabet.

 

[sampsa]

The two axemen have their hands full right now protecting Trigo.

One axe and a warrior should secure that area easily.

Since it has a barracks, maybe an axeman would be the least of evils?

Perhaps, the only worry I have is unit maintenance.

I'm actually fine with building more cities and more military instead of the mids. Even if I chop away everything from the capital, I may be beat to it anyway. You did point out that the Germans are industrious and we know they have stone. I can conquer the Germans and take the Pyramids from them later.

Settling near fur, gems, ivory, and silver would add four luxuries and I could build my cities bigger. The two axemen are busy protecting from barb incursions from the east, but I could get some barb attacks to either Cobre or Seda, and each is protected by a single warrior. I'd like to scout the area around both Seda and Cobre, both for safety and possible resources. I may need more soldiers and settlers than the Pyramids anyway. Cities and troops have maintenance costs, but working these resources can offset those. What do you think Sampsa?

I mentioned IW as one of the many techs you can trade Alphabet for. That really isn't an obsession.

Maybe it's partly due to the nature of such forum games, but again note how your focus is all over the place. No plan, but you play on, choosing techs and builds with no real aim or purpose. You already committed to alpha, which is off the construction-line.

Yes, I think expanding now is good, but I'd try to get the Mids first (edit: well, at the same time). Remember, that's why you went masonry, started chopping capital forests without math and so on.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

One axe and a warrior should secure that area easily.

Perhaps, the only worry I have is unit maintenance.

Barb archers have been coming in two at a time. I've been trying to catch them on tiles without protection, but they are still weakening my defenders. I might be able to protect the city, but I'm sure I would have lost improvements.

Maybe it's partly due to the nature of such forum games, but again note how your focus is all over the place. No plan, but you play on, choosing techs and builds with no real aim or purpose. You already committed to alpha, which is off the construction-line.

Yes, I think expanding now is good, but I'd try to get the Mids first (edit: well, at the same time). Remember, that's why you went masonry, started chopping capital forests without math and so on.

I should have probably gone math. I might still luck out and get a trade for it.

I traded one of my gold to the Germans for fur. This raises my population cap. I am using two workers to chop out settlers. Four workers have been chopping out forests in capital. One is improving a mine because forests are running out. I am four turns from alphabet.

I did build two more axemen. One is for Seda and one is for Cobre. Seda has wilderness to the north and Cobre has empty jungle to the southwest. There may be room for a gem city to the southwest. Maybe there is something worthwhile north of Seda too. The axemen can explore those areas. You can actually see the Great Wall near a tundra hill to the northwest of Seda. I'd feel more comfortable with more protection in those cities.

Ouch! Three archers appear out of the fog near Seda.

Spoiler :

 

[Harv]

Ouch! Three archers appear out of the fog near Seda.

Did you get the Vedic Aryans event?

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I didn't get an event. I think they were probably inside of German borders when they built the Great Wall. They were probably expelled to the same point. You usually get a lot more barbarian traffic when the Great Wall is built by a neighbor.

 

[Qactus]

To be on the safe side, upgrade the warrior to another axe this turn with gold. And after the barbs are dealt with, definitely place the axes more proactively (i.e. further out) and you won't be surprised like that

 

[sampsa]

Barb archers have been coming in two at a time. I've been trying to catch them on tiles without protection, but they are still weakening my defenders. I might be able to protect the city, but I'm sure I would have lost improvements.

I guess the issue is that you don't have spawn busting really. Also, having those guys out gives you more time to react to approaching barb units. This is why instead of scouting it's important to fortify your first warriors out there in (relatively) safe spots.

Near Seda it's the GW that is screwing you. Next time take note when your neighbor builds it, now all barbs head towards you from that direction. I'd just promote the axe to combat and fortify. 3 archers should have almost no chance especially if you can get an extra warrior there. Btw, you should've whipped granary immediately when available, it's a pretty big mistake not to.