SGFN 03: Pax Americana

[anaxagoras]

How about the palace jump? I prefer to call it off, given the expected length of this game. Even if we get another MGL I'd rather create another army with it. If we agree on this, do we want any infra in Washington?

I agree we should call off the jump. At this stage, it would be a waste of production to abandon Washington, and building the palace from scratch would be a waste of a leader. (I am really hoping we can end up with a cavalry army somewhere along the way. Keep units handy to add to the existing armies when the Pentagon completes, as well.)

As for infrastructure in Washington, we could add some, but Washington is providing a needed service as a settler pump at the moment. We need settlers more than almost anything else. I would say we should establish at least one or two alternate 4- or 5-turn settler pumps first, and only then worry about infrastructure in Washington.

Also, if Washington will stay the capital, I think we should settle the hill west of Washington, and rush culture (to capture the whales) and a harbor (for food). It is unusual to do CxC placement right next to the capital, but assuming we finish improving the rest of the Washington area to minimize overlap, a coastal city there could be a reasonably productive addition to the core, eventually generating 30 gpt or more.

 

[ThinkTank]

I agree we should call off the jump. At this stage, it would be a waste of production to abandon Washington, and building the palace from scratch would be a waste of a leader. (I am really hoping we can end up with a cavalry army somewhere along the way. Keep units handy to add to the existing armies when the Pentagon completes, as well.)

Ok, no palace jump then, unless the other team members can convince us otherwise.

As for infrastructure in Washington, we could add some, but Washington is providing a needed service as a settler pump at the moment. We need settlers more than almost anything else. I would say we should establish at least one or two alternate 4- or 5-turn settler pumps first, and only then worry about infrastructure in Washington.

I agree, I'll see if I can set up another settler factory or two.

Also, if Washington will stay the capital, I think we should settle the hill west of Washington, and rush culture (to capture the whales) and a harbor (for food). It is unusual to do CxC placement right next to the capital, but assuming we finish improving the rest of the Washington area to minimize overlap, a coastal city there could be a reasonably productive addition to the core, eventually generating 30 gpt or more.

I am not sure here. This city will increase the rank of all our cities, so it will cost us shields and commerce, and the return is only to be expected to come in when this city is big, which may take some time, and it will not be a high shields city, so the return will only consist of commerce, not of shields.

 

[ThinkTank]

I'm playing and still in the pre-turn of my first turn, but I discovered that the Byzantines and the Inca both have gunpowder now. That must have happened in the last IBT of sercer's set. I have made an embassy with the Greeks in order to investigate trading with them. I can trade gunpowder to the Greeks for 16 gpt and 111g, and they will also accept an alliance against the Inca as part of that deal. Should I do that? This may change the feasibility of taking on the Byz and the Inca at the same time. That may make it worth while to see if I can insult the Byz into declaring on us.

 

[sercer88]

Hmmm, Inca must have researched it...I think the Byzantines were still a couple turns from researching it at least.
I think that's okay...Although that would mean 20 turns without declaring war on Greece...
But they aren't too big, are they?

Just be sure not to wipe out the Incans within 20 turns of the deal...otherwise, we won't get all of the money we bargained for

 

[anaxagoras]

I can trade gunpowder to the Greeks for 16 gpt and 111g, and they will also accept an alliance against the Inca as part of that deal. Should I do that?

Do the deal. I don't think it matters that we won't be able to attack Greece for 20 turns, since they were last on our to-do list anyway. Besides, we'll probably get cavalry right around then, and we won't care about our reputation at that point.

I say make the trade, position units, then attack the Byzantines with overwhelming force. Let Greece distract the Incas for the moment, and we can take them on as we execute our wheel. We'll have to leave a guard on the Romans for a few turns, but that should be OK.

 

[ThinkTank]

Ok, I will make the deal. I did not play further and I probably won't be able to play until saturday, I hope that's fine with the team.

 

[anaxagoras]

I suggested building a town west of Washington on the hill, to which Think Tank responded:

I am not sure here. This city will increase the rank of all our cities, so it will cost us shields and commerce, and the return is only to be expected to come in when this city is big, which may take some time, and it will not be a high shields city, so the return will only consist of commerce, not of shields.

Is it possible to get CAII to tell you what the corruption effects on the rest of the empire will be after settling a new town? Or can you only check the actual results, not the hypothetical?

I'm very curious how bad the rank corruption effects would be on our empire from taking this step. I had assumed they would be minimal, but I have no data to support my assumption. I'm not sure I've ever even tried something like that.

 

[sercer88]

No, CAII will only show what the approximate corruption would be in the proposed town site (without a courthouse or police station, of course...)

 

[anaxagoras]

No, CAII will only show what the approximate corruption would be in the proposed town site (without a courthouse or police station, of course...)

In that case, would it be appropriate game etiquette to try it and see, then disregard the results if we don't like them? If we move a settler over there, check the empire numbers in CAII, save, then settle and check again, we could undo the action without any intervening information. All we'd lose is a couple turns of settler movement. Or does that smack too much of cheating?

If nobody else wants to try it, that's just fine by me, of course. I play poker, so I can certainly live with not knowing.

 

[TheOverseer714]

What's the cost/benefit of this new town? Will it help us win this game? Will it really affect corruption much, considering we are well over the OCN anyway? How long will it take to have a positive effect? I don't see it helping enough to justify a settler, a Temple, a Harbor, a Barracks, and any other infrastructure needed to make it useful. Just my opinion. As far as reloading, that is a breach of etiquette. If we do the town, we do it and live with any consequences. It won't cost us a victory, as I believe we are 50 turns or so from winning anyway. When we get cavalry, we can pretty much trash any city with enough of them. We already have 3 armies, and with proper management, our enemies will fall before us.

 

[anaxagoras]

As far as reloading, that is a breach of etiquette.

OK, skosh the town. That works for me. It was a questionable move, anyway.

 

[ThinkTank]

I played. Highlights: Romans and Babylonians are gone. KT and Pentagon completed. We are ready to beat up the Byzantines. Turn log coming up.

The save.

 

[ThinkTank]

550 AD Preturn.

I discover Byz and Inca have gunpowder. The Greeks don't so I establish embassy with them for 48g in order to investigate trades with them. They are willing to pay 111g and 16gpt for gunpowder as well as an alliance against the Inca. I stop and consult the team. Then I make the deal. Greeks declare on Inca. With the Romans and the Babs OCC this is starting to look like the war to end all wars.

Do an MM round.

Boston: is doing 11s for 7 turn knights while 10s will do. I MM it to 10s.
San Fransisco: as a consequence, SF gets the mined iron, and with a little bit of additional MM I bring KT in 12 down to KT in 7.
Philly: is doing 9s building knights, I MM that to 10s.
Chicago: Pentagon in 12, after MM in 9.
Atlanta: rush knight. I find our core completely undefended, which scares me a little. I am going to leave at least three good and cheap units for defense there (for this I will switch Atlanta to MDI after the knight finishes).

Kill two loose Inca units (2-0).

IBT
We get chemistry. Set research to metallurgy due in 7 at 2/7/1.

560 AD

Disperse barb camp because it is near our saltpeter city site.
Rush rax in Neapolis.
54 Olympia founded.
55 Hunt Valley founded.
Move troops towards Sardica.

IBT
2 Byz archers move W out of Sardica.

570 AD
Start insulting the Byz but they don't go for it.

IBT
See 2 Romas units leave Cumae.
The Byz are building KT.

580 AD.
Troop movement. Round 2 of insulting the Byz but they don't bite.

IBT not much.

590 AD.
Round 3 of insults does not work either. I declare. We kill 3 loose units at the cost of 1 Acav (5-1).
Upgrade 3 cats to trebs at Neapolis.
56 Springfield founded and we have salt online.
Battle for Sardica. 7 shots of the trebs only do 2 hp damage. Good news is there are only two defenders. We take these out and Sardica is ours. (7-1).
58 Palo Alto founded.

IBT
Byz complete Hanging Gardens in Adrianople. We have KT due in 2 and I now fear loosing it to a cascade.
We can not do much but hope.

600 AD
Troop movement.

IBT
Greeks and Babs sign alliance against the Inca. This is good, Greeks dig themselves deeper into the war with the Inca, and Byz have two enemies too now.
Education comes in from the GL and this ends the lifetime of the GL.
Greeks are building KT and Leo's. No cascade. Yet. Phew.
A Bab archer attacks a knight of ours from the city of Nicaea and the knight retreats. But in this action I see that there is a musket under the arcer in Nicaea, and it has walls. Bad. I decide to postpone taking on Nicaea until we can upgrade the trebs to cannons.
In the meantime, I will kill the Romans and the Babs. With everyone at war and allied I think we can afford this scratch on our rep. It also simplifies our the position in general and our approach of the Byz territories in particular.

610 AD
We kill a Byz spettler (8-1).
I send the Acav army towards the Babs.
MDI army and and Acav kill 2 units in Cumea and it is ours and the Romans are gone. (10-1)
60 Spokane founded.

IBT
San Fransisco finishes KT. Yes!
Greeks are building Leo's and Sistine.

620 AD
Kill 2 Byz units near Cumae (12-1).
I sell monotheism for 265 gold to the Babs and then I declare. Acav army kills 2 units in Nippur. (14-1)

IBT
Byz LB attacks a knight near Nicaea and we win (15-1)

630 AD
Acav army kills the last unit in Nippur and the Babs are gone (16-1).
Rush rax in Cumea for upgrading the trebs to cannons.

IBT
Metallurgy comes in, set research to MT due in 8 at 2/7/1.
SoZ obsolete.
Pentagon finishes.

640 AD
61 New washington founded.
Upgrade 9 trebs to cannons

IBT not much.

650 AD
Move forces towards Nicaea.

Notes to the next player:

Our forces are assembled near Nicaea, and are ready for battle. Go have some fun!
Our Acav army is returning from former Babylonia through Incan territory. There's an Acav waiting to join it.
A fair number of raxes completed in my turn, so military production should be good. I would suggest we stop building infra at this stage and go all out on military. We are really in the end game now and in a couple of turns we will have cavs. We can then shut down research and will have a good enough economy to finance our conquest.
There are two galleys travelling to our eastern shores since the Greeks have colonized an island that we eventually have to conquer.
I think one of the MDI armies should try to find the Byz salt and pillage it.

 

[Wandering Noob]

Nice turns, 16 and 1 is impressive. I am looking forward to getting the first of our cavalry during my turns. I agree about your points, especially the pillaging of saltpeter. There aren't any more land units until nationalism, so we really won't need research, and won't want to trade away any techs we have.

Good job!

 

[TheOverseer714]

ThinkTank! I agree that we are closing in on victory, with only 3 opponents left. Let us savage the Byzantines and Inca these next few turns!
I guess it's time for a roster update:
1: TheOverseer714=> on deck
2: Anaxagoras=> warming up
3: Sercer=> waiting
4: ThinkTank=> just played
5: WanderingNoob=> up

 

[anaxagoras]

Very nice! I beginning to wonder if I'll even get another set. We are rolling. Keep the mo-jo going, Noob!

I haven't looked at the save, but can we capture the Greek island cities in peace deals we don't intend to keep? Island captures are a pain in the neck, and as long as we don't care about our reputation, we might as well abuse it.

 

[sercer88]

Oh, I'm sure once we start facing Muskets our victories will decrease...don't be so hasty!!

 

[Elephantium]

lurker's comment: More pics would be appreciated.

 

[ThinkTank]

lurker's comment: More pics would be appreciated.

We still have at least one lurker! Here you go. The core:

Spoiler :

The front:

Spoiler :

Nice turns, 16 and 1 is impressive.

Thanks! But sercer is right:

Oh, I'm sure once we start facing Muskets our victories will decrease...

The good odds are partly explained by the fact that I did not take on muskets behind walls and waited for the trebs to be ugraded to cannons. Anyway, as has been said before we all have had very good combat odds this game. I think this shows that the team as a whole knows how to fight, and in particular to only engage in battles when the odds are good. We will be facing muskets now and before we have cavs this will slow us down a bit. This doens't matter much, just remember to keep the losses low, and we will pick up speed with the cavs.

 

[sercer88]

or we could only attack with our armies!!?
and only attack with our AC and Knights against 1 hp units (more trebs!!!!!!!)