Sengir01 - Spying with a vengeance

[nocho]

Looks like a solid set, Sturick.

The rules said no mids, so I'd leave it at that. Despite the stone it'll still be a lot of hammers we can put in other useful stuff like, uh, well, units basically. It could help build some settlers or workers as well after it has grown a bit. Maybe for the eastern filler town down south which is not bad with 4 resources.

If Ragnar is really being hampered by barbarians, then it would make me think again about rushing him, like Whosit initially suggested... We could get a bunch of axes and swords out, unfortunately we cannot research archery to toss in some HAs as well...

Oh, you said something about a farm at Munich, but shouldn't we be cottaging it?

Let's see if Meiz can make contact with his mobile phone connection...

 

[Whosit]

Speaking of hampering Ragnar, I know we want to use our EPs to steal tech, but if we did something like, foment unhappiness in the Viking capital at this point of the game, wouldn't that really slow them down? Unless I'm mistaken, that would be enough unhappiness to paralyze the city at a point where the AI doesn't have enough happy resources or the cultural slider to counter it.

 

[Meiz]

I could actually use a swap after all (still alive though, barely...).

Ragnar is very low on score, so I think we should infiltrate Hammurabi after all. He also built the oracle, so with good luck we could get Metal Casting from him.

 

[Meiz]

Double post...

 

[nocho]

With Meiz barely surviving in the finnish jungle, Sengir is up then...

Somehow I also start liking the idea of infiltrating Hammurabi better. By the way, noticed that we nearly cirvumnavigated! Although on this map that's not very important...

 

[Sengir]

I won't be able to play untill monday evening, so if you can get it before that just play Meiz. Otherwise I've got it for monday evening (should have time to look at the save tomorrow morning).

 

[Meiz]

Ok, got it now.

 

[Meiz]

Quiet turnset before the storm of tech stealing, I guess...

Preturn

Changed research to fishing, as we need it for the next city. Speaking of that, switch Berlin to build a settler.

Turn 4

Fishing learned and we continue researching alphabet.

Turn 8

Evil barbarians pillage the cows near Hamburg just before we can get the tile in our control! The mourning of German nation can be heard miles away

Turn 9

Meet the Koreans who are worst enemies of Ragnar, Saladin and Montezuma.

Turn 12

Alphabet is finally learned, so switch the slider for espionage.

Frankfurt settled.



Turn 13

Judaism spreads to Hamburg, but no reason to convert just yet.

Turn 16

We can see everyones demographics, so might as well stop here. I left the EP's evenly distributed for now. Probably a good idea to focus on Ragnar.

Both Berlin and Hamburg have soon built our first spies and our Great Spy is scouting Hammurabi's lands, eagerly waiting to infiltrate.

I think we should be able to take Ragnar down with the help of city revolts. Probably need to get some troops out first, though...

 

[nocho]

Ok, let the spying game begin!

Maybe we can start with some tech trades, though. And yeah, let's build up troops, although an occasional settler won't do much harm either.

 

[sturick]

Nice work Meiz!
I didn't expect to have our next city up so soon!

Hamburg needs to get some mines up and running after pasturing the cows.
We would rather not control food with scientists in this game.

Cologne needs lots of worker attention so perhaps we should control our growth with workers and settlers for now until we build courthouses and can run spy specs.

Its still too early to see which of our opponents is going to tech the best.
I agree with the group that Hammurabi will tech better over the long haul.
I think if we infiltrate Ragnar we might end up wasting the EPs.

There is still plenty of time to wait it out and find the best target...but we should have a pair of spies ready to steal CoL as soon as it is researched.
Hammy is the only one that has the prereqs to research it at the moment.

In the meantime we can let our EPs build on all of our enemies (we will see a couple of civs research by the end of the next set) and our Great Spy can further scout out the lands.

Sengir looks like you are up...good luck!

 

[muxec]

Gems city is a cheat! Looks like your first Scotland Yard should go there. Nice to see Monty near Alex, I hope they will fight one another.

No crazy techers except for Gandhi so far... Hammurabi is Zealotizing you!

Interesting Leader choice as for EE, but I prefer Augustus or Suleiman for it. Early courthouses are good but cheap Settlers and more GG points for fighting behind TGW outweight it IMO...

Won two pure EE monarch offline games so far...

 

[Sengir]

Got it for tomorrow.

 

[Sengir]

Looks like Hammi is indeed the better target as he's close and at the top of the score list. No need to infiltrate at this point however, as we can simply trade for the techs we are missing at this point. I'd rather scout a bit more. (Hmm, except for Monarchy perhaps, which Hammi has). Hammi also looks like the prime target for Monty's aggression which will soon be upon us (Gandhi is Alex's most probable target).

What trades do we want to make? Not my strongest point, so some input will be nice. I'm thinking Archery and Sailing won't be high on our wishlist, but do we want to trade for Meditation/Poly (and Priesthood/Mono) at this point or should we delay this?

How long are we going to keep our spy-points spread out? If we focus them all on one leader (which we are allowed to do by now) we will gain fast enough to keep up in tech I think, but if we keep it spread out a little longer we can see research and have a better clue on who to focus on.

Set will be focused on getting a couple of spies out, some workers and a bit of an army. Maybe even start a settler. Should be able to play in a couple of hours.

 

[nocho]

I'd keep the spy points spread for some time to come and steal from our infiltration target, that should keep us up for a while.

I'd try and get the reli techs indeed, sailing maybe as well for a lighthouse (if that's enough water tiles to grand one).

 

[Sengir]

Turn 137:
Make this trade with Ghandi.

Spoiler :

I know he is WE of three AI's, but he is the only one to have Sailing (well, Wan Kong has it but doesn't want to trade it with Gandhi). Sailing opens op coastal and river trade so should benefit us quite a bit (we've got OB with almost everyone). Besides, Hammi doesn't have it yet, so perhaps we can trade it. Couldn't get Meditation when trading HBR, so decided to trade Alpha, as we don't have a monopoly on it anyway.

Go through our cities but they look good. Need some more workers though. Notice the lake at Frankfurt is big enough for a Lighthouse (or a galley for that matter).

Turn 138:
Hmm, Hammi doesn't want to trade Priesthood. Wan Kong does, but that would mean I'd be paying double beakers which is a bit to much to me. Not sure why Hammi doesn't want to trade it, as Oracle is gone allready (he says 'We don't want to trade this technology just yet', isn't that for monopolies?). I'm going to wait a bit as both Mono as Priesthood are not of the highest priority, so I can simply wait for a better deal (or we just steal it at some point )


Turn 139:
Berlin: Spy > Axe

I can trade HBR to either Hammi or Ghandi for Mono, Priesthood and Archery. Decide to go for Ghandi, as we might be able to swing a deal with Hammi for Monarchy later.
(Forgot to take a screenie of the trade)

Turn 140:
Both Wan Kong and Hammi have Monarchy and are willing to trade it. We only have something to offer to Hammi though and at a bit to steep a price. Decide to wait a bit more as we have only one city at the happy cap right now and that city can spam some workers first.


Turn 141:
Hamburg: Spy > Worker
We are top of the scoreboard and we can see Wan Kong researching Writing.
I'm going to fiddle a bit with the spy points, as I want to see Hammi's research. If he's going for CoL we should probably infiltrate pretty soon, otherwise it can wait a bit.

Turn 142:
Berlin: Axe > Spy

Turn 143:
Hammi finished ToA and is researching Alpha. He has also got his diry hands on HBR (probably from Ghandi who has Monarchy now). Will try to trade it with Wang Kon next turn.

Turn 144:
This happens:

Monty declares on Hammi. I have a feeling that Hammi won't be the top dog for long (power rating of 1.3 against 0.6 from Monty).

Ghandi and Sally join the club of AI's whose research we can see.

Trade Mono+Alpha for Monarchy with Wang Kon

Spoiler :

Revolt to HR

Spoiler :

Turn 145:
Wang Kon is researching CoL in 13t

Turn 146:
Hammi wants us to declare on Monty. I don't.

Spoiler :

Berlin: Spy > Axe

Turn 147:
Hamburg: Worker > Axe

Turn 148:
Berlin: Axe > Settler
Frankfurt: Monument > WB

The plan to infiltrate Hammi is off now, I guess:

Spoiler :

Turn 149:
Monty comes asking to declare war on Hammi.

Spoiler :

Think long and hard about it and in the end decide to do it: Hammi's capital is allready taken, so he should be running out of steam pretty soon and is unlikely to send anything our way. He won't be teching quickly anymore I think. The only one pleased with Hammi is Ghandi, so not much of a problem there either. Basically we are getting free +diplo with the madman, hopefully preventing to become his next target this way.

Munich: Axe > Worker

Turn 150
zzz

Turn 151:
Hamburg: Axe > Spy

Turn 152:
zzz

Turn 153:
We can see everybodies research now (well, except for Hammi who has just finished Alpha), so might as well stop here.

After Monty's DOW on Hammi I send our GSpy to Wang Kon, though I don't know whether he is the best target, as he is pretty far away. Still, he is the one teching CoL and techleader. Others are teching Math or techs we allready have. Alex has Compass on us, but that is rather useless. There is a spy on his way towards Wang Kon as well, though we should probably send a couple more. I also have one spy checking Monty's land and another on his way to Sally. Next spy from Hamburg should probably go to our infiltration target (whoever that may be).

Settler will be done in 4 as well, don't know what the best site for it is going to be, so time for discussion there as well. A filler city to get our lands a bit better connected is an option, though spreading out a bit more is also a possibility.

 

[Meiz]

Solid set and some nice trading . I think Wang Kong is the one to inflitrate. It's rare to see him at the top of the score, but maybe this is one of the few games that he is doing allright?

Here's one suggestion for our next three cities.

From east and southwest, we get a great commerce cities with good food and production potential. NW spot has fresh water for additional health and additional gold for commerce. Oasis and grassland cows should give decent food for the site.



On a minor note, I noticed that Hamburg isn't working on the cows at the moment.

Oh, and roster is:

Sengir (just played)
Norvin Green (up)
Whosit
nocho
sturick
Meiz

 

[Whosit]

Seems like a good set to me. Quite a bit of nice trades; we're now on par with everyone. Korea does seem like the place to hit--once we can put courthouses anywhere and everywhere, well, EPs and and further expansion, of course.

I also think it was a good play to join Monty's war (really, that guy appears in nearly every SG, doesn't he?) to get on his good side. Wouldn't it be something if we actually were Friendly with the Aztecs in this game?

Meiz: I like your suggestions for city placements. I have a suggestion for a 4th, though it is lower priority. It would be placed on where that forest is south of the wide lake. It would have a ton of hills in range, plus be able to work the iron, so I think it would be a killer production site. Minimal overlap with Berlin.

Speaking of, there's a Settler building in the capital now. Which site is more high priority? Sugar-Corn? Though we'd have to take out the Barb town first. Banana-Dye is near Hammy, but he's probably to busy to start settling now. Gold-Cow seems safe for a bit, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[nocho]

Interesting turn of events, with Monty dowing Hammu and actually capturing his capital! Now that we are at war anyway, I was wondering if we could actually reap some benefit by actually going on the offensive. It wouldn't be bad to own the jewish holy city, for instance... We could march there with bunch of axes to see if it's doable. And maybe raze/resettle or capture Nippur and Borsippa. Maybe shouldn't leave monty with all the spoils. The main point I'm trying to make is that we can kinda freely march in to see if there's something for the taking. If not, well, get peace and goodbye.

Ragnar is in WHEOOHRN though, so we should keep an eye on him. He's either after us or Gandhi, though I suspect it's Gandhi as our power is slightly higher than Ragnar's while Ragnar's is higher than Gandhi's. But you never know.

I'm ok with infiltrating Wang, as he's close to CoL and seems to be doing well so far. We should get open borders though, as I think there's a espionage discount if you have OB with your target (right?).

Oh, we should get the iron online!

Edit: another minor note, we should get a road to the sheep south of Munich, that'll help Cologne's health problems. The sheep itself is roaded, but none of the tiles around it, is...

 

[sturick]

Well done Sengir!
I think you made all the right choices as far as tech trading and joining the war goes.
Any diplo we can get with Monty is good diplo.

No good ideas on where to settle next but I agree that Wang should be the target of our infiltration. Getting CoL is the key...everything else we get with the points is gravy!

 

[muxec]

Well done Sengir!
I think you made all the right choices as far as tech trading and joining the war goes.
Any diplo we can get with Monty is good diplo.

No good ideas on where to settle next but I agree that Wang should be the target of our infiltration. Getting CoL is the key...everything else we get with the points is gravy!

Lurker opinion: If you have the awesome wall being attacked (yet not dogpiled by 5 morons) by Monty is a good thing as it gives you a free great general.