sc:01 Moddern war

No worries.
this is a got it, and I'm playing now.

The current roster is. a bit up in the air, but I'll lay it out like this for now.

ROSTER
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown <-- Just Played --
1: Simon_c **Playing now**
5: Mighty Dwarf <-- Up on deck --
4: Quotey
 
Simon, I can take it tommorow, assuming you get done today. It was a simple loose connection in the case, I must have dislodged it moving it.
 
A slow work day, (half of Europe off cos of mayday yesterday)
so here's the posting.


Turn 0 1780AD

Check most of the stuff I said in the earlier post.

Turn 1: 1782
Humm.
power_levels.jpg

Tacitus thinks we're not the most powerful nation in the world.
power_start.jpg

Looks like He's right.


Any spare workers are set to build railroads. 1) in between cities, then 2) on any mines/lumber mills


Turn 2: 1784
We've got some destroyers in the west. Not sure how many me want at this stage?

Turn 3: 1786

I've switched Thebes and Athens specialists over to merchants. I figured a GM would be good for Sid Sushi with the amount of see food we have. there'll be about a 30% chance in 29 turns, or a 90% chance in around 50 or so turns at Athens or we could swap helio around now from spies to merchants.

Do we care about Sids Sushi or Cereal Mills?

Turn 4: 1788
France demands the world map.

degaul_damnds_map.jpg


lol.
Not today thank you.

Go exploring yourself.
OOOoo Scary. The Holy Roman empire got a musket-man random event giving them many many musketmen.
And then it crashed.... when I looked at the event log.
Reloaded from the autosave at the start of this turn. and no random events for others yet. Oh well.

I send half our destroyers round to the east coast as the infrastructure there isn't online yet.


turn 5: 1790
“I've been working on the rail road...”

Looks like France has established a city on an island that is obviously ours. He will be made to pay.

So will Hammurabi as he's done the same.

turn 6: 1792
Electricity in. What to do next...
Obviously we want industrialism, but we also want artillery, and flight.
But, I think a detour into Fascism is worth it. MtRushmore would be a nice addition to our wonders

The pentagon finishes.

turn 7: 1794
We get two offers of iron for oil. (it ain't happening) But where has our iron gone ?
Ahh, we're being offered it cos Mining Inc can make use of it. I see.

pig_iron.jpg


Liz will take Pigs for Iron, which is nice.

The air ships do make good recon, but is there any way to automate it ? It's a real ping having to fly them round every turn just to check for ships. I do which there was an option of “show friendly moves, but not the silly ones where troops walk around in circles. Only show the ones that may threaten me.” Or even better yet, only show water movements.
I used to station a line of ships in the mid ocean, but even on sentury, the inter-turn only wakes them up if it's someone you're actually at war with. An entire armada will sale past and your captains just wave.

turn 8: 1796
more rail roading. More garrison infantry building. more deleting old troops.

Er, why did we build a fort to access the oil near Mendes ? It's in range of a city so a well would provide some hammers. The Whales near Mendes are not being farmed either. Add a workboat to the queue of a nearby city.


Isabella's caravel is sneaking around. That probably means spy activity.

We probably sould send some spies out to do counter espionage.

turn 9: 1798
Fascism in. Set for Artillery. As that is the last bit we need before we can take the war to other continents. We do need lots and LOTS more troops, boats etc.

I just noticed we still have poor rail links in the north.

turn 19: 1800

We've got about 4 or 5 destroyers per coast. How many do we want ? 6 then some battle ships ? BTW, ships are coming out of the docs with 10 exp now :).
I guess it takes about 8 destroyers to reduce the fortifications of a coastal town to 0 in one turn.

Giza is producing Mt Rushmore now. 3 turns for it.

And that's about it.

Still a slow buildup.

Here's some pics of the “State of the World”

Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg




We're top in everything, except for approval rate and life expectancy. I guess that's the polution that we still haven't got a handle on. Oh, and DeGaul still has more troops. (only they are about 300 years older than our new troops). It's quite funny sending an infantry unit to relieve and old spear unit in garrison dutie :-)

We've got 4 times the production of any rival.

Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg


DeGaul is still climbing. but we're back in our rightful place at the top of the power graph.

Any sane battle plan would have us going over there now and kicking the carp out of him before he can upgrade his units :devil:, but we want a challenge, so we need a foe with modern units too. :crazyeye:

So, our target is west.
It's clear Izzy should be first. and then move north.
I think we should raise her coastal cities, then take Madrid and Barcelona. Ultimately we should create a colony out of the western continent.
So, the questions are,
do we do it without air cover or Tanks + Artillery only ? (with marines for coastal assult) We could need the aircraft carriers with fighters to protect against airships.

Do we accept vassalage from the current Ais ? Or wipe them out and out our own one in there ?
Do we raise her cities, or will that give a chance for other Ais to just create new cities ?
We could just pump enough troops in there to old the line and declare on anyone trying to get behind our lines to put a new city down ? Actually, that could increase the challenge a little. How about we must irradiate all AI cities, no surrender. (Could get tedious I guess)
 
Save and roster:

ROSTER
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown
1: Simon_c <-- Just Played --
4: Quotey **Playing now**
5: Mighty Dwarf <-- Up on deck --

Anyone any objections to keeping playing in this order ? Or should we swap round again ?
 
Checked the save, things look real good.

As for the imminent invasion of the rest of the world, I say no vassals, no colonies.

If were going to wait for CdG to get strong and provide soem competition, then we might as well have some fun and play with our big brass balls hanging real low.

I propose we raze all cities except 2, probably Aachen and York. Will this be more difficult? Yes. Will the enemy try to resettle the land? Yes. Will we re-raze their cities when planted? Yes.

It's not a neverending battle though. Once a critical amount of damage has been done to the AI's on that continent, they will no longer be able to build settlers fast enough to circumvent our destructive power. Additionally, this will allow us to avoid the hassle of colonies or vassals, while still keeping an eye on the territory with those last 2 cities (Aachen and York). Once the continent has been wiped clean, we can just push our western naval scout-net into the next further ocean, essentially blockading both shores of the CdG/Hammy landmass.

Given our impressive lead in this game, if were going for conquest an all-out raze fest is the only appropriate course, IMO.
 
Good turns Simon! We'll want to start thinking about our invasion strategy pretty soon. I'll look at the save before chiming in about that though.

Regarding Cereal Mills vs Sid's Sushi, Sushi wins, at least in my opinion. Sushi utilizes more resources than Cereal does, and they are sea based resources, making them easy to hook up (although they might be tough to defend in a war). Cereal is more efficient per resource (+0.75 food rather than +0.5 food for sushi), but we have many more sea based resources. Check the corporation screen and you'll see. Sushi gives us +8 food per city, while Cereal only gives +4.

Regarding the fort on the oil by Mendes, I did that during my turnset. The logic behind that is that oil is revealed by scientific method, but you can't build a well on it until combustion. However, it is immediately useful upon discovering combustion, if a fort is built on it to connect it in advance (which you can't do with a well). Since a well takes 15 turns for 1 worker to build, that is 15 turns earlier you have oil. It was probably :smoke: for me to build that fort though, seeing as we already HAD an oil under a fort at Avaris.

About Giza, I disagree with putting Mt. Rushmore there. The city is our ironworks city, so I'd prefer getting Red Cross in there, so that all eligible units build there get medic I, which will definitely be useful in our coming invasions. Rushmore can go anywhere really, since it provides empire wide effects, and we're in no rush to build it (pun intended).
 
First off... there's a bunch of MMing that needs to be done to our cities. Some weird specs and such are hired, and we need to fix some of the yo-yo food problems. But since I said I'd talk invasion strategy, I'll leave that for another post.

I had to laugh when I loaded the save and saw the cities on our islands by De Gaulle and Hammurabi. We'll have to capture them later, but it saves us settlers.

Ok, so had a look at some foreign data (starting to really like EPs). Hammurabi and Liz are the closest to us with techs (realized something... did Liz not want to trade fascism to us? She had it before we did). Also taking a peek in the enemy cities... England has Infantry and Machine Guns. So we cannot go in with just Artillery. We need Industrialism and Marines (tanks are good too).

Izzy and Darius have Rifles and Cavs, not a huge deal with infantry and machine guns, and Charlie has Rifles. So we're really only worried about taking England. Seeing as we are killing everyone in Mfg. Goods, we probably don't need to worry too much about that either, but Industrialism would be a good idea.

I'm not sure about razing out the entire Spanish continent though. I mean, if we're looking to be masochistic, I guess it makes sense. However, we could profit a lot by keeping select portions of that continent. There's a beautiful river network running through most of England and Persia, and there's nothing like it on our continent. That could EASILY be put to work as a production powerhouse to build an army for use against De Gaulle. We'd also be able to flank him by doing so.

To that end, I think we should be looking to keep Susa, Persepolis, Pasargade, Mainz, Hastings, York, London, Nottingham, and Saxon. Saxon contains Versailles as well, so that will help with distance maintenance. That entire area is pretty much flatland dotted with a few hills, so we can workshop and watermill the place out, and ship over execs to make it into a full time production center. Also probably want to keep Augsburg and Aachen, because that's 5 metals for Mining Inc right there.

I'd be in favour of razing anything else though, because Spain and northern HRE and pretty food poor.
 
To that end, I think we should be looking to keep Susa, Persepolis, Pasargade, Mainz, Hastings, York, London, Nottingham, and Saxon. Saxon contains Versailles as well, so that will help with distance maintenance. That entire area is pretty much flatland dotted with a few hills, so we can workshop and watermill the place out, and ship over execs to make it into a full time production center. Also probably want to keep Augsburg and Aachen, because that's 5 metals for Mining Inc right there.

Only one problem with this: colonial maintenance.

Once you go above 4-5 cities on a separate landmass the colonial maintenance makes the territory not worth the costs. Using SP won't help either as it does not affect colony maintenance AFAIK, besides that would void mining Inc benefits.

We either have to raze all but a couple of cities and defend the empty territory, or plan to set up puppet regimes.
 
What magnitude of colonial costs would we be talking about? I haven't gotten to the colony stage in any game higher than noble, so I'm unsure of what we would be facing. I feel that our economy is in pretty good shape though, and that territory is very nice, along with Versailles already being built there. I would be looking at it from more of a production standpoint as well, as opposed to an economic one.
 
I'm going to be quite strict on the 24hr to post a "got it" at the moment, because we seem to be stalling. So, Quotey, you're skipped. sorry.

Mighty Dwarf You're up and the clock is ticking.

ROSTER
2: S.ilver <-- Up on deck --
3: Madtown
1: Simon_c <-- Just Played --
4: Quotey ** Skipped **
5: Mighty Dwarf **Playing now**
 
I think Colonial costs go through the roof at 5 cities. 500 gpt or more.

But, I *think* having Versailles (or 2nd capitol, whatever it's called) on the continent can stop it. I'm not sure though.
 
Oh yeah, I noticed something. The assigned merchants at Thebes and Athens were unnecessary... because Navajo will pop a GP first! (in 9 turns from the save) It's already heavily weighted towards a Great Merchant, but hire more merchants there and fire other specs.

EDIT: I'm also skeptical about the colonial expenses. I don't believe it can be as ludicrous as you guys are saying. Granted, it was played at noble, but I had around 16 cities on another continent, and the colonial expenses in a size 12 city was about 10 gold (slash that using the courthouse), and seems to favour growing the cities, because a size 1 city costs me 2 gold. The corporation payment for one corp for the city was bigger. I'm only proposing we keep 11 cities, and Versailles is built there, so that slashes distance maintenance. I don't think it will hurt our economy if we keep them, and it gives us excellent cities to retool into production centers. The east coast cities can probably be set up for commerce to pay for the colony.
 
Simon, I can take it tommorow, assuming you get done today. It was a simple loose connection in the case, I must have dislodged it moving it.

I assumed this counted as a got it- sorry for not posting one afterwards (I shuuld have posted yesterday). Anyway... I played already.

In response to the colonial maint.: Colonial Maintenence is capped at 2x the distance from capital maintenence. Since SP means 0 distance maintenence, clonial maintenence is also reduced. Those smart commies! So we could go into SP if we can lose Mining Inc- we probably could.

Or we could turn research off after Flight.

Save in this post, next post is report.
 

Attachments

Turn 0 (410)

I go through the cities, forgoing Merchants for Scientists, and a few engineers and priests for scientists to get Artillery in 3 turns.

Turn 1 (411)

Since I assume we are sending our Diplo to hell, I say NO to Charlemagne's request to switch to Vassalage. He bares his green teeth and shakes his fist at us with eyes popping.

Right everyone, the east army will be based in Elephantine.

I'm not a fan of having destroyers floating about, because then I'd have to manage them each turn, or give them a round the world goto.

Our west army will be based in Abydos, unless there are better ideas.

Turn 2 (412)

You know, if Avaris was 1S I think we could have made a canal. Right now it's useless.

The canal line in the north is a funny idea, but it doesn't work. I'm gonna try and make it work.

Turn 3 (413)

Artillery in, Flight in 7. For FIGHTERS. I let Mt Rushmore complete in Giza- we have our Medic Knight, and will get another GG by the time we start on the West.

Turn 5 (415)

We discover GOLD near Elephantine. Yay?

Turn 8 (418)

A Great Engineer is born. He can bulb Industrialism (some of it), found Creative Constructions (we don't want this) or maybe even rush an Infantry (or Broadway is we really want it. Giza can 6 turnt the thing)

So I stop early. We could even settle the guy somewhere- Amsterdam?
 
Hmm, was going to be my got it from 1800, but looks like Quotey jumperd in.

My thoughtsd from that save I suppose still hold.

If we have GE maybe best to let him bulb Industrialism, not best use but if Broadway is the best he can build then either bulb or settle him somewhere.

We are going to need Flight and Industrialism before invasion. I would have gone for Industrialism before flight as planes are easier to get in position than tanks and marines.

Do we have any thoughts on rough numbers (apart from as many as possible)of the following we need-:

Infantry
Artillery
Tanks
Marines

I think 2 Carriers of fighters will be enough to cover our troops from airships.
From what I saw it seemed only Charlie had any sort of serious navy we will need to contend with on that side of continent so apart from airship annoyance we should be ok.

We have a number of CR promoted swords/axes/cats left we should look to upgrade these where possible.

Lastly should we forest preserv over the lumbermills at Pithom. This would give us more specialists now NE and NP are finished.
 
Plastics is also right after industrialism. We could save him and use him to speed up Three Gorges (which Giza can probably build in a trivial amount of time anyways...).

EDIT: Also, the point of this game is Modern Warfare, and we're not actually there yet, just priming for it. We don't want to be shutting down our research or anything like that.
 
A GE not a GM. Grrrr.

I say save him for three Gorges. Get the continent electrified up almost overnight.

We might want 1 or 2 turns of cash to upgrade the CR promoted troops, and to promote the medic to a helicopter when we can.

I'd still like to get a GM if we can

I think if we keep Versailles then the maintenance will be OK, but we should prioritise getting that first.

Here's the roster. Mighty, I'm assuming your post is a "got it"

ROSTER
2: S.ilver <-- Up on deck --
3: Madtown
1: Simon_c
4: Quotey <-- Just Played --
5: Mighty Dwarf **Playing now**
 
Is it just me, or is this game slowing down? Still in regulation, but slowing down...
 
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