SCOTUS Nomination II: I Like Beer

[rah]

While you would be a "TAD" extreme for my tastes, I'd prefer you over the currently proposed piece of dreck.

 

[metalhead]

Would he get confirmed if he was honest about his past? Assuming of course rape was not his intent. "Yeah, I drank too much and I was a putz, I'm sorry".

If he had handled this in a contrite manner, without even admitting to any kind of sexual assault or other misconduct, he'd have been confirmed already.

"Yeah I drank way too much in high school and college and acted terribly and on occasion did some things I'm not proud of. I learned from those mistakes and have tried to be a better man and a good husband and father and Christian since then and believe I have done a pretty good job. I'm truly sorry for any behavior of mine in the past that has caused anyone pain; I can't say that isn't who I was back then, but I can assure you it's not who I am now. All I can do is ask for forgiveness from anyone I may have hurt and show them I am someone they can trust to serve on the Supreme Court with honor and dignity."

The classic non-specific apology would have made Democrats understandably apoplectic, but would have totally defeated any growing scandal. He wouldn't even have to acknowledge any of the accusers, and Democrats would have been hard-pressed to explain to everyone how that statement is deficient and doesn't really answer the allegations. There would have likely been no hearing, and the stuff journalists dug up would just be confirming what he had already owned up to - that he was a drunken lout.

Had he taken that route I don't see any way he would not have sailed through confirmation. He got some very bad advice to handle this the way he has, because now he is forcing people to potentially pay a heavy political price in exchange for voting for him. If I were a GOP senator up for re-election I'd be so pissed at having been put in this position.

 

[rah]

Well said.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Lindsey Graham says that if the Senate doesn't confirm Brett Kavanaugh then Trump should just renominate him.

Lindsey Graham: If Kavanaugh vote fails, Trump should re-nominate him before midterms, ‘appeal the case to the American people’
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/li...dterms-appeal-the-case-to-the-american-people

Unbelievable. He doesn't even concede the possibility that they might reject him for attempted rape and/or verified perjury. He is standing 100% on the notion that there is no merit to any of this.

 

[rah]

Well then at least the FBI investigation would happen before the confirmation hearing.

 

[Gori the Grey]

If I were a GOP senator up for re-election I'd be so pissed at having been put in this position.

But you'd remember who had put you in this position:

I read a piece in the Atlantic today written by a "moderate" and "anti-Trump" Republican blaming the Democrats for forcing conservatives to support the President even when they don't want to, and berating the Women's March for calling Flake a rape apologist even though he cares about sexual assault etc.

The logic was basically that liberals represent such an existential threat to conservative values that conservatives now feel they must support Kavanaugh, because if they don't they are rewarding the "Avenattization" of politics.

Dem lib'ruls, dat's who.

Regarding hobbs' post above, I haven't thought it through thoroughly, but I'm not sure Dems shouldn't be eager to take Graham's proposed deal.

By all means, Trump, re-nominate Kavanaugh and let the voters say what they think about that.

But anyway, this is what made me say earlier that I think a good number of Republicans are not unwilling to die on the Kavanaugh hill. They (weirdly, to my thinking) think this is a winning issue for them: that this whole expecting-women-to-be-believed-when-they-make-accusations-of-sexual-assualt thing is just more PC run amok.

 

[metalhead]

I think that depends on whether Kavanaugh was straight with everybody in private, or if he has been lying behind closed doors to the Republicans about all this. Trump doesn't appear to be sticking up for him, at least today, so I wonder if maybe Trump and Don McGahn were also lied to.

The Senators know why they are where they are. And it's not because of Democrats. This could have been nipped in the bud weeks ago, and now they have to make the agonizing choice between two options which both seem to have much more downside than upside.

 

[rah]

I saw a clip from a trump rally from yesterday where he was still strongly supporting him along with his dem conspiracy theories.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I haven't been watching as closely as I once used to, but the Trump quotes that have made it through to me have sounded tepid. I think he's just trying to leave himself an out for it if does tank; it won't leave as much stink on him if he wasn't emphatically supporting K. At a rally, he'll play to the emotions of the crowd. I'm talking about when he talks to reporters, he's been in his "we'll see what happens" mode.

 

[Berzerker]

If he had handled this in a contrite manner, without even admitting to any kind of sexual assault or other misconduct, he'd have been confirmed already.

"Yeah I drank way too much in high school and college and acted terribly and on occasion did some things I'm not proud of. I learned from those mistakes and have tried to be a better man and a good husband and father and Christian since then and believe I have done a pretty good job. I'm truly sorry for any behavior of mine in the past that has caused anyone pain; I can't say that isn't who I was back then, but I can assure you it's not who I am now. All I can do is ask for forgiveness from anyone I may have hurt and show them I am someone they can trust to serve on the Supreme Court with honor and dignity."

The classic non-specific apology would have made Democrats understandably apoplectic, but would have totally defeated any growing scandal. He wouldn't even have to acknowledge any of the accusers, and Democrats would have been hard-pressed to explain to everyone how that statement is deficient and doesn't really answer the allegations. There would have likely been no hearing, and the stuff journalists dug up would just be confirming what he had already owned up to - that he was a drunken lout.

Had he taken that route I don't see any way he would not have sailed through confirmation. He got some very bad advice to handle this the way he has, because now he is forcing people to potentially pay a heavy political price in exchange for voting for him. If I were a GOP senator up for re-election I'd be so pissed at having been put in this position.

I agree more or less, but he'd still get questions about Ford and he couldn't brush them aside
if he admitted to sexual assault with "I'm sorry for being a bad boy".

 

[metalhead]

Today:

Trump says "a lot" depends on Kavanaugh's FBI investigation, draws line on lying to Congress
From CNN's Kevin Liptak

President Trump said Tuesday his Supreme Court nominee Judge Kavanaugh is "doing very well" but said his fate will depend on an ongoing FBI investigation.

"A lot is going to depend on what comes back from the FBI in terms of their additional — number 7 — investigation," he said on the South Lawn.

He added later: "The FBI is working, they’re working very hard, and let’s see what happens."

He expressed optimism a vote on Kavanaugh could come by the end of the week, citing Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

"Hopefully as Mitch said they’ll have a vote by the end of the week and it will be a positive vote," he said.

Kavanaugh, he said, is "fighting very hard for his reputation, for his family."

Speaking to reporters on the South Lawn, Trump also drew a line on lying to Congress.

"I don’t think you should lie to Congress and there are a lot of people over the past year who have lied to Congress," he said. "For me, that would not be acceptable."
​

A pretty tepid statement of support considering Kavanaugh has lied to Congress repeatedly. He's not expressing confidence the FBI won't find anything, he's saying let's wait and see. Could be a deliberate strategy, but not one that Trump frequently employs, to downplay confidence that things are going to go his way.

 

[Berzerker]

"Lying to Congress is my job"

 

[Gori the Grey]

A pretty tepid statement of support considering Kavanaugh has lied to Congress repeatedly. He's not expressing confidence the FBI won't find anything, he's saying let's wait and see. Could be a deliberate strategy, but not one that Trump frequently employs, to downplay confidence that things are going to go his way.

Hey, that's what I just said!

By the way, I'm not sure he means by these words what you or I would mean by them. I don't think he's counting all of the documented perjuries K has committed. He just means, "If the FBI can provide irrefutable proof that K lied to Congress about having assaulted Ford," then that's what wouldn't be an acceptable lie.

 

[Lexicus]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...cizes-supreme-court-nominee-kavanaugh/571915/

As the Senate awaits the results of the FBI investigation into the Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, Jeff Flake, one of the lawmakers who spurred the inquiry, criticized the judge Tuesday for his recent appearance in the upper chamber.

Speaking with Jeffrey Rosen, the president of the National Constitution Center, and Democratic Senator Chris Coons at The Atlantic Festival on Tuesday morning, Flake called the judge’s interactions with lawmakers “sharp and partisan.”

“We can’t have that on the Court,” said the Arizona senator, who didn’t elaborate on which interactions he was referring to.

I caught up with Flake briefly as he left the event, and asked if this meant he would not vote to confirm Kavanaugh, even if the FBI cleared him by week’s end. He appeared rattled, and his handlers rushed him into the stairwell. “I didn’t say that …” he stammered. “I wasn’t referring to him.”

The fact that this dude's name is literally Flake is just...ahhhhh

 

[Broken_Erika]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...cizes-supreme-court-nominee-kavanaugh/571915/





The fact that this dude's name is literally Flake is just...ahhhhh

Flakers gonna Flake.

 

[sophie]

Trump's assessment is interesting. At this point, it's hard for me to say if he's saying it as a "see? no evidence of perjury let's move on" or if he knows they'll find the skeletons and is giving himself a valid out to rescind the nomination ("I didn't expect him to lie before the Senate!")

 

[Sommerswerd]

I was told that rape is bad by my parents when I asked what the word rape meant (saw it on a soap opera)

Hey! Was it "Skipper" on Young and the Restless?

 

[metalhead]

Trump's assessment is interesting. At this point, it's hard for me to say if he's saying it as a "see? no evidence of perjury let's move on" or if he knows they'll find the skeletons and is giving himself a valid out to rescind the nomination ("I didn't expect him to lie before the Senate!")

The one constant of the Trump era is that no matter what goes wrong and how badly it goes wrong, it is never, ever the fault of Donald J. Trump.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Would he get confirmed if he was honest about his past? Assuming of course rape was not his intent. "Yeah, I drank too much and I was a putz, I'm sorry".

I firmly believe that if he had said something along those lines in his hearings (maybe a little more substantive, with some genuine reflection on how it was inappropriate, how he regrets what he did, how he's tried to redeem himself through an adult life well lived, and perhaps even a sort of blanket apology to anyone he offended or hurt with his immature juvenile behavior... yes he not only would have been confirmed, by now, Dr. Ford would not even have been given a hearing and the Republicans would be praising him as a profile in courage and upright moral candor.

Frankly, I think that even now, if he were to come out and cop to all of it, except intending to rape Dr. Ford(maybe by saying he had a conversation with Judge and someone else and they were able to refresh his recollection, or something along those lines), that would be enough for the Republicans to vote him in post-haste. TBH I think there is a pretty good chance they confirm him anyway, even with all the blatant lying.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If they ditch him and revise the parliamentary procedures for the approval process then they can be done I think in 3 or 4 weeks.

This is vastly underestimating the Trumpists. If they "ditch" Trump's chosen pick, ever, they will be destroyed by the base. Either he will get seated with 51 votes and they will be pouring out their hatred on the Democrats, or he won't and they will pour out their hatred on the Democrats and whoever voted with them. You are operating in a different reality.

In their reality Dr Ford is a Democrat activist who lied bald faced to the senate committee. Grassley is "weak" because he "caved" in even allowing her a hearing. Flake is a traitor who is unfortunately beyond their reach because he isn't running for re-election, though they are calling for investigating whether he is "part of the plot" along with Feinstein, so locking him up is an option. The plot to smear a good man and keep the bestest justice ever off the supreme court.

To give you a sense of the right wing echo chamber I offer this example: "Renata alumnus" has nothing to do with some girl who attended some nearby school, it refers to "born again" in German and shows how these boys had an awakening of faith during their time at Georgetown Prep.