September Patch Notes Discussion

[Sostratus]

No, as I just posted, there are lines in global parameters xml that define damage reduction to walls. melee units have 85% damage reduction. ranged units have 50% damage reduction, but also have -17 combat modifier vs city defenses, which act as an additional -50%. However, Bombard units have no damage reduction vs city defenses, and naval ranged counts as bombard, thus they have no damage reduction vs city walls.

That's what I said. Naval ranged is coded as having "bombard strength". But they are also coded to not have the ranged -17 vs fortifications and -17 vs naval units. Thus they are not comparable to land ranged (or land siege).

I meant to say naval ranged instead of siege there. Early mornings!
I was only trying to point out (which you seem to understand, didn't have my coffee, clearly) that there's a -17 penalty for land ranged that everyone sees in the preview and a separate hidden penalty for walls themselves. I really wish the walls resistances was documented in the civilopedia.
Side note, imagine that whatever era we are in, the standard unit is strength X. This scheme is a bit silly because ranged units tend to be 5str weaker than a comparable melee, so the raw 22 (5 base+17 penalty) differential between ranged and melee gives a 0.4 multiplier or so, add on the 50% resist and you are really hitting for 20% (of X). Melee units hit for full but get this 85% penalty, hitting for 15% effectiveness. And melee units take damage when they attack.
This lack of counterattack damage has been an issue with direct and indirect attacking unit in turn based games since like, forever. Reminds me of nintendo's Advance Wars when I was a younger man.

Makes a certain sense if being in a position to bombard cities from sea doesn't occur often enough to warrant a naval bombardment class of unit.

It's a little iffy on Quads with their 1 range but, all the naval ranged after that have very big cannons that make even artillery units look inadequate.

I liked the knife fight in a phone box better

That phrase truly had me laughing the other day
Also, according to tile yields, the mausoleum is worth approx +9 gold per tile. Just imagining stacking it onto some decent polders or kampungs...

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Yes and I am seeing better city attacks
View attachment 534592

What difficulty is that? I have never seen barbarians pull out support units before.

 

[kb27787]

I'm loving the new camp and plantation buffs... Truffles early game are 5 gold once improved--rather insane since camps only require 1 tech to research! Plantation buffs certainly made olive and tea tiles (which used to suck) not so bad now once feudalism comes along. People say the coast was buffed, but really the buff to these improvements still mean inland cities are still better as long as you get more of these plantation/camp tiles (which makes them far better than fishing boats still).

Aside from religious settlements being almost impossible to get without early faith CS or UA now, AI now focuses a lot more on culture... and overall seems more efficient than pre-patch. They are very aggressive with early wonders (Apadana in particular, was gone before I even finished poly phi). Overall did not notice the coastal buffs helping coastal AIs that much... on Pangaea AIs that start in the middle still do significantly better than those that spawn on the coast as a rule.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Understanding that I'm playing a Phoenicia game and I'm just spamming the ports, but Veterancy . . . man what a nice subtle change that just changes everything.

 

[Jkchart]

On a side note, I'm really enjoying watching everyone's reactions to the "crowded" terra map. I normally play on small or tiny maps with an excessive number of civs, so for me only having room for 2-3 cities before wars have to start is pretty normal and you guys are acting like this is a completely mind-blowing experience.

I actually loaded the game for the first time in 6 months yesterday. I enjoyed it again.

Oh no...Duuk what have you done? THE APOCALYPSE

 

[criZp]

@Victoria @criZp

Looking at my file backups, Battleships have always had Ranged Strength going back to before R&F, never Bombard. I would also assume that the -17 "COMBAT_RANGED_VS_DISTRICT_STRENGTH_MODIFIER" malus is only applied to units with the "CLASS_RANGED" and "CLASS_AIRCRAFT" tags that also have a RangedCombat value.

They always had ranged strength, but they were not affected by the <Replace Name="COMBAT_DEFENSE_DAMAGE_PERCENT_RANGED" Value="50" />
Thus they attacked cities on par with bombard, not like other ranged units with the -50% damage hidden modifier.

 

[Victoria]

What difficulty is that? I have never seen barbarians pull out support units before.

Emp, yeah I think it is Emp and above need to check the barbarians.xml but gotta cook now

Leave you with god of fire pic... missed religious settlements... you may start off slow with god of fire but lots of volcanoes make dirt over a game. Changes are making us try new things!
No holy sites and 47 faith per turn.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

They always had ranged strength, but they were not affected by the <Replace Name="COMBAT_DEFENSE_DAMAGE_PERCENT_RANGED" Value="50" />
Thus they attacked cities on par with bombard, not like other ranged units with the -50% damage hidden modifier.

 

[criZp]

 

[Alexadamz]

Emp, yeah I think it is Emp and above need to check the barbarians.xml but gotta cook now

Leave you with god of fire pic... missed religious settlements... you may start off slow with god of fire but lots of volcanoes make dirt over a game. Changes are making us try new things!
No holy sites and 47 faith per turn.
View attachment 534597

I am choosing Goddess of Fire a lot lately. Had a great game with Gilga - Emperor, Huge, Continents - where I spawned on the borders of 3 continents, lots of volcanoes and geothemal fissures - one of the volcanoes was Kilimanjaro and the city there had amazing yields too. So easy to spam multiple civilian units at classical era with Monumentality.

 

[Victoria]

So easy to spam multiple civilian units at classical era with Monumentality.

Unconvinced, religion is far stronger and not that many volcanoes go off nor is your civ large enough in classical for the fire god to truly emerge, he is a renaissance god and funnily enough I play a renaissance civ. Just when I need to buy Redcoats.
Primordial maps is truly the realm of the god of fire.

 

[Tuvok694]

Since the update I hear additional "click sounds" during the game, is that normal?

 

[racha]

Anyone finding they can't progress after capturing a city on account of the keep city button not working? Has anyone pinned down which mod causes the issue?

Someone posted the answer to this on Steam - it's the Raze Capital mod that's causing this issue, regardless of whether or not the city in question is the capital. Disabling it makes everything work in the test game I fired up.

 

[Alexadamz]

Unconvinced, religion is far stronger and not that many volcanoes go off nor is your civ large enough in classical for the fire god to truly emerge, he is a renaissance god and funnily enough I play a renaissance civ.
Primordial maps is truly the realm of the god of fire.

I forgot to tell I play on Epic speed. I don't like the fast pace of Standard. It is easier to do that spam with that speed. Even more at Marathon. But overall I agree, classical is a bit early for things to work for religion.

 

[shaglio]

I am choosing Goddess of Fire a lot lately. Had a great game with Gilga - Emperor, Huge, Continents - where I spawned on the borders of 3 continents, lots of volcanoes and geothemal fissures - one of the volcanoes was Kilimanjaro and the city there had amazing yields too. So easy to spam multiple civilian units at classical era with Monumentality.

I forgot about Goddess of Fire! That Pantheon on the new Primordial map should be a blast! (pun fully intended)

 

[Jkchart]

I liked the knife fight in a phone box better

Just got the Mausoleum working in a bland city before seaports
View attachment 534595

Oh that's beautiful

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Funny thing, they didn't add a restriction to MoH to only allow it adjacent to the coast. So you can build it in a landlocked city next to a lake and not get any coast tile yields from it.

 

[MrRadar]

Aha! Unique unit era score no longer eliminates lesser era score, both are being awarded instead.
Can somebody check if this is the case with unique districts too? For example, if England builds RNDY which is also a Bustling Harbour (great adjacency), do you get both era scores? It was only for UD before.

 

[Haig]

I think city-states have natural wonders next to them now, at least more than usual.

 

[Victoria]

Am I a noob? Why can my bombard move 4? I have no generals nearby and am England. These landed the turn before... but even the level 5 infantry below the city can move 4.
EDIT:. It seems every unit thinks it is near a GG for some reason... no general present. Not every unit on the board gets this