SCOTUS Nomination II: I Like Beer

[Hehehe]

You refuse to look at any actual facts as they have been described over and over in this thread. You admit to being poorly informed on the issue. And you think I need to read hit pieces in order to decide whether obvious lies are obvious lies?

The sad part of this is you have flat out refused to look at any facts and just write everything off as some partisan game. I don't know what you get out of remaining wilfully ignorant and trolling people who actually pay attention to facts, but this is just getting pathetic and tiresome.

How about this? Get a conviction and I'll come out with it and agree, Kavanaugh should be impeached

 

[Synobun]

Lol, "get a conviction".

Another very commonly employed variant of "I don't care about this anyway" and similar is "I'm not even from the US so I don't care about this". Again, its a transparent tactic when ones argument has failed.

I don't understand this approach myself. I'm not an American. I'm a Canadian, so what America does impacts me. But in general, what America does impacts the rest of the world. That's kind of the consequence of being a superpower. Everything you do is under scrutiny and everything you do has implications for everyone else. America conducting a circus for its highest court and potentially sabotaging its own social progress for a minimum of 35 years is problematic not only for just America but also for everyone else.

You always care about what's happening in a land that has the power and means to ruin your day at any given moment. They can change your society through force or through culture. Sometimes through both. A distant land would care about what happened in Rome. A distant land would care about what happened in Georgian and Victorian London. A distant land would, of course, care about what happened in America. To not care would be stupid.

 

[metalhead]

How about this? Get a conviction and I'll come out with it and agree, Kavanaugh should be impeached

Who is even talking about a conviction? It's like you don't even understand what is going on.

How about this - actually read Ben Wittes' piece on why Kavanaugh should not be confirmed. Tell me where Wittes' assessment of Kavanaugh's candor is wrong. If you think this is all just partisan bickering and the truth is so hard to find, the holes should be glaring.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

How about this? Get a conviction and I'll come out with it and agree, Kavanaugh should be impeached

This isn't any less morally repugnant than the last time you suggested it.

 

[EgonSpengler]

It's not like Trump has ever done well with women, so that doesn't seem especially impactful.

Given the slim margin by which Trump won the 2016 election (it was a virtual "perfect storm" of events), he has very little margin to either lose any support or to motivate people who didn't vote in 2016. As Jennifer Rubin wrote in the Washington Post this morning, "It’s logical to assume that Trump and Republicans are at much greater risk of losing more women (Republicans and independents) than they can make up by attracting new men to the GOP side." And they aren't attracting new men. In fact, they may be slipping slightly with white men, especially as "Millenials" become more interested in voting. Generally speaking, support for the Republican Party skews older, whiter, maler, wealthier, straighter, and less well-educated, so any departure from those demographics bodes ill for them, and they know it.

The Washington Post, Oct 3, 2018 - "Trump's misogyny reaps diminishing returns", by Jennifer Rubin

 

[sophie]

I am posting in this thread because it also deals with a topic I do find interesting and disturbing: how allegations that by their very nature can be neither proven nor disproven can be used to destroy someone's life with near certainty while no statute of limitations or presumption of innocence can protect them.

What about Christine Blasey Ford, whose life has been destroyed by the allegation?
What about Julie Swetnick, whose life has been destroyed by the allegation?

 

[Synobun]

What about Christine Blasey Ford, whose life has been destroyed by the allegation?
What about Julie Swetnick, whose life has been destroyed by the allegation?

Death threats and having your life torn open in the public eye doesn't compare to not becoming a Supreme Court judge, silly.

 

[Gori the Grey]

They will claim (and probably believe) this completely exhonorates Kavanaugh.

Oh wow. The White House tweeted at 2:30 AM exactly this.

Hey, I get the inb4 on this one:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...e-united-states.606128/page-117#post-15230281

The worst part about it all is that when Flake falls in line b/c the FBI didn't turn up security camera footage of the attack, the spin will be that the FBI exonerated Kavanaugh and has proved that this was all just a political hit job.

 

[Yeekim]

@Sommerswerd
Ok, I admit it. I'm a secret card-carrying Republican voter and Trump supporter only concerned with internal US politicking. After all these years, you were the first to totally see through me. You win.

What about Christine Blasey Ford, whose life has been destroyed by the allegation?
What about Julie Swetnick, whose life has been destroyed by the allegation?

That is a good point.
An accuser invites potentially unpleasant public scrutiny they would have to put up with as well. This does work as a defense against false accusations to a degree.

 

[Hehehe]

Lol, "get a conviction".

Metalhead seems to think it's a plausible course of action.

I don't understand this approach myself. I'm not an American. I'm a Canadian, so what America does impacts me. But in general, what America does impacts the rest of the world. That's kind of the consequence of being a superpower. Everything you do is under scrutiny and everything you do has implications for everyone else. America conducting a circus for its highest court and potentially sabotaging its own social progress for a minimum of 35 years is problematic not only for just America but also for everyone else.

You always care about what's happening in a land that has the power and means to ruin your day at any given moment. They can change your society through force or through culture. Sometimes through both. A distant land would care about what happened in Rome. A distant land would care about what happened in Georgian and Victorian London. A distant land would, of course, care about what happened in America. To not care would be stupid.

The US matters to the world, but I'm not sure Kavanaugh does. The only reason I'm paying any attention to this is because I think it might say something deeper about the state of contemporary United States.

Who is even talking about a conviction? It's like you don't even understand what is going on.

How about this - actually read Ben Wittes' piece on why Kavanaugh should not be confirmed. Tell me where Wittes' assessment of Kavanaugh's candor is wrong. If you think this is all just partisan bickering and the truth is so hard to find, the holes should be glaring.

So, I read the piece. I'll put aside all the rhetoric, some of which was on point, some of which I'm not so sure about. As for the facts themselves, there are precious little, and the republicans have questioned Ford's testimony in a similar fashion. It seems to me that the best thing we can hope for, at this point, is to wait for the FBI investigation. I guess I'll let them sort out the facts of the matter, as imperfect as that may be.

 

[Lexicus]

Ok, I admit it. I'm a secret card-carrying Republican voter and Trump supporter only concerned with internal US politicking. After all these years, you were the first to totally see through me. You win.

Speaking for myself I think you guys don't know or care about the US politics aspect of it, I honestly think you just hate women so much that you can't stand the idea of someone being held accountable for repeated instances of sexual violence against women

 

[metalhead]

So, I read the piece. I'll put aside all the rhetoric, some of which was on point, some of which I'm not so sure about. As for the facts themselves, there are precious little, and the republicans have questioned Ford's testimony in a similar fashion.

Dr. Ford's testimony has nothing to do with Kavanaugh's lack of candor. As I've said before, or at least intimated, if Brett Kavanaugh had presented himself more honestly, with candor, without all the deeply partisan hackery, there would be little serious choice but for Republicans to confirm him.

You can believe Dr. Ford made the whole thing up, if you want. We have a second accuser with corroborating witnesses and a third accuser with corroborating witnesses, each of which is being left conveniently un-investigated, but that is nonetheless your prerogative to do so. I have laid out my case in detail for why I find her credible, but her credibility is not really central to the case against Kavanaugh getting confirmed.

A judge should strive for truthfulness under oath. We could quibble over his testimony, whether it constitutes actual lying or mere misdirection, but either way it is enormously problematic for the highest judicial official in the land to dissemble under oath. How can we have a system of justice which RELIES on the insistence of truthfulness under oath, if we have no problem elevating someone to the Supreme Court despite obvious lack of candor under oath?

The consequences for this would be disastrous. Significant faith would be lost in both the impartiality of the judiciary and the imprimatur of the Supreme Court itself.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Beat me to it @EgonSpengler

Edit: They didn't even interview Kavanaugh! He's been accused of perjury and they didn't follow up on this?

That would be a violation of Constitutional Privilege!

 

[Lexicus]

There are also literally dozens of reasons why Kavanaugh should not be confirmed that have nothing to do with the accusations against him. I was dead-set against Kavanaugh's nomination before I knew anything about the accusations. And the reason is that Kavanaugh is only a competent judge in the sense that he is able to hide partisan Republican nonsense and right-wing ideology behind a veneer of judicial impartiality. That is essentially the measure used by conservatives to determine the worth/competence of any judge.

 

[bernie14]

So, @metalhead, did you see the

? It seems to conflict with your "identify with the aggressor theory"...so were you lying or just ignorant?

My impression....

Ford...a pawn, and likely a confused one

Ramirez..a nothing burger

Swetnick....a joke

 

[Synobun]

That's some hard-hitting analysis right there.

 

[sophie]

Collins is reporting that the report appears to be very thorough. It does seem to be over 1000 pages long. Good thing 100 senators all have to share one one-thousand page document between themselves and come to a decision on its contents by tomorrow. Oh and none of us will ever know what it actually says, we just have to take their word for it.

This who process has served only to make a joke of our parliamentary process, but this is the **** icing on the **** cake.

Not that I'm at all surprised.

 

[Synobun]

One hour to review 1000 pages?

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

Those dang disgusting Democrats though, wanting more time. Delays, delays, delays.

 

[metalhead]

So, @metalhead, did you see the

? It seems to conflict with your "identify with the aggressor theory"...so were you lying or just ignorant?

That wasn't my theory? I have no idea what you're referring to here. Could you perhaps be more specific?

 

[bernie14]

There are also literally dozens of reasons why Kavanaugh should not be confirmed that have nothing to do with the accusations against him. I was dead-set against Kavanaugh's nomination before I knew anything about the accusations. And the reason is that Kavanaugh is only a competent judge in the sense that he is able to hide partisan Republican nonsense and right-wing ideology behind a veneer of judicial impartiality. That is essentially the measure used by conservatives to determine the worth/competence of any judge.

Exactly why the dems created this circus