Scions of Patria?

[tesb]

What would a settled creeper do? (Just act as an observer?)

spread haunted lands, spread unhealth, destroy food resources.

 

[Sephi]

I've got the Horned Dread working. More had been removed than I'd thought - the unit entry is just a marker for the 'pedia.

thanks for the update/fixes

for the AI, which early, midgame, lategame techs should the AI go for?

 

[Tarquelne]

for the AI, which early, midgame, lategame techs should the AI go for?

Scions are a bit infamous for being all over the place with techs.
I'm not sure how the AI selects techs, so I'm not sure how to describe this.

Very Early:
Mining. (Scions want hammers.)
Masonry. (If there are P. Artifacts around. Esp. if there are multiple P. Artifacts around.)
Mysticism. (The extremely-favorable God King civic.)

Then:
Knowledge of the Ether. (Free Korrina, plus Risen Emperor is Arcane. Offense)
Archer (Headless archers are tough cookies. Defense)
Bronze Working (K. the Red. Offense.)
Hunting (K. the Black. Defense.)

Festivals somewhere in there.

Code of Laws (Population: Has two buildings to boost spawning, plus allows creation Legates who can generate Reborn. If you're lucky.)
Priesthood, then eventually Reli (Population again.)
Trade (Scions need lots of techs, should be willing to trade. (The Leader AI may need to be adjusted - I never did get around to much customization.)
Drama (Shoot for the Theater of Dreams)

Tech lines:

Haunted Lands Tech line - Defense and Economy:
Animal Handling (Ghostwalkers and Haunted lands. Defense, economic. Get here early and then pump out those Ghostwalkers to help spread the HL.)
Feral Bond (A big boost to Korrina the Black if she's around.)
Commune with Nature (Redactors)

Priest Line - population, military
Priesthood (Doomsayers - better at capturing/turning than Legates. Emphasize "Command")
Religious Law (For Cathedrals of Rebirth.)
Fanaticism (Revenants)

Arcane Line - Pure military (Perhaps much less attractive for non-R.E. leaders.)
Alteration (Body mana and the Flesh Studio)
Sorcery (Necromancers. Military)
Arcane Lore (R. Emperor!)

Melee line - a good nice military/economic combination. Smelting, with Forges, is especially important.

Haunted Lands + Religious is a good combo.
Arcane + Melee works well.

Late Game:
I think they're pretty much in the same boat as everybody else - they're all good. Though I guess I'd put more emphasis on Blasting Powder.

Others:
Sanitation and Medicine are of little use.

I tend to avoid the naval techs. Where I'd get Fishing for commerce and food in other civs, as the Scions I much prefer the commerce and hammer possibilities from land and let the pirates have their way. Obviously highly map dependent.

spread haunted lands, spread unhealth, destroy food resources.

Ah. Spreading HL especially might be fun. OTOH, I'm trying to minimize the "Creeper clutter." Thus the idea of promptly removing the little buggers after one good use.

 

[tesb]

i suggest this, because if he would have to settle and the spread mechanic is slow then you could actually do something against it. the sacrifice version on the other hand is instant.

When i play scions i tech like this:
1) Ancient chants --> Mysticism (for Godking)
3) Mining (hammers) --> Bronze Working (spam honored bands)
4) Calendar (for ogham landmark the foundation of the priest economy) --> Festivals (quick to tech and enables cheap good buildings)
5) Education --> Code of laws (buildings increase the spawn rate of awakened)
6) Knowledge of the ether (just to spam mages with skeletons)
7) Philosophy --> priesthood --> theocracy (priest economy i.e. theocracy with altar of lounnotar (from the priests the ogham landmark provides) and a cathedral)
8) drama (theater of dreams) --> all techs acquired for cathedral of rebirth

from now on i am pretty much free to tech what ever i like
i also switch sometimes 8 with 7 depends on how much research i currently have.

Once i have a priest economy i don't need cottages, mines, or any improvement besides roads and the improvements to connect resources, but i do not work the tiles surrounding the cities any more.

I don't think archery is worth teching with scions, since honored bands are pretty good in the defense and in offense and can get improved weaponry.

 

[Tarquelne]

I don't think archery is worth teching with scions, since honored bands are pretty good in the defense and in offense and can get improved weaponry.

I've been getting the Archery tower, and the relatively cheap archers have been very effective. Esp. when Enchant II is not very far away.

OTOH, you've got a good point. For the AI esp, since the HB is such a good dual purpose unit.

AND I *just now* realized the Scion Melee units past Centeni don't have the extra maintenance cost associated with them any more! Archery and Bronze Working are both choices for my next tech. I'll try Bronze Working this time.

 

[Tarquelne]

A nice test game. Korrina lost a 99+% combat and I'm left to play on without her. But I did plump for Honored Bands, and they are indeed nasty. I miss the strong ranged attack from the Archery Tower boosted Archers. That'd be nice... but this is better.


I'm pleasantly surprised with how the +1 terrain cost is working out with Heavy Formation. In FF they were barred from ever getting Mobility, but the added terrain cost alone is still rather annoying. (I'd also say it's more realistic.)

An idea: A promotion - available at Combat III or IV? - that gives a Headless unit it's head back. You'd get it for the +1 attack. It'd add some more variety, it fits the lore, could be an interesting tactical choice, and it's fun to imagine some enemy troops who know the nature of Patrian shock troops saying "Oh crap! This bunch has heads!"


[whiny Artiste! mode]
A request:
In the "lore" Scion cities tend to be shiny and clean, with whatever passes for classical architecture on Erebus. There's supposed to be some tension between the wonderful outward appearance of the Scions and the whatever lurks within. Maybe something wonderful, maybe something really sick. In the game, however, the appearance of the cities shouts out "We're vile and twisted bastards!" (OTOH, that is exactly the impression the military tries to convey.)

So I think it'd be good if the city artstyle were changed to something more Minas Tirith than Minas Morgal. (Caladan rather than Gedi Prime? San Fransisco rather than L.A.?)
[/whiny Artiste! mode]

EDIT: This forum doesn't use whiny artiste tags?

 

[tesb]

[whiny Artiste! mode]
A request:
In the "lore" Scion cities tend to be shiny and clean, with whatever passes for classical architecture on Erebus. There's supposed to be some tension between the wonderful outward appearance of the Scions and the whatever lurks within. Maybe something wonderful, maybe something really sick. In the game, however, the appearance of the cities shouts out "We're vile and twisted bastards!" (OTOH, that is exactly the impression the military tries to convey.)

So I think it'd be good if the city artstyle were changed to something more Minas Tirith than Minas Morgal. (Caladan rather than Gedi Prime? San Fransisco rather than L.A.?)
[/whiny Artiste! mode]

i can give this a try i am working on nifs anyway for the sidar
i will post pics later and you say if they are okey.

http://www.tuckborough.net/images/minasmorgul.jpg

in this style?

 

[tesb]

oh wait
this is minath tirith http://www.tolkienforums.com/Minas_Tirith_2.jpg


i am searching for their city nif, apparently they don't have one on their own or am i missing something?

Edit: i need the location and name of their city *.nif
it is not in wildana80.FPK art/structures/cities
where is it?

 

[Sephi]

[whiny Artiste! mode]
A request:
In the "lore" Scion cities tend to be shiny and clean, with whatever passes for classical architecture on Erebus. There's supposed to be some tension between the wonderful outward appearance of the Scions and the whatever lurks within. Maybe something wonderful, maybe something really sick. In the game, however, the appearance of the cities shouts out "We're vile and twisted bastards!" (OTOH, that is exactly the impression the military tries to convey.)

So I think it'd be good if the city artstyle were changed to something more Minas Tirith than Minas Morgal. (Caladan rather than Gedi Prime? San Fransisco rather than L.A.?)
[/whiny Artiste! mode]

EDIT: This forum doesn't use whiny artiste tags?

there is no unique city art for Scions at the moment. Not quite sure what it is using at the moment, probably infernal. You could change it in the CivilizationInfos.xml to Bannor, Grigori, Elohim and see if one of them fits better to the Scions.

 

[tesb]

yeah they use infernal, i created an separate art file for them (copy of the inferal) and edited it (i also made new entries (copies) for the scion in the cityLsystem and scion_civ4civilisationsinfos)


here is a first look, i plan on making the rest of the here black buildings more marble like so they are in a mix of goldish/marble:

Spoiler :

@tarqulene if you don't like this please tell me.

 

[tesb]

final version ,but i have troubles getting them ingame ( i don't want to replace the infernal city, but add a new one)

Spoiler :

 

[tesb]

i upload the *nif + texture files, since i have no clue on why this will not show up ingame.

 

[Tarquelne]

final version

Fancy! I thought the previous version still looked too much like ruins, but whatever you did with the colors helps hid the building's ruined nature. That looks good. Great gold color.

How about a gold, or gold and red, recolor of the Elohim? Might look even better.

 

[tesb]

yeah sure i can try, but it would be better if you could tell me what look exactly you want. i could use a different city set for example.
i can do:
use an existing city set and change colors, so just tell me what city set you prefer and with what colors and i'll do it.

 

[Tarquelne]

yeah sure i can try, but it would be better if you could tell me what look exactly you want. i could use a different city set for example.

Thanks! I'll try doing it myself, too, but I'm pretty hit or miss when it comes to thought-to-reality with visual stuff.

I'll also try getting your gold infernal city in game to look at.

 

[tesb]

I recommend you to use gimp or any other advanced image manipulation program.
If you do get them in game, can you post a screen shot, i would like to know how they look ingame?

If you find out that you don't like editing the textures you can employ me, i enjoy it quite a bit

 

[Valkrionn]

I recommend you to use gimp or any other advanced image manipulation program.
If you do get them in game, can you post a screen shot, i would like to know how they look ingame?

If you find out that you don't like editing the textures you can employ me, i enjoy it quite a bit

To hell with gimp, use Paint.net. Just grab some of the addons for it, and it's capabilities are equivalent while it's GUI is FAR superior.

 

[tesb]

To hell with gimp, use Paint.net. Just grab some of the addons for it, and it's capabilities are equivalent while it's GUI is FAR superior.

sounds like the two of you have a bad history. i just switched from paint , so i have no clue what is out there.

 

[Valkrionn]

sounds like the two of you have a bad history. i just switched from paint , so i have no clue what is out there.

Yeah, I just seriously dislike it.

I used photoshop, but don't have it on the laptop; Paint.net is free, and can do alot of what photoshop does, so I'm okay with it. It's good enough for me to make the below unit out of the Lightbringer, so it does everything I need it to do.

What this unit is for I won't say, but it shouldn't be TOO hard to figure out from it's looks.

 

[Tarquelne]

I didn't get it completely working - I think the graphics files are fine, but I'm not sure how the plot file works - but enough to take an in-game look.
EDIT: Ok, the plotsystem works the same way. Search-and-replace, changing the infernal graphics references to the new scion files did it.

It looks better than I expected - the "ruinedness" isn't very apparent. Still, I'm going to try that Elohim recoloring.

EDIT: Well, the Elohim recoloring was a complete dog's breakfast.

OTOH, tesb's gold infernal texture increasingly seemed the way to go. I fiddled around with it further, adding a little color and contrast. I like the result.