[GS] Science victory - GS - Elimination thread

[bengalryan9]

1. Alexander/Macedon [10] (9+1) No mountains? Build troops. No reefs? Build troops. Nobody near by to war with? Build troops.
10. Frederick/Germany [9] (12-3) Does seem to be coming up short compared to others since you don't actually need all that production to get to space. Which is pretty silly, but it is what it is.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [34]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [24]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [36]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

Borrowed from @Victoria 's GotM78

Obviously this is well done with the mechanics being how they are, but it does really show why I think chopping is a pretty silly mechanic. What are they doing, building the rocket out of wood? Not faulting players for taking advantage of it or anything, just doesn't make any sense lol.

 

[enKage]

1. Alexander/Macedon [10]
10. Frederick/Germany [6] 9-3 Locking districts, yes. But it disables discounts. Other civs, including Korea with better farms, can simply grow quicker. Hansa is OP in terms of production, but regional effect is still the same and is not a gamebraker when the most expensive spaceship projects can be chopped. The only SV advantage I can see here is using hansa adjecency bonus to quickly build campus buildings, but Mali, Cree, Phoenicia, Persia, England or even America with endless DF can buy it quicker and England can take even more benefit from them. Sincerely, I don't know what Germany does in top10, many better civs were eliminated IMO, unless I am fully unaware of some unknown to me mechanism
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [34]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [24]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [37] 36+1 Much time has passed since my last ypvote, but what I DO really like in Korea (and what is totally skipped in this thread) is bonus food to farm/farm triangles, so I can grow to pop 10 quicker than most civs left, allowing earlier double benefit from rationalism
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

 

[lotrmith]

1. Alexander/Macedon [7]10 - 3 We're at the point where I feel it's appropriate to eliminate Alex if for no other reason than his unit build > delete is cheese, pure and simple.
10. Frederick/Germany [7] 6 + 1 The midgame production from Hansas is nice for getting up things like universities while simultaneously ripping through the great engineer list to lock in guys like Goddard in time for them to make a difference in your space race. The wonder rushing engineers are icing on the cake, great for things like Big Ben. Also we value Mausoleum specifically for the 2x engineer charge.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [34]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [24]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [37]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

 

[Lily_Lancer]

1. Alexander/Macedon [10]
10. Frederick/Germany [3=6-3] Assume Deity difficulty, then CS start with walls , greatly reduces the strength of Germany. (However, most of Germany's power still comes from CS +7 strength)
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26=25+1] Although Ziggurats values less as there exist Alcanzar or Moai which can be built by any Civ, War Carts do accelerate early development quite a lot.
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [34]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [24]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [37]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

 

[Lamington]

1. Alexander/Macedon [7]
10. Frederick/Germany [4]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [34]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [24]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [38]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

Not a vote, just correcting some errors.

 

[Tabarnak]

1. Alexander/Macedon [4] (7-3) What if you start isolated? Can be an average civ from time to time
10. Frederick/Germany [4]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [34]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [25] (24+1) Can't go wrong with mountain starts. Food boost is nice too but not op
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [38]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

 

[Bangau]

1. Alexander/Macedon [4]
10. Frederick/Germany [1] (4-3) Good general CIV, extra policy slot and extra district can be very useful in a SV but less strong than the rest of the civs remaining.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [35] (34+1) Very strong and 'easily executed' bonuses to all kinds of things useful for a SV. Definitely top 3.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [25]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [38]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

 

[kryat]

1. Alexander/Macedon [4]
10. Frederick/Germany [1]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [36] (35+1) Better average adjacency than Korea can manage. Sometimes gets half price districts if someone declares war on him, or if he’s feeling generous. Gets absurd housing in coastal cities. And has an outstanding UI. Aus is very strong.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [25]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [38]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12] (15-3) Rivers don’t always run next to mountains and geothermal vents. There’s a big difference between a +2 campus and a +3 campus.

 

[bengalryan9]

1. Alexander/Macedon [5] (4+1) If you start isolated, you build troops. You get science for building troops. You don't need to conquer to get science, you just need to build troops. No adjacencies? No problem. Build troops. Cheesy? Not any cheesier than insta-chopping a rocket made of to send to space. It's in the game, it's a valid mechanic. Build troops! If you do have neighbors and you feel like going to war, you'll just snowball even more.
10. Frederick/Germany [eliminated] (1-3) Weakest left IMO.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [36]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [25]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [38]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [12]

 

[Leucarum]

Edited: Thanks @kryat for spotting my error

1. Alexander/Macedon [5]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
20. John Curtin/Australia [36]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22] 25-3 - it's getting tough now. We're really sorting out the A tier from the S tier. I'd say Pacha is more A than S but it's close.
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [38]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [13] 12+1 - the adjacency bonus from.dutch river districts usually ends up as +3 since you'll usually settle next to a river. The additional boosts to theatre squares and industrial zones are just gravy for a science victory. A little map dependent but rivers are one of the commonest features. You don't get the district discount that Korea does, but still strong.

 

[kryat]

@Leucarum, Frederick was already eliminated in the previous vote

 

[Akawashi]

1. Alexander/Macedon [5]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17] (16+1) He will be gone soon, so i will get him one more point. Perfect start is not denying his bonus (still it will be +6 instead +5 campus). Besides with perfect start every civ can go for SV. And it is always useful for especially Commercial Hubs, Harbours and Industrial Zones as they are naturally placed next to other districts. There was one good point as Japan can get problems with food (though it happens so rarely - 90% of times I had housing problems), but 7 pop is not hard to get for trade routes with +3/4 food (Holy Site+Campus/Goverment Plaza in your capital probably). If someone knows what to do, you cannot fail with them.
20. John Curtin/Australia [36]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35] (38-3) Well, I agree Seondeok is very strong in SP (because AI is really bad), but in MP she is perfect to rush as Seowon is isolated (no zoc or mountains) and surrounded by mines and farms (pillage them all). Additionaly you wanna cities less cluster, which only helps warmongers (and can create loyalty problems). Later on Korea (if survived) is primary target for every spy and has hard time to counter it. Stealing tech boost? Sure, why not. Still neutralize governor or forment unrest missions can hurt her more. And one more thing, which does not really matter. It's just irritating for me - starting near geothermal fissure (like seriously?).
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [13]

 

[Ondolindë]

1. Alexander/Macedon [5]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33] (36-3) It is really fun to play them and it certainly can be powerful, but should not be at the top, maybe top 3...maybe.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [23] (22+1) I must say that Firaxis fixed how the Incas spawn and in my experience they do close to mountains which gives them a reliable advantage to increase their production and to have excellent sites for Campuses and if you play smart, for Holy Sites. This is huge on top of the absolute rapid growth potential with terrace farms.
34. Qin/China [29]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [13]

 

[Victoria]

1. Alexander/Macedon [5]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [23]
34. Qin/China [30] (29+1) You can adjust with a wonder, pick a wonder, any wonder.
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10] (13-3) Just do not enjoy playing them. It comes down to adjacency and not much else.

 

[enKage]

1. Alexander/Macedon [6] 5+1 Extremely terrain independent. And this is important with no start bias. China and Japan don't have start bias too. China on bad map is dead, and Japan starts its science later than Macedon on maps with no science features.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [20] 23-3 I feel very bad every time I have to downvote Inca. One of the most enjoyable civs in the whole civ history, but others left have better cards to win SV earlier
34. Qin/China [30]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10]

 

[lotrmith]

1. Alexander/Macedon [3] 6 - 3 Too bad Germany is gone so the top 5 won't be so pure, but Macedon just doesn't belong there. Spamming units while you have barracks for xp bonus, crazy strong UUs (two of them!) one of which helps additionally churn out GGs and double-dips their bonus, and crazy bonuses for conquering cities... but choosing to ignore all that and delete the units instead? Rubbish.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [21] 20 + 1 Pacha will have more and higher adjacency campuses on average than Netherlands or Japanese cities, and they don't have to ramp up that adjacency slowly as Japan does. Pacha > Hojo
34. Qin/China [30]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10]

 

[Lily_Lancer]

1. Alexander/Macedon [7=6+1]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [17=20-3] Good starting bias yea, others nay.
34. Qin/China [30]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10]

Moderator Action: In future, please provide reasons for your votes. leif

 

[bengalryan9]

Lily's got the wrong numbers, the next person should use these:

1. Alexander/Macedon [4]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [26]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [18]
34. Qin/China [30]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

1. Alexander/Macedon [0] (3-3) I've upvoted him every time before but now I have to downvote because I think it's time for him. If you're getting eurekas by conquering, you're going to eventually win a domination victory. Eliminated.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [27] (26+1) Just finished a science victory with him today. My 2nd fastest time ever. Now I'm not sure how much was him and how much is just myself getting better with practice, but the easy and quick expansion thanks to war cart conquests and throwing Ziggurats everywhere, really made it a smooth game.
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [21]
34. Qin/China [30]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10]

Moderator Action: Totals adjusted to reflect the elimination of Lily Lancer's votes as he did not provide reasons. leif

 

[kryat]

1. Alexander/Macedon [eliminated] (1-3) Let’s just agree Alex is top 10 material, but isn’t everyone’s cup of tea
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [27]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [33]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [18]
34. Qin/China [30]
37. Seondeok/Korea [36] (35+1) I haven’t upvoted her yet because there was no need to do so. She had a such a runaway lead that a vote for her was a vote wasted that could Gabe gone to figuring out the ranking below her should shake out. Now that we’ve winnowed a bit... she’s probably the best. It’s not just the +4, or the governors. It’s the mines. They’re like having mini zigs surrounding an otherwise great campus. Also, mountains are wasted tiles for everyone except Inca. Korea doesn’t even need to bother with them, so she gets better than average tiles in every city.
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [10]