sc:01 Moddern war

I like the idea of lowering the population of cities to try to steer the location of the holy city. I never thought of that before. I got a better look at the map and I like open purple dot better, now. The 2 lakes would be scrap tiles to a non-coastal city, and now it would have 3 sugar tiles for extra food.

I would have picked up hunting (extra happy from ivory) and monotheism (org. rel.) so that once the stone is hooked up, we can chop out the pyramids in Amsterdam. Therefore, I would've sent the free missionary to Amsterdam for the 25% bonus to chopped hammers and extra happy (especially since Thebes is not using the extra happy). I've seen the AI ignore the 'mids often building it in the AD years. Now, maybe we could try to chop the 'mids in Memphis (with org. rel.). I think we would get it, if we start now (pre-chopping).

We'll get copper in a few turns when Amsterdam's borders expand.

We really have little hope that Alex will trade tech with us. Stealing a tech is something I've never done before, though. We have enough EP already!
 
Theres a chance we could whip Pyramids, but I've just had bad experiences going for Pyramids this late in the game before.

And I'll be honest. I never knew city populations factored into placement of holy cities. Could anyone expound on that?
 
Nice turns tiberion. We're ahead of Alex for now, and it looks like he's aggressively trying to settle his less than ideal land in the north. Although I don't blame him because desert + additional distance sucks.

I doubt there's any good land north of Barb City (although it's always good to check), due to the massive desert band that appears to permeate that area. It'll probably be our frontier city where we'll weather attacks from Alex (almost certain to come).

Alphabet was a solid choice because we'll be able to crank out some spies to populate Alex-land and keep an eye on him, and possibly steal some techs of his. I do agree we need IW next though, because purple dot won't start becoming useful until we can clear cut those jungles.

I like the hollow purple dot as well. The production potential is a bit lacking, but that's not important with 3 sugars and 2 elephants. We'll be making some monster money there. It'll also free up the lake tiles for use by the coastal blue and orange dots (not that that's a huge consideration in any case).

At any rate, we should aggressively settle our land now, because Alex has run out of space, and will likely come knocking. Methinks using our chariots as a picket line would help to determine settling order.
 
There'll be no trading with Alex until he gets to know some other AIs. They only trade when they know 2 or more civs. :(

And we don't need GA for anarchy free civ changes.

Good points, I forgot we were spiritual. :crazyeye:

What's the best build order in a new city ? granary, courthouse then forge/library depending on the citie's job ?

Agree -with granary/courthouse being interchangeable as 1st build, depending on how bad the maintenance is in the city.

Regarding Holy city founding: IIRC, the probability is heavily favored towards the highest population, non-capital city. It's still a chance based system though, so it doesn't always work.
 
I've only plaid 5 turns, as we need a decision at turn 5....

preflight: turn 121. 1000BC

We've 5 workers, 5 chariots and 3 warriors.
Each city needs a settler, an axe a bowman or chariot and a worker and probably a missionary and spy after a while too.
We'll get a border pop in Amsterdam in 9 turns, which will then net us the copper. So, purple dot isn't a huge priority, but we'll need to get some axes going by then.

Blue dot needs fishing too. and orange could do with it.

As per the discussion, pull some of the chariots up to Navajo. We may be opening our selves up to barbs though . ..... :eek:

Still, Navajo and blue dot will seal our borders. for a while, but I expect Alex to sneak galleons round.

Turn 122 (1) 975BC
Pull back one of the chariots from Alex's lands to Navajo.
Recall the chariot from the south too.
set the worker who quarried the stone to build a road back to Amsterdam.

Turn 123 (2) 950BC
Finish a worker in Memphis. May as well build a settler there. Until we get fishing + work boat, there's not enough food to be worth letting it grow. 1 chariot finds Argos, Alex's newest town. If there's a chance of going after pyramids, we need to prechop around Amsterdam. But we need to road quickly too. Set two more workers in roading next to Amsterdam.
I'm very worried about our power levels, especially if we build the pyramids.


turn 124 (3) 925BC.
try MM ing amsterdam. I think, now we have Islam, we don't have to have theology first (infact, letting the Ais on the other continents get the rest of the religions is “a good thing” More infighting.
So, we don't need to worry about the priests too much in Amsterdam yet, as long as we get the priest before the mids are finished. (although, a GE's not a problem if we get him first)
So, drop one priest to whip, to get a good overflow into the mids.
if I can work this out right right, it's something like
49 hammers needed. 1 pop due to lib for creative leader.
which will be two bags of hammesr, = 60.
so 11 overflow, x2 for mids with stone = 22.

If we wait until next tun,
29 needed, = 1 bag of hammer.

Or, if we MM to 9 hammers base it's
86+18 = 104
= 31 hammers needed = 2 bags.
29 overflow,
= 58 for mids.

here goes.


turn 125 (4) 900BC.
WTH, we've built a cottage on a brown tile a thebes while we've still got grasslads not cottaged? I know it's riverside, but working it will slow down the growth.... maybe it's not problem.


:whip: at Amsterdam.

Alex has lots of beavers to keep him warm up there in the cold north :)


Spoiler :
50103cb6.jpg



Nothing interesting north of Navajo. Do we want to burn it and rebuild 1s ?


Spoiler :
bf9f13d4.jpg


turn 126 (5) 875BC

37 overflow at Amsterdam :-) gives us 90 (with this turn's build) towards mids. :woohoo:

Spoiler :
8fa1a7b4.jpg


They still seem a long way away though !! there are 9 forresta we can chop, and I think we have the workers to do ti. (no forests left round amsterdam if we do though.)

Do we go for it ?

I'm going to take a break here to discuss it. And it's late and a good excuse to pause. I'll finish tomorrow night and decide based on the discussion.

if we don't go for it, the overflow can go into a settler or something.
 
Najavo looks great where it is. One dead tile, but 3 food resources. Can probably do quite a few things with it. There's absolutely no worthwhile territory to the north anyways.

I don't think I'm qualified to speak about the Mids, because I don't usually go after them. Having the stone helps though.

Speaking of which, the time to complete is misleading. Work the stone instead of the forested plains hill, until it gets mined. Amsterdam is also at max happy, so we can MM it by moving the citizen off the corn to a more productive square, while the food burns down a bit.
 
I agree with S.ilver, keep Navajo. Still undecided on purple dot though - it already has crappy production without workshops or watermills, and it seems a waste to not claim the copper with a city.

As for mids, I say go for it. I'd MM the city to work the horses, mined grassland hill, and the stone quarry. It'll starve for awhile, but that's OK, just don't let it lose a pop. Chop the plains hill forest, and the riverside forests south of that tile. Also chop the other riverside forest 1W of Amsterdam. I think we need to put all our workers on the chopping if we expect to get the wonder.

I do disagree with one thing though (naturally :mischief: ). I think we would benefit still form founding another religion. I find that when an AI founds a religion this late, it is rarely dominant. In fact, often they never spread it to more than a couple of cities. If we manage to found a religion in Amsterdam (by whipping memphis to reduce pop), then the city would be a monster with a shrine and wall street.
 
I think going for pyramids is OK. If we lose, then we get gold. It's not a bad trade of forests for gold. I don't think we'll lose, though. Please take 3 turns to research hunting. It will allow our cities to grow by 1! I also think the copper city SW of Amsterdam should be founded ASAP, because it will get gold and increase our cities by 1 again! Get monotheism (5 turns) for org. religion, to help in the 'mids effort. I'd pre-chop all forests to within 1 turn and then complete the chop after org. rel. is adopted, that way, if we lose the race we still have our forests! So, the next 8 turns of research should be hunting-monotheism, then rush a missionary to Amsterdam if its not Islamic by then, then finish chopping, with 5 workers pre-positioned on 5 tiles, you could get 337.5 hammers in 1 turn. We could get another 75 hammers if we could get a GS first to pop mathematics, but that might be stretching things too far.

I wouldn't be too quick to capture Navajo. It's far from the capital and possibly hard to defend. Better to swoop down after Alex captures it!

I hope we agree on a long term goal of getting the AP, too, so I'd be the first one to Theology just for that reason alone. Maybe, try to make Memphis a double holy city.
 
part 2

turn 126 (5) 875BC. (cont)

Since we don't want an Navajo yet, I'll send a couple of chariots back down south to suppress the barbs.

I'll swap to monotheism now to get that in for the 25% in Amsterdam as playshogi sugested.

Turn 127 (6) 850BG
Thebes has finished a settler. I'll send him up to purple dot. probably the hollow one.

I can get Thebes to decent production without taking a turn of mono. So, I'll let it grow, then build a new settler.

Turn 128 (7) 825BC
more pre-chopping

Turn 129 (8) 800BC
more pre-chopping. Er, I've got to remember what I've chopped...

Turn 130 (9) 775BC
more pre chopping. chariot explores the coast a little. We explore Alex a bit more too.

Turn 131 (10) 750BC
Set Thebes back to doing a settler. now.


I think I've marked the forests that have been prechopped.

So, two settlers in building, as soon as the copper is on line, we need AXES and finishing the mids.

1: Simon_c <-- Juts Played
2: S.ilver ** Up now **
3: Madtown <-- Up on deck.
4: playshogi
5: tiberion02
 
Got it. I'll wait for some consensus on where the settler is going first.
 
Got it. I'll wait for some consensus on where the settler is going first.

Well, there have been three votes for "hollow" purple circle form my previous dotmap (you , me , and Simon). I think everyone agrees on solid blue dot also. Despite the maintenance, I think we need to settle these sites ASAP in order to block Alex. Sure, he could sneak a galley past us, but that means he would have no land passage to reinforce the city = easy picking anyway. Besides, he may choose to settle on the islands(?) to the east of the landamss for us instead.
 
1 S of the current settler location is my choice. I think the extra food from the sugar tile is more important than being able to work the copper. For the 2nd settler building in Memphis, 3 SW of Amsterdam. Memphis should build a missionary next for Amsterdam. 5 cities will really impact our tech rate, so maybe a temple in Thebes is better than another settler. We should keep some :gold: in reserve for a random event.

Why not let Alex build and develop some cities for us? I don't see the need to block him.
 
Solid blue needs fishing to make it viable, and we don't have that yet.

Amsterdam looks like a great place to cottage spam, if we plan on moving our capitol there.
But, we really need some axes to counter Alex's phalanx.
 
750BC (130):

Preflight check. Look at Amsterdamn and move the citizen from the unmined forested plains hill to the mined grassland hill. 1f/3h instead of just 3h. Now only starving off one food per turn.

Thebes... uh... Has a citizen spec... I mouseover the GPP bar, and see he used to be a scientist. Reassigning him as a scientist doesn't help our research rate that much (at least with mono), so I put him back to work. Settler cut down to 9 turns.

Memphis looks good with production.

Notice the settler is standing unguarded right next to Alex's Phalanx. There's also a War Chariot waiting beside it that still has one move. Move it over so as Alex is not tempted...

725BC (131):

Chariot and Settler move 1S to the hollow purple site. Notice that it is one of the few forests in that city area, oh well.

Next turn Mono comes in, unfortunately I notice we DON'T have Islam in Amsterdam, so Organized Religion will do nothing, unless we wait for a missionary to build after we adopt organized.

Alex apparently has his Galleys out already.

Spoiler :
set3alexgalley.jpg


700BC (132):

Mono comes in. Start hunting in 3, and then we'll finish off Alphabet. Switched to OR.

Memphis is conveniently done its settler, and starts a missionary in... 5. We could whip it, but it'll eat 2 pop. I'll check back for when it takes one pop.

Found Heliopolis on Hollow Purple. Hunting drops down to 2 turns with the extra research from Heli... but it's eating lots of maintenance. It needs a courthouse but has no production whatsoever, so it'll take 180 turns O.o. Start it on it. Hopefully we can get the horde of workers over here soon.

Spoiler :
set3heliopolis.jpg


Move the newly completed settler towards the site SW of Amsterdam. Unfortunately, we're eggshell thin, and have very few units. Will try and remedy that. It's no good founding cities if we have nothing to defend them.

675BC (133):

Abu Bakr born far away. That's nice. I expect to see some religious building completed next turn.

Memphis down to 1 pop for the whip. Whip the Missonary.

Find out that I walked a worker onto a prechopped Forest. O.o

650BC (134):

Hunting comes in. Going to finish off Alphabet before looking at the next tech choice.

Start on badly needed Axeman in Memphis.

Our settler is approaching the next city site, but we bleed maintenance badly. After founding, we'll probably be at -20something GPT at 100%. Therefore, I'm going to stall the settler in Thebes and let it grow. Switch it with the barracks (which has been long put off).

625BC (135):

Workers are waiting on prechopped forests for when I use the missionary next turn. Settler and war chariot are on the new city site.

600BC (136):

Islaming Amsterdamn drops two turns off the build time (from 18 to 16). 3 chops this turn drop it to 8 turns. (229 production added this turn)

Found Elephantine and wince at the science. Scroll it down to 90%. It starts on a courthouse in 36 turns thanks to its exclusive copper.

Spoiler :
set3elephantine.jpg


Cottage finished in Thebes. Huh? Thebes had 5 cottages and now has 6, with only one being worked... Thebes is fine the way it is, with too many improved tiles and not enough people to use them. The worker heads north to more barren landscapes.

575BC (137):

Alphabet comes in. Dial up Alex, but all he's willing to part with is Fishing (88 beakers). He'll give it up for Mysticism, which is 111 beakers. The difference is not huge, and I'd rather trade than waste time researching.

Spoiler :
set3alextrade.jpg


Pick IW as the next tech, because it's essential to get our new cities up and running. Alex has it, but doesn't want to trade it, along with Archery. I have a bad feeling about that.

550BC (138):

Alexander has completed... The Great Lighthouse! That's a relief. Oh and our science rating plummented to 30% with all our defecit spending. Last chop this turn ensures mids next turn. Still have 4 forests around Amsterdam.

Memphis Axe is done, heading for Heliopolis. Start on another Axe.

525BC (139):

Spoiler :
set3mids.jpg


Take on Representation.

Tempted to start courts in Amsterdam, because it's running 4.4 maintenance. However, the food situation isn't the greatest with just a corn. So go for a quicker granary so it can fill up to the new pop height.

Assigning Scientist Specs to Thebes while we have the huge food surplus.

500BC (140):

Sparta gets Islamed.

Heliopolis gets its border pop, so anxious workers start mining. Large swathes of its territory are unusable due to the jungle right now though.


Alright, got the mids, got Memphis working on axes. Our power rating isn't great compared to Alex though. The north needs IW to clear cut jungles and get productive, and I would consider hiring more scientist specs to get it done faster (since our commerce rate just took a dump with the new cities).

We've got plenty of workers, and I'd start mass pulling them to Heliopolis to cottage the hell out of the area to save our economy.

Spoiler :
set3map.jpg


EDIT: Someday I'll remember the roster...

1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver <-- Just Played
3: Madtown ** Up Now **
4: playshogi <-- On Deck
5: tiberion02
 

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Have a look at the power chart. Is Alex friendly? No? Build axes everywhere starting now (phalanx +100% vs war chariots as I'm sure you're aware).
 
Sweet, we got the mids after all. Good set S.ilver :goodjob:

Got it, but I haven't checked the save yet.

Will post later with comments. Probably won't play for 24 hrs.
 
I'm going to agree with pigswill here. We just got the copper hooked up in the middle of my turnset, but whatever you do, ALWAYS keep building axes. Memphis is actually not much good for anything other than production, so keep it on axes. Alex looks like he doubles us on the power graph.

I'm a little concerned that Alex is hoarding both IW and Archery. Archery provides us with the only real cheap and effective solution to Alex's Phalanxes. Horse Archers would crush the Phalanxes, but again, it needs Archery AND horseback riding.
 
I'm not worried about Alex, yet. He's far away and has some room to expand. I'd think he would attack Navajo first. Of course, a building a few axes doesn't hurt.

Getting fishing from him was a coup. Maybe he has contact with more civs?

Let's not forget about using caste system for GM's to fund our research on turns we are not whipping anything.
 
Good set silver. Sorry about the couple of :smoke: there. (Especially the cottage)
I thought the settler was safe enough as there was no chance of a barb popping up amidst all the units there. I didn't think Alex would declare until he'd ran out of space to occupy. But, yes, it would have made more sense to get a chariot there sooner.

I knew we needed a missionary in there, first, I was thinking of going to do a 2 person chop but we got the mids anyway.

I was actually planning on stationing the settlers in their city location util we had the economy, or units, or workers & techs to make them useful. I was building the settlers where I could as we there seemed little point in building warriors or chariots when copper was close. I think I should have explained it in my turn set report. :crazyeye:


We do need loads of axes. The chariots are nerfed now except against barbs. I'd like to see at least one turn of axe every cities build queue, so we can whip if/when we need to. I'd actually have gone into police state now we have the mids, not representation, at least until we had some axes out there. Still, that's not a huge deal.


:hammer2:

I will not play when too tired to think properly.
I will not play when too tired to think properly.
I will not play when too tired to think properly.
I will not play when too tired to think properly.
I will not play when too tired to think properly.
I will not play when too tired to think properly.

:hammer2:
 
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