Not much to do but slowly pick off our rivals. If we do take HBR in trade it would probably be quicker to eliminate Washington and SB before knocking WK down. I would like to see us send some espionage points against WK. It will save our seige for collateral rather than bombarding on the first few cities (especially if we start now)
Both Sitting Bull and Washington, have both Machinery and Civil Service, and you know what that means, they are bee-lining Engineering. Or that they have Maces and Crossbows already.
They could Bribe Wang into war with us with Machinery, and we'd be faced with a 2 front war.
Best to hit Wang, the Religious heathen, take his MAINLAND CITIES 1st, then hit them to eliminate them in the North.
Finally hitting Wang once we have Astronomy.
Tech trades etc, its a serial game, not a game in perfection
Right, so my plan is to continue infra, getting the courthouses up and running, build monasteries/libraries in the science producing cities and army everywhere else.
On tech I'll take the Washy trade, as advertised last page, along with the SB one, and then my choice seems to be Machinery>Optics, Theology, or Paper>Education. So I'm not sure how we want to go that way (If no consensus I'll go the Lib path).
On war I'll be building an army not killing people, so the only decs my turns will be against us.
Edit: forgot to mention that I'll be playing around 9:00p.m. GMT.
Just kidding I wouldn't do something like this in a dying language.
I decided to play to 230 as I'm too wrecked with a head-cold to play farther (and my gameplay would get me a room 101 visit).
Auto-log:
Spoiler:
Logging by BUG Mod 4.3 [Build 2139] (BtS 3.13-3.19)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 219/750 (685 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:19:26] A Fishing Boats was built A Farm was built near Birka 50% Research: 130 per turn 0% Espionage: 14 per turn 50% Gold: -8 per turn, 15 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Birka Babylon finishes: Market Nippur finishes: Spearman Nidaros grows to size 5 Birka grows to size 2 Birka finishes: Courthouse
Other Player Actions: Civics Change: Washington(America) from 'Vassalage' to 'Bureaucracy'
Turn 220/750 (700 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:23:00] Diplomacy: Wang Kon (Korea) offers to trade Horseback Riding to Sengir-03 (Babylon) for Calendar Diplomacy: Sengir-03 (Babylon) rejects trade of Calendar to Wang Kon (Korea) for Horseback Riding Nippur begins: Swordsman (6 turns) Birka begins: Catapult (75 turns) Birka begins: Barracks (38 turns) Tech traded to Washington (America): Compass Tech traded to Washington (America): Calendar Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Horseback Riding Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting 50% Research: 130 per turn 0% Espionage: 16 per turn 50% Gold: 1 per turn, 82 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Borsippa
Other Player Actions: Civics Change: Sitting Bull(Native America) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
Turn 221/750 (715 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:30:24] Research begun: Machinery (9 Turns) Research begun: Paper (9 Turns) Research begun: Paper (6 Turns) 60% Research: 148 per turn 0% Espionage: 16 per turn 40% Gold: -18 per turn, 83 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Dur-Kurigalzu The whip was applied in Nidaros Uppsala finishes: Courthouse Vandal grows to size 4 Nidaros finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Turn 222/750 (730 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:33:58] Uppsala begins: Confucian Monastery (12 turns) Nidaros begins: Barracks (38 turns) A Farm was built near Dur-Kurigalzu A Farm was built near Uppsala A Farm was built near Birka 60% Research: 151 per turn 0% Espionage: 18 per turn 40% Gold: -10 per turn, 65 in the bank
After End Turn: Babylon finishes: Settler Akkad finishes: Courthouse Nidaros grows to size 4 Nidaros finishes: Barracks
Turn 223/750 (745 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:36:40] Babylon begins: Confucian Monastery (8 turns) Akkad begins: Galley (9 turns) Nidaros begins: Forge (45 turns) 60% Research: 150 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 40% Gold: -8 per turn, 55 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Dur-Kurigalzu A Village was built near Babylon Akkad grows to size 5 Dur-Kurigalzu grows to size 6 Dur-Kurigalzu finishes: Spy Birka finishes: Barracks
Turn 224/750 (760 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:42:11] Dur-Kurigalzu begins: Buddhist Monastery (90 turns) Birka begins: Catapult (75 turns) A Cottage was built near Babylon Sippar founded Sippar begins: Granary (45 turns) 60% Research: 154 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 40% Gold: -16 per turn, 47 in the bank
After End Turn: A Hamlet was built near Nippur Vandal finishes: Catapult Birka grows to size 3
Turn 225/750 (775 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:46:25] Diplomacy: Wang Kon (Korea) offers to trade Open Borders to Sengir-03 (Babylon) for Open Borders Diplomacy: Sengir-03 (Babylon) rejects trade of Open Borders to Wang Kon (Korea) for Open Borders Vandal begins: Forge (26 turns) 60% Research: 155 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 40% Gold: -18 per turn, 31 in the bank
After End Turn: Uppsala grows to size 8 Nippur finishes: Swordsman Vandal grows to size 5 Borsippa grows to size 6
Turn 226/750 (790 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:49:11] Nippur begins: Swordsman (6 turns) A Farm was built near Dur-Kurigalzu A Farm was built near Uppsala 50% Research: 137 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 50% Gold: 1 per turn, 13 in the bank
After End Turn: Tech research finished: Paper Nidaros grows to size 5 Haithabu grows to size 3 Haithabu finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Turn 227/750 (805 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:50:21] Research begun: Education (25 Turns) Haithabu begins: Courthouse (15 turns) Tech traded to Washington (America): Paper Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Theology Tech traded to Sitting Bull (Native America): Paper Tech traded to Sitting Bull (Native America): Calendar Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Machinery Borsippa begins: Confucian Monastery (15 turns) 50% Research: 132 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 50% Gold: 1 per turn, 54 in the bank
After End Turn: Babylon finishes: Confucian Monastery Nippur grows to size 8 Borsippa's borders expand
Turn 228/750 (820 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:56:41] Babylon begins: Buddhist Monastery (8 turns) 50% Research: 136 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 50% Gold: 1 per turn, 55 in the bank
Turn 229/750 (835 AD) [18-Aug-2010 21:58:55] A Farm was built near Nidaros A Farm was built near Babylon 50% Research: 138 per turn 0% Espionage: 20 per turn 50% Gold: 2 per turn, 56 in the bank
After End Turn: Whip anger has decreased in Nippur Akkad finishes: Galley
T230
Akkad Galley>Buddhist Mon
Put settler on Galley for Island.
Situation @T230
Spoiler:
Sorry for the lack of thoughts or role-playing but this basic report took me over 25minutes so I'm really fecked. I've left a few signs on the map though.
P.S. I didn't revolt, theo is useless without a SR.
Right my thoughts on our situation (as I'm feeling a lot better):
First diplomacy, we can't attack Washy yet as SB is in love with him, SB likes WK but not Washy, so we will be facing the possiblity of a dogpile if we declare on Wang.
Second the refuse open borders is not quite working, as WK has enough intercontinetal TRs to stay ahead tech wise, it was only with my Paper trades that we got back to some parity (well we're slightly ahead with 2 oldish techs)
Militarily we're good, I've got one constant pump and was working on three others (Vandal, Nidaros and Birka). I think we should pause to build a forge in Nippur and continue, until at least 1.2 against WK (probably building a few longbows in Nidaros for fear of the dogple). Also make the army cat heavy due to Medieval warfare.
Techwise our best option now is to go the Lib path, and hope our unknown adversaries aren't going for it too.
With WK out of the way I believe we'll be able to roll over the other two at our leisure, but I'd hold off until we find more enemies to stomp at astro, we may need more trades.
Finally if you take my word as gospel then you're more stupid than I am, these are just my ideas not a set-in-stone plan. I'm not BB you know.
For mrs roster-duty I have the message that I won't be available for playing from tomorrow until the 29th due to vacations abroad. With luck I might be able to lurk though.
For mrs roster-duty I have the message that I won't be available for playing from tomorrow until the 29th due to vacations abroad. With luck I might be able to lurk though.
If he's staying ahead of us with no trades, he'd be really dangerous if he had them. So I'd say it's working well, just not as well as we'd prefer.
1) nocho (skip until Aug 29th)
2) happyturtle
3) IPEX-731BA5DD06
4) Whosit (waiting for him to post that he's back)
5) Brian Shanahan 6) Norvin Green <<< Up
7) Sengir <<< On Deck
Well he was ahead until I traded paper around, and if we go to war properly he'll be dead. But I think the no-trade situation is hurting us as much as him, just that we can handle it a lot better.
Wang Kon, has 4 off shore internal trade routes to off set the hurt we've put on him. He had a lead, but now is being cut back, taking his Mainland city sites, will cripple him. His Capital, would be the driving source of most of his Technology. He has the Buddhist shrine in that city, and I assume a market place.
Defensively we have a Technological advantage, production wise as well, and a well defended Northern front. Hill tops and 20% Culture.
Hit Wang Kon, hit him hard, Crush his troops, take his cities, destroy is research. Game over.
Added to earlier remarks, we should send a Galley back with a settler to settle the Iron island and the ice fish island past it.
The internal trade routes will help greatly, and 1 longbow would be enough to hold them against an attack by Sitting Bull from the ocean.
Wang only has 3 off shore cities, 5 on mainland, 2 of those are virtual junk cities, only his capital, Wonsan and Pyongyang are worth anything.
Pyongyang will be the Bug bear, 2 protective longbows, on a hill top with 40% cultural Defence.
As well, Wangs in Caste System, his favourite civic, and as such won't be able to Whip rush Longbows. Probably fuelling his Research with Specialists in Capital (size 12 to ours 10 pop) and the other 2 cities at Size 7.
tech - keep going on education
espionage - we will be able to see WK's research in about 11 turns
Do we really want to settle those 2 junk cities way up north? I realize that they'll yield better trade routes but is it worth the extra maintenance? They'll take forever to build anything as well.
tech - keep going on education
espionage - we will be able to see WK's research in about 11 turns
Do we really want to settle those 2 junk cities way up north? I realize that they'll yield better trade routes but is it worth the extra maintenance? They'll take forever to build anything as well.
Build order pretty much following what I was doing, so agree.
On the two northern islands, Iron is very marginal and has no whip prospects until we build a lighthouse, but fish while still pretty much as marginal is fairly whippable, especially if we send a WB with the settle party. The maintenance will be a killer, when I settled Sippar deficit doubled from -8 to -16 due to it.
Personally I'd say we'll have definitely enough troops to start attacking at the end of your turnset if we so wish.
It was just a suggestion, more so to stop Sitting Bull beating us there 1st.
the Production, well, I only ever consider them extra Trade routes for our other cities. They'll pay for themselves, and boost trade to others. I really don't expect them to produce for the empire, only generate trade routes.
On hitting Wang, is it better to go the Grassland Wonsan 1st, then Seoul and Pyongyang last, longer distance. The final 2 mainland cities, 1 is settled upon Marble, we could use that city, the last, from memory, is it worth keeping for maintenance or just torch it.
We really need to move the Capital, and decide on a Forbidden Place site as well.
Well I've put my vote for Uppsala as capital, we could move it south to Pyongyang (but its a bad capital site), and have the FP in Boston in the north (eventually). I can't see any better division of locations, as all the best Korean sites are too far south, unless we take out the islands too, and the north is just too bad in general to be worth using as a capital site.
Akkad has its water poisoned. Whip the monastery in Borsippa overflow goes into a harbor.
Spoiler:
870 a.d. Turn 232
Whip Akkad monastery into a forge.
880 a.d. Turn 233
Trade extra silk for 3 gpt with SB.
900 a.d. Turn 235
Forge whip in Vandal which goes into a cat.
910 a.d. Turn 236
Dur-K gets its monastery whipped. Overflow into harbor.
920 a.d. Turn 237
WK gives us a nice boost by building the Colossus in Seoul. Nippur whips its forge and starts on HE.
Spoiler:
930 a.d. Turn 238
3-pop whip Dur-K harbor to get rid of unhappiness. Start a market for lack of a clear choice.
940 a.d. Turn 239
AP constructed somewhere under the Hindu faith. Opis founded on crab island. (My bad on settling delay as I didnt realize the crabs had a fish net already set up)
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