[GS] Science victory - GS - Elimination thread

[Leucarum]

20. John Curtin/Australia [29] (32-3) Spreading around my downvotes. For what it's worth I have a lot more fun playing Aus than Korea and it seems like that's who he's being compared against.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [14]
34. Qin/China [17] (16+1) Builder charges and superior eurekas are never bad, but especially so for science. So efficient he should be an alt. Leader for Switzerland.
37. Seondeok/Korea [34]

 

[Weraptor]

20. John Curtin/Australia [30] (29+1) Great science, excellent production, decent culture and gold.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [14]
34. Qin/China [14] (17-3) Indirect bonuses, CV is preferable.
37. Seondeok/Korea [34]

 

[Victoria]

20. John Curtin/Australia [27] (30-3) I can get a faster SV with Qin regardless of whether a bonus is direct or indirect.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [14]
34. Qin/China [14]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35] (34+1) super fast half price campus at the start and so quick to build in all your cities. Bonus after bonus guaranteed.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

This is a great top 4. Well done Civfanatics. All of these are deserving to be here, I think at this point it's really down to preference and play style.

20. John Curtin/Australia [27]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [15] (14+1) A straightforward civ that's reliable in taking advantage of all your bonuses.
34. Qin/China [11] (14-3) The early wonders aren't as good for SV as the ones that France gets. Extra charges don't matter when you human sacrifice your builders for space projects. Dynastic cycle send to be his strongest ability, but that does depend on you getting as many eurekas and inspirations as possible.
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]

 

[Minou]

Not that I disagree with the vote, but I thought the extra charge does add 2% more towards projects (so would be 12% instead of 10% assuming +2 charge policy).

 

[Loderingo]

20. John Curtin/Australia [24] 27-3 - Sorry to double down vote but I still think he is more situational than the others
28. Pachacuti/Inca [15]
34. Qin/China [12] 11+1 - Deserves one up vote. Dynastic cycles means China is less terrain dependent
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]

 

[lotrmith]

20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [12] 15 - 3
34. Qin/China [13] 12 + 1
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]

The early wonders are super helpful (Colosseum for the culture and amenities gains, pyramids for the extra builder charge, mausoleum for the extra engineer charge.... and those are ones anyone seeking SV should go for. China can also hurry out other very helpful wonders like Gardens, Machu, Petra, and Apandana). Plus the extra builder charge does indeed contribute to additional project production.

Nevermind the Eureka and Inspiration bonuses, great wall culture gains, and the very strong early boost of all builders having an extra charge (someone said China has no early bonuses???)

I'm annoyed I felt compelled to upvote China to put them back on top of Inca rather than upvote Korea.

 

[enKage]

20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [13] 12+1 Strong early science and faith and Warak'aq madness, enough
34. Qin/China [10] 13-3 To use better Eurekas you need to unlock them first and in science oriented game it is often too fast teching to do it with most of them. Alex is clearly superior in this area. Added builder charge doesn't justify being in top3, especially when you can often roll science unfriendly starts
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]

 

[Ondolindë]

20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [14] 13+1 just amazingly, surprisingly strong and fun in science.
34. Qin/China [7] 10-3 Doesn’t deserve to be in the top three however much I love Wonders.
37. Seondeok/Korea [35]

 

[Icicle]

20. John Curtin/Australia [21] (24-3) This is a super solid top four and you could make a good case that any of these guys deserve to be number one. Australia is a brokenly powerful civ imo, but I think Inca and Qin outdo them in this respect.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [14]
34. Qin/China [7]
37. Seondeok/Korea [36] (35+1) Guys I don't want to brag but I called out Korea being good at science ages ago!

 

[iammaxhailme]

20. John Curtin/Australia [21]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [14]
34. Qin/China [4] = 7 -3 I'm amazed they've gotten into the top five, personally. Over a civ like Arabia or the Dutch? No way.
37. Seondeok/Korea [37] = 36 + 1Do I need to explain myself?

 

[Bangau]

20. John Curtin/Australia [21]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [11] (14-3) They are both great, but what I've seen and experienced places Qin above Pachacuti in my ranking.
34. Qin/China [5] (4+1) The extra builder charges, almost guaranteed some of the useful wonders, and the extra 10% boost to techs and civics just make for a solid SV 'lift off'.
37. Seondeok/Korea [37]

 

[kryat]

20. John Curtin/Australia [21]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [12] (11+1)
34. Qin/China [2] (5-3)
37. Seondeok/Korea [37]

On average, I think terrace farms are more helpful than Great Wall tiles. These dense sources of food will help your cities be larger, giving you greater science and culture from population alone, and critically, help you work more tiles. Even though Great Wall tiles are incredible sources of coin and culture, they limit growth, so working all Great Wall tikes a city could build may be challenging. Even though China will probably have more improved tiles per city thanks to the extra charge, Inca will probably have more worked tiles. I’d estimate the average Incan city to be 1.5-2x larger than the average Chinese city. And Incan cities will likely have better natural adjacency opportunities.

Inca can more strongly leverage the map than China.

 

[Leucarum]

20. John Curtin/Australia [18] (21-3)
28. Pachacuti/Inca [12]
34. Qin/China [3] (2+1)
37. Seondeok/Korea [37]

I was going to shuffle my votes around but wow Qin dropped like a stone. This top 4 is relatively strong but Qin probably should be higher. I hadn't tried him for a science game until this thread but he didn't disappoint. In response to some comments, you don't have to hit all the eurekas for him to still give a big boost and builder charges are huge for science. Australia is good but I don't think there's a runaway 2nd after Korea...

 

[Hokie Fan]

20. John Curtin/Australia [18]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [12]
34. Qin/China [0] (3-3) - ELIMINATED. I had a fantastic deity game with China yesterday where I ended up with virtually all of the good wonders from the ancient/classical era and had one of my fastest peaceful deity victories. My Petra city was amazing. My capital had ~8 wonders and a +10 industrial zone. I had a Great Wall that stretched for ages generating tons of culture. At the end of the game, I had more than 20 wonders. While my science was very good (and possibly the best I've had in a peaceful game), there was virtually no way for me to avoid a CV before a SV short of selling great works. The point is China can be a great civ, but if your game is going well, you're more likely to aim for a CV than a SV, and if the early game didn't go well, your bonuses aren't that impactful for science.
37. Seondeok/Korea [38](37+1) - The least map dependent civ where all of your campuses are guaranteed the rationalism bonus. Two tile island with a hill? That's a seowon. Garbage desert with a hill? That's a seowon. Snow hill surrounded by ice? That's a seowon. I don't like Korea as a civ because they're kind of boring, but if you're going for your first deity victory, Korea basically plays itself.

 

[bengalryan9]

20. John Curtin/Australia [19] (18+1) Higher adjacency campuses, + more culture, + more gold, + more faith, + more production. Even if he only matches Korea in beakers (and I'd argue he can do way more than that) he's so much better at everything else that it's kind of crazy they're 16 points behind them. It's not completely mindless like Korea but is way more effective.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [12]
37. Seondeok/Korea [35] (38-3)

The least map dependent civ where all of your campuses are guaranteed the rationalism bonus. Two tile island with a hill? That's a seowon. Garbage desert with a hill? That's a seowon. Snow hill surrounded by ice? That's a seowon.

No hill in a city? No seowon. Hills only located right next to the city center? Weaker seowons. Gets no bonuses to anything but science, and in a thread where folks went on and on about how important culture, faith, and gold all are she lags behind in all of those areas. Easiest =/= best IMO.

 

[Bliss]

20. John Curtin/Australia [16] (19-3) Start bias usually has no natural protection, so can't ignore military (land and sea). Needs good expansion.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [12]
37. Seondeok/Korea [36] (35+1) Good start bias, usually safe. Can get an edge very early with Seowon and go for a Knight rush, thus, snowballing. Doesnt need much expansion thanks to 3% from governors.

 

[Weraptor]

20. John Curtin/Australia [17] (16+1) Better overall game.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [9] (12-3) Worst one remaining.
37. Seondeok/Korea [36]

Edit: meant to downvote the Inca

 

[Leucarum]

20. John Curtin/Australia [17] (16+1) Better overall game.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [13] (12+1) Worst one remaining.
37. Seondeok/Korea [36]

It looks like you upvoted twice?

 

[SirMediocrity]

I'm going to assume that Weraptor meant to downvote Pachacuti, so I'll start off with the following score:

20. John Curtin/Australia [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [36]

My votes:

20. John Curtin/Australia [18] (17+1) Can get great adjacencies from high appeal tiles. Very versatile in general.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [6] (9-3) Too reliant on mountains.
37. Seondeok/Korea [36]