[BTS] Saved Game - What to do here?

[sampsa]

I know you had to run specialists at some point to get things started, but I get your point. You prefer to use specialists sparingly (except during golden ages) and focus on growth.

Yes. Having several cities running specialists outside of a golden age does very little good because 1)when you are running , you are not growing (at least not as fast as you could) and 2)you are not using the possible -point multipliers (golden age, pacifism), thus you are being inefficient.

It works pretty well on the emperor level even with a non-phi leader, but it may not have been optimal on this map.

Well, the thing is that on emperor, the same can be said about nearly everything. Always going for catapults works pretty well, as does always winning liberalism, always aiming to win culture even... It's not difficult enough to punish you for your mistakes. My advise for you would be to move to immortal immediately after this game.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I do play some deity games and even win there sometimes. My goal is to just play better at all levels and improve my victory times.

 

[sampsa]

I discovered that I have the game on my laptop so was able to look at the save. Your problems stem from poor choices in the early game. Stonehenge, no granaries, no early cottages. I also think an academy is a big mistake as played, capital is just way too weak for that.

 

[Gumbolt]

I tried playing inca just wonder spamming once. It was bad play. Expansion much slower and key techs were delayed. I guess here you start with myst but 120 hammers is a big ask early on. The delay on key buildings/settlers can be too much. On higher levels you often won't even get them if AI start near stone/marble. Fail gold can sometimes be useful but it should not be needed on emperor that early on. Might explain the delay on your HA rush too and the lack of granaries.

Shame we did not see this game from start.

 

[Harv]

I tried playing inca just wonder spamming once. It was bad play. Expansion much slower and key techs were delayed. I guess here you start with myst but 120 hammers is a big ask early on. The delay on key buildings/settlers can be too much. On higher levels you often won't even get them if AI start near stone/marble. Fail gold can sometimes be useful but it should not be needed on emperor that early on. Might explain the delay on your HA rush too and the lack of granaries.

Shame we did not see this game from start.

I made exactly this mistake - and chalk it up to a combination of it being a long time since I played and being overexcited. In most games posted to the forum, the very first turn is done over multiple posts. Post a screenshot of the start and a discussion of the general strategy. Decide where to move the warrior and which direction to settle. Post the demographics a couple turns later for some indication on what the other civs are. Instead, I played all the way to 100AD and wondered what major decisions I could have changed (missed opportunity cost) to make it better.

 

[sampsa]

T50 playing in the way I'd view as standard

Spoiler :

Went agri-min-BW-pottery. Not a lot of but I have the ability to start laying down cottages. Expansion is ok, 4th city to the west (will be insta-connected via water), 4th worker next turn. From there just grow cities, get granaries, build cottages. Preferably should find a way to get some for growth. It's possible to go either aesth-line, grab music, win lib and so on or go construction-line to conquer more land.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

No granaries, no early cottages, and few cities near my capital are all as a result of the strategy I played. I did a two city horse archer rush powered by math chops. I am very aware of overlapping cities to support capital growth and building cottages early. In this particular case delaying pottery and building few cottages because my workers were only chopping allowed me to strike with horse archers earlier.

Saying a horse archer rush with math bulb was a poor choice with a non-philosophical leader is a fair criticism. It is also a fair criticism to tell me how I could have executed a more powerful horse archer rush earlier is also fair. If I told you my strategy was to build my capital as big as possible as quickly as possible then these criticisms would be fair--but I didn't. Civilization is a wide-open game in many ways. Sometimes players delay fishing, sailing, and meditation to bulb engineering with great scientists at 500BC or never grow their capital larger than seven citizens and still conquer the world.

Just because I chose a particular strategy doesn't mean that I am not aware of the basics. Maybe a few more chariots or workers would have been better than Stonehenge though.

 

[sampsa]

Just because I chose a particular strategy doesn't mean that I am not aware of the basics. Maybe a few more chariots or workers would have been better than Stonehenge though.

Certainly. I don't think your strategy was necessarily bad, but I also don't think you made the best of it. I'd get those granaries and cottages immediately after it's clear that you are winning the war.

It's cool to try different strategies, but basics became basics because that's the way the game works. I think a 3-city HA-attack without bulbs IS basic and would work a lot better.

 

[lymond]

The academy was my idea. The first save he posted here he was in dire economic straits(and had the GS sitting in Mecca). The academy allowed him to push to finish Currency immediately and avoid bankruptcy, as well as start economic recovery. Ideally, he'd set it up for a Philo bulb here, but my goal at the time was just recovering.

 

[sampsa]

The academy allowed him to push to finish Currency immediately and avoid bankruptcy, as well as start economic recovery.

Makes sense I guess. Sometimes you need to switch plans if things are not going as intended.

 

[5tephen]

@sampsa

Spoiler Tangent to main topic :

If using first GS for golden age, are you skipping philosophy before first golden age starts? I'd assumed pacifism first was best but might explain why I often seem slow bulbing up to lib.

Sad to hear Civ 4 no longer installed on your main computer - I've learned a lot from your posts but I guess everyone will lose enthusiasm for a nearly 20 year old game eventually!

 

[sampsa]

@5tephen

Spoiler :

If using first GS for golden age, are you skipping philosophy before first golden age starts? I'd assumed pacifism first was best but might explain why I often seem slow bulbing up to lib.

No, I think if possible you should have access to religion+pacifism for the 1st golden age. Thus if no music, 1st GS starts GA it's either self-teching philo or rarely (captured) Shwedagon Paya. For me, going music is very clearly the main path, assuming lib->cuirs. It makes it all so easy, all you need is 100-points before GA to get the philo bulb and you are set.

Sad to hear Civ 4 no longer installed on your main computer - I've learned a lot from your posts but I guess everyone will lose enthusiasm for a nearly 20 year old game eventually!

Thanks! Probably just a phase of needing to get things done and I'll be back.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

OK, here's another game I'm with a more traditional approach. I played to 1050AD. I will probably be criticized for not checking out the islands to the west until after 1AD and for building too many wonders. I oracled CS at 1000 BC, built the Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, Great Library, and Mausoleum. I'm building the Taj Mahal. I took Astronomy as my Liberalism prize. I am ahead in technology, but Pacal is competing. I hope to have a little dominance coming up with cuirassiers.

 

[Gumbolt]

Looked at 100ad save.
This is such an over powered start. Should of played at immortal level as you won't learn much here/
Get mining early work on gems. Ivory gives 3 commerce. Slavery and chop out 2 settlers. Then you can settle 2xfood/gold cities. Improve cottages and you can pretty much steam roll continent with phants or cuirs. Just construction/HBR and archery after CS.

Great job on CS slingshot and mids.Very nice. GLH was perhaps not needed. Glib/Maus very nice to have. Good city size by 100ad too. You spammed the coastal cities for GLH.

I wonder if a dash to cuirs works better here. Albeit Inca's land looks too good.There is a lot of land you can grab peacefully. Axes/pults would of worked too. Maybe a bit earlier?

I looked at your save after doing the below. Not sure I would complete it as this game is likely won with such a huge tech lead.

Spoiler 1040bc :

I had 3 cities pretty early all working a high value commerce/food resources and a few cottages too by 1040bc.
Settled in place.
East gold/fp/food 2nd
Corn/gold 3rd.
Marble 4th
Double fish 5th

I had marble and maths in time for Oracle slingshot for CS and 5 cities settled. I was late to slavery. Oracle used 2 chops. CS chops for mids hopefully.

Sadly barbs took the double cow city.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

1800 Diplo Victory. Shaka's stacks of grenadiers, cannon, and war elephants were huge, but I whittled them down eventually. He retook a few cities I captured. He took down 24 cavalry and 2 machine guns, and 8 riflemen, 12 cannon, and 4 infantry with one stack.

I guess that is an improvement on my usually finish times, but that was a nice capital location. It only got better when random gold mines appeared.

 

[Gumbolt]

Sounds like something went wrong here. You should of seen Shaka's stack. If you are going war mode you should of had a huge stack by 1800ad. Shaka should be quite backwards as your science pushes forward.

Win is a win but given start this should of been a walkover. Having CS at 1040bc is a huge advantage.

On my save 350bc and Incas are gone. Mids built. Great Wall captured. Up to about 10 cities and will likely attack Pascal next as financial. Started Great Library. Captured the barb city and got 2 settlers on the way.

 

[lymond]

Wow...opened the Rags save. Very nice start.

It's common to lose a little focus mid-game as you are learning - but you will learn to "close" in time. Still, it's more important right now to fine tune the early game. The CS slingshot was a good move but, of course, far less viable on IMM+.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Sounds like something went wrong here. You should of seen Shaka's stack. If you are going war mode you should of had a huge stack by 1800ad. Shaka should be quite backwards as your science pushes forward.

I fought Shaka in the 1600's. I attacked Shaka with two stacks and this was my smaller stack that got wiped out. I overestimated the power of my stack, but one lost battle didn't delay my victory.

In the 1600's, I conquered my continent and and vassalized four of the six other civs. I settled cities in just about every island, including a very large island with seven cities. I thought that would be enough to trigger domination--but it wasn't. If I would have gone directly to mass media or attacked the other continent sooner, I would have won sooner.

Win is a win but given start this should of been a walkover. Having CS at 1040bc is a huge advantage.

There was a lot of good land on this map. I think the AI's had some pretty good starts too.

On my save 350bc and Incas are gone. Mids built. Great Wall captured. Up to about 10 cities and will likely attack Pascal next as financial. Started Great Library. Captured the barb city and got 2 settlers on the way.

How did you attack? Horse archers? I began my elepult attack after 1 AD.

 

[Gumbolt]

Mostly phants and pults. Your stack was bigger than mine. Incas had chariots/archer defenses. They had 3 cities. I had been at war with them since i worker stole. Biggest stack of 4 units that never attacked me.

Always scout out ai stacks. General rule is to control your continent by 1300ad. At times better to wipe out ai instead of vassal's as their land counts only 50% of land area. Also avoids we want to join motherland issue.

Cuirs here could of easily be ready by 800-1000ad. Strong capital and that bank of 5 strong commerce resources below capital.

100bc and Mutal down. Had 4 defenders including holken, axe and archers. 1 turn bombard and 1 turn attack. Lost a catapult.Up to 13 cities. Nice city surrounded by 8-9 developed cottages.

Slaves revolt in capital cost me 2 pop. Very annoying event!

2nd city fell lost a catapult. Wounded stack now so may have to heal. 14 cities by 50bc. Mayan's have absolutely no stack here. I think too busy expanding due to low sea level. There is so much empty land here I am going to whip 2-3 more settlers.

Great library complete. I won't match your city sizes as I have whipped out about 4-5 workers to get the dye and other resources chopped and prepared. Needed 2-3 workers to improve the 3xcow city.

Okay 100ad 17 cities. Mayan 4 cities and no metal or horse. Just completed MoM wonder. Have a GE and Gart from music. I captured 3 workers on last city capture.

At about 254 beakers at 100% science. I lack currency, Monarchy, MC and machinerybut I have lit and Music. Currency 2 turns off. Albeit I have 10 more cities and 2 captured AI capitals. My capital is smaller due to slave revolt event. Whipped the eastern gold city quite a bit. Probably could be producing more units. Hanging Gardens not built yet. Probably should of chopped that somewhere. Mistake!

Biggest danger now is Shaka or Toku declaring on me. Maybe 1300ad for low sea level is slightly ambitous to grab all the land. I am guessing Shaka could of easily had 13-15 cities come 1800ad.

 

[Gumbolt]

300ad and got Hanging Gardens and Parth too. Mayans have 2 size one cities left and no one with fuedalism yet. If shaka does get fuedalism before I take them I could be at war with Shaka. Unlikely.

Can pretty much get any wonder I want here. Up to 19 cities soon to be 21. Only issue is size of them. I have a barb city I want to take too.