Scenario building in Civ 3-6. Possible?

I am an ostrich. My head has been in the sand for many years when it comes to new versions of Civilization. I bought Civ 3 and didn't like it for various reasons, not the least of which is I couldn't figure out how to make a real scenario. By that I mean a custom map with custom civilizations with custom units and custom tech trees. Events that create specific units at specific locations at specific times, and move them according to plan and attack specific nations according to plan. Ability to give or take technologies, change terrain or make aggression according to plan. And all the other stuff ToT events (with Patch Project) can do.

My question is this: has any version of Civilization after Civ2 ToT been able to do all that? Are there post-ToT version historical scenarios like Red Front, Operation Market Garden, Lord of the Rings, or Napoleon? I don't mean just mods, but realistic scenarios on accurate maps with accurate orders of battle and realistic results. I'd like to hear from folks that have delved into more recent versions of the game, if they care to respond. Thank you.

 

Civ 4, 5, and 6 are heavily built around colourful historic Civ leaders, with bonuses, special units, special improvements, special techs, special abilities, a Wonder maybe, and AI behaviour (kind of like SMAC, but even moreso). Editing graphics, tech trees, improvments, terrain, units, etc., practically requires a programming diploma from a technical college. Scenarios are VERY difficult to do - most custom projects are just mods. Scripted events do not appear in 3-6 - apparently, Sid Meier and Brian Reynalds, who left MPS to found Firaxis, didn't like them and it was two other guys at MPS who had added them to Civ2 "over Sid's protests." There you go, Tech. The ugly report.

 

Hi Tech,

If you go to the CivFanatics download section here, I believe you will find, in diminishing numbers based on the Civ version, a whole series of scenarios based on different historical periods. I've purchased and played all Civilization platforms up to V. Versions IV and V certainly have scenarios but as Patine indicated the more interesting projects, for me personally, where the different mods created by the community members.

Furthermore, as he indicated , when it comes to scenario designing, the complexity and difficulty rises exponentially the more recent the platform. The graphics alone require some advanced level of graphics software programming skills (it's extremely unlikely one would be able to tweak or modify icons like one can in Civ 2 without this knowledge base).

 

I think the later versions of CIV lost the genius elegance and simplicity of CIV2.
In these other editions, even gettting a scenario loaded was like a manhattan project.

I'll stick with 1990s static graphical goodness.

 

techumseh, I think there will not be many answers in this thread from modders, that have done mods/scenarios outside Civ 2, as most of the newer modders - and it seems Firaxis, too - have forgotten to be aware of the advantages of versions of the civ series coming before Civ 4. Many posts show, that their civ horizone starts with Civ 4, where my Civ world ends, as I really don´t like those 3D graphics and the table top presentation, that in my eyes is not the best solution for a strategy game.

The 'post-ToT historical' C3C scenario SOE (Storm over Europe) until now in my eyes is the best scenario about WW2 in Europe of the complete civ series, especially when considering OOBs. The scenario holds more than 1,000 different unit types, 512 cities and here you can read more about the OOB.
It also holds some Civ 2 graphics for minor cities. SOE at CFC only has about 70,000 views as we had a special site for it (the SOC site) and with the closing of the SOC site some years ago this scenario is not available to the public since a longer time.

Spoiler :

Civ 2 was pure genius and introduced the - in my eyes - most important feature of the civ series: Modding

When Civ 3 came up, I had a long fight with myself, if I should continue only modding Civ 2 ToT, or if I should mod Civ 3 - at the end I decided to do both, but the focus was on Civ 3, as I really like these nice animated units coming with Civ 3. The other side of the medal - and a heavy setback for me - was the missing of the Civ 2 events and I also didn´t like the cartoonish style, that was getting more and more worse with every following version of the Civ series, changing the serious historical direction of the game in Civ 2 to a kind of a 'Mickey Mouse' game. Here you can read, what I have posted about that topic more than 10 years ago: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/alarming-silence-of-firaxis.246561/page-12#post-6082150

This said, until now I´m missing the events coming with Civ 2, that make creating historical scenarios so much easier. Per example in the C3C SOE scenario I had to transform the techtree into a calendar and to set 'immobile base units' at some special locations, where they were able to upgrade to the units that are needed later in the scenario, when they in reality did appear. Another workaround for missing events in Civ 3 was the option introduced with C3C, that buildings can produce units in adjustable intervalls with adjustable perequisites. On the other hand even some smaller features of Civ 2, like Civ 2 helicopters, a bonus for units attacking citywalls, barbarians that can hold cities, caravans and units for spies and diplomats, are unfortunately missing in Civ 3.

I´m really exited about the cornucopia of possibilities coming by the TheNamelessOne and TOTPP. On the other hand I would really appreciate, if there would be the possibility for animated units showing a defense animation and an 'enmovement' function for different soundfiles when these units are moving.
As a version of Civ 3 with events will never come, I hope there will come a time for completly animated units (even defense animations !) with Civ 2 ToT. I have not forgotten Prof. Garfield´s great thread '[TOTPP] Get Started With Lua Events' and will come back to it, when RL allows me to do so.

 

I have experience modding Civ2–4, so here's a comparison at-a-glance:

Civ3 is a mixed bag. It does not feature scriptable events like 2 or 4+, and as Civinator mentions, does not have equivalencies for several Civ2 mechanics. Its barbarian faction is also extremely limited in what it can do: beyond pre-placed forces it can only spawn three rules-defined units (2 land, 1 ship) and can't control cities. It is, however, what I consider the last 'noob-friendly' game in terms of modding, as it has a companion GUI editor that handles the main rules definitions. Civ-specific units (and customized upgrade paths) are easy to implement, and some clever modders have figured out tricks to craft faction-specific tech trees using a better method than Firaxis' own designers. Sort of like Civ2, the best scenarios involve elaborate workarounds to engine limitations to emulate a scripted design (perhaps most outstandingly, the Escape from Zombie Island project). There are parameters for permanent alliances and/or permanent war, although these are limited to a maximum of four blocs and last for the whole game. There's nothing that lets you actively micromanage a game-in-progress—you set up the start and hope for the best.

Civ4's engine is much more robust and theoretically capable of anything LUA can do, the difference being you're scripting in Python. The Road to War included in the official expansion features elements like ranged artillery, automatic counterstrikes, and can even lock diplomacy to the historical WWII timeline. Modding itself isn't quite as daunting as Patine makes it out, but it requires knowledge of XML formatting, which is scattered across multiple rules documents and text-definition files that cross-reference each other, meaning half the adventure is figuring out everything you need to change. Some of the mechanics are less intuitive than Civ3 (namely, how civ-unique features are swapped in for the generics), though I've seen some scenarios with fully-divergent customized unit lines. There's certainly a lot more customizability to AI behaviour. Particularly ambitious modders can even introduce new rules through DLL modding, though that's way beyond my expertise.

Then there's Freeciv, which manages to simultaneously be as simple as Civ2 and as mind-numbingly obtuse as Civ4. I still can't properly port ToT-style graphics without breaking the UI.

 

Hi Gedemon,

I just wanted to say how I was a big fan of your work. I can't say how often I used your YnAEMP map pack or R.E.D mod in conjunction with this or that other mod in Civ 5. They have provided me countless hours of playing enjoyment.

So thank you for your work!

 

Yep, me too with RED. Thanks and good job