Screenshot stills from the video: more content

[Aussie_Lurker]

Just FYI, I'm basing my guess of eight first tier techs on the number of lines coming in from the left-hand side of the screen.

I also agree that the majority of the missing "techs" have probably been shifted to social policies, as they represent more Social than technological advancement (though, in this case, I wonder if theology really belongs in the tech tree-though maybe it does as it is the *study* of religion).

Also, I'll hazard a couple of guesses by saying (1) I doubt that the tech tree we're seeing is the final word on the subject-things like that can easily change even a few weeks out from release & (2) I'm guessing there will be some direct links between the tech tree & the social policy tree. So, as pointed out, acoustics might either be required for drama & music-or at least make it cheaper to buy. Writing will obviously allow for literature (& maybe even alphabet?) Just a thought-I accept that I could be wrong.

Lastly, the link between pottery & writing I get. The first use of the characters that formed the precursor of writing were symbols used to tell people what was inside pottery containers. Still, I liked Civ4's approach-having it link from pottery, &/or priesthood, &/or animal husbandry.

Aussie.

 

[Col Kurtz]

I'm guessing there will be some direct links between the tech tree & the social policy tree. So, as pointed out, acoustics might either be required for drama & music-or at least make it cheaper to buy. Writing will obviously allow for literature (& maybe even alphabet?) Just a thought-I accept that I could be wrong.

Aussie.

I agree that there will be some link between Social Policies and Technologies. One thing that we've heard in the recent interviews is that some social policy branches (honor) will begin sooner than others (commerce). My guess is that certain technologies will unlock certain social policy branches. For example, mathematics might unlock the commerce branch. However, social policy branches could also be unlocked by reaching certain points in other social policy branches, or by something else altogether.

 

[Ahriman]

About the promotions: I would guess it'd branch out from there, like how combat 1 unlocked stuff in IV.

But it looks like they already have combat 1-3, no?

I agree that there will be some link between Social Policies and Technologies. One thing that we've heard in the recent interviews is that some social policy branches (honor) will begin sooner than others (commerce). My guess is that certain technologies will unlock certain social policy branches. For example, mathematics might unlock the commerce branch. However, social policy branches could also be unlocked by reaching certain points in other social policy branches, or by something else altogethe

This certainly seems possible.

I'm not sure that "acoustics" would unlock "music" and "drama" social policies; it is much more likely to me that acoustics is a merge of the Civ4 music and drama techs (you want good acoustics for both) - for example it might be required for a music Wonder and also the Theater building.

Also, currency seems more likely to unlock a commerce branch than mathematics, but it could be either (or banking).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

So I still think each tile with a resources provides multiples of that resource, and that it's 1 resource per 1 unit.


EDIT: Also, look at picture 4. There, one tile has 2 horses, one has 4. I don't see any obvious reason (river, etc) that it's just space related. Though it could just be random, so that they don't all look the same. One possibility is that some tiles with resources provide more of that resource than others. But I highly doubt that, because it would be really weird and doesn't fit with what we've been told so far in previews.

They haven't said anything about tiles all providing the same amount of resource, and I think that would be ideal.... as long as it is readily represented... ie 4 Horses in the tile means it will give you 4 Horses... and you can support 4 Knights off of it.

Some units might still require multiples (I could see Battleships requiring 2 Oil)




As for Branching Promotions....
You might need a "specialist" promotion to unlock specialties
Ie you have regular Combat promotions, and the 'specialist'

Also certain promotions may require certain social policies.
(And therewas an indication that promotions would be more tied to unit type so there probably IS less specialization you can do.)

 

[Col Kurtz]

But it looks like they already have combat 1-3, no?

Oh, duh, I forgot about that. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Krikkitone has some good ideas too.

 

[grumbler]

Here's another idea how to explain the varying number of horses: Perhaps a horse resource starts with one, maybe two horses. When you build a pasture, the number of available horses starts to increase slowly (similar to the way cottages grew over time in Civ4).

 

[Ahriman]

When you build a pasture, the number of available horses starts to increase slowly (similar to the way cottages grew over time in Civ4).

That'd be a bit weird; an oil well yields more oil over time as you extract it and deplete the reservoir?

I can see techs boosting resource yield, but that's about it.

 

[Col Kurtz]

Here's another idea how to explain the varying number of horses: Perhaps a horse resource starts with one, maybe two horses. When you build a pasture, the number of available horses starts to increase slowly (similar to the way cottages grew over time in Civ4).

Heh, or like Agricola.

Interesting idea, but I doubt it, partly for the reason stated above.

 

[grandad1982]

I'm not sure why people are so concerned about the length of the tech tree. The slider is only a third of the way along by Medieval and already we can see 33 (I think after quick count) techs NOT icluding the tier 0 techs. If we assume that there will be about the same number of techs in each remaing third there could be about 100 techs in all! Even if they drop off towards the end we can still expect 80 techs or upwards in the vanilla tree IMO!

 

[CTH]

In the screenshots there is a button called strategic view close to the minimap, I wonder what that means...

 

[grumbler]

That'd be a bit weird; an oil well yields more oil over time as you extract it and deplete the reservoir?

I can see techs boosting resource yield, but that's about it.

Well, I have to admit that I mainly thought about "self-replicating" resources (i.e. animals, plants, ...).

But ... oil well yields adhere to an bell-shaped curve. So, yes, for some time you'll see an increase while you extract the oil. Now, at least in Civ4, natural resources don't deplete, so the second, declining part of the curve never comes into play.

(I'm not really invested into this idea, it's speculation as everything else in this thread; just pointing out that it is not necessarily invalidated by the argument above. )

 

[Thyrwyn]

IN the screenshots of the tech tree: what ddo you make of the spiky star-like icon in several of the techs (writing, machinery, philosophy, chivalry, optics, etc...)

General placeholder? Social Policy trees?

 

[stealth_nsk]

General placeholder? Social Policy trees?

Both, I suppose.
They are definitely placeholders, and all these technologies looks socially important. If I'm not mistaken, one E3 interview states what they didn't complete social policy icons yet.

 

[Abraxis]

1 tier in to medieval looks to be a third of the way through the tech tree. I figured that would be fine if they increased the tech research times so you could have a longer opportunity to actually use your new units. But the times on those last techs are
-Theology: 9 turns
-Civil Service: 8 turns
-Currency: 9 turns
Those are really short...
Given that's the fifth tier 1/3 through the tree, it seems reasonable to assume there are roughly 15 tiers. 15 tiers * 10 turns = 150, then multiplied by 7 techs per tier which seems about average, that's (very roughly) 1050 turns to get through the tree at that game speed.

Maybe a little short? though a demo probably would have been in one of the fastest speeds to showcase everything.

Also that 12 in the city name, even though there are 11 citizens. There is a 12 up at the top next to what looks like a little cow's head. Food is represented by green circles though, of which I counted 21 being gathered from the land. 23-11(citizens)=12... but that makes no conceivable sense as citizens probably need 2 food each (could be wrong, City center has 2 food), and why would we need to really know this unless there is a filter applied to the cities in that pic for food surplus... Any other ideas?

edit: just found another very similar pic slightly earlier, with less food, +1 instead of +3. Still the little cow and number on the city name is 12.

 

[eireksten]

that's (very roughly) 1050 turns to get through the tree at that game speed.

Maybe a little short? though a demo probably would have been in one of the fastest speeds to showcase everything.

I won't bother arguing on the logic you use up to this point, though I was planning on until I read this part.

You know that a standard game of Civ4 is 500 turns? 1050 turns to get through the tech tree would be more than enough for that.

 

[Abraxis]

I won't bother arguing on the logic you use up to this point, though I was planning on until I read this part.

It's not perfect, just suitable for a general Idea, which is all I'm going for. Can you do better with the available info?

You know that a standard game of Civ4 is 500 turns? 1050 turns to get through the tech tree would be more than enough for that.

depends the speed you play, I am in the middle of a Marathon game in Civ 4, 500 turns has gotten me to Astronomy.

Just putting the rough numbers up for the curious, and saying I like longer games, doesn't make me wrong.

Also, I figured with battles requiring more tactics, maneuvering, several attacks to kill full health units and such, the game would be longer. Otherwise a single skirmish could conceivably last the majority of a full era. In civ 4 it's normal for a war to last a few eras, sure, but not a battle.

I dunno, the numbers just seem a little off to me is what I'm saying, I know it's in alpha, but again, just mentioning what I'm noticing to the curious.

 

[eireksten]

Surely, you're not implicitly assuming that screenshots are from some marathon mode? 1050 turns does not mean going too fast through the tech tree.

 

[Abraxis]

Surely, you're not implicitly assuming that screenshots are from some marathon mode? 1050 turns does not mean going too fast through the tech tree.

For more tactical battles it does.

And I wasn't Implicitly assuming anything, I am speculating with very little data available, as is everyone. Either help, or quit pointing out every little flaw in our scientific method, we're not in a lab.

 

[Ahriman]

1 tier in to medieval looks to be a third of the way through the tech tree. I figured that would be fine if they increased the tech research times so you could have a longer opportunity to actually use your new units. But the times on those last techs are
-Theology: 9 turns
-Civil Service: 8 turns
-Currency: 9 turns

I don't think we can assume anything from these; we have no idea if the screenshot was from a "proper game" played to win or just from an instance they created to take screenshots.
ie no idea if there economy is "normal" size or not.

I also don't see that we can extrapolate that the number of turns for a new tech remains constant. It didn't in previous Civ games, it declined over the course of the game as your empire/economy got larger.

 

[Abraxis]

I don't think we can assume anything from these; we have no idea if the screenshot was from a "proper game" played to win or just from an instance they created to take screenshots.
ie no idea if there economy is "normal" size or not.

I also don't see that we can extrapolate that the number of turns for a new tech remains constant. It didn't in previous Civ games, it declined over the course of the game as your empire/economy got larger.

The rate of change is generally in line with an exponential decay though. The first third being vastly higher, and the second two being slightly lower. Overall I figured the one third mark was a good spot to pull a rough average (not that I had a choice ).

And It may just be a test speed. All I'm saying is with those numbers it seems short for a game modeling a civ's history, with all it's wars, and now all it's battles fully realized.