lurker's comment: I haven't been able to play much civ for a while, but IIRC, muskets are 2.4.1, so I think Overseer's right. Offensively, they're expensive archers. OTOH, they're not bad defenders for some LBs and some trebs. More than anything, I'd like to see this team catch a break. If you guys had had iron near the capital, this would have been an entirely different game.
SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
- Start date
Lurkers Comment:
If you have muskets now and the pentagon I can tell you that a LB army will not be attacked in the field with LB LB LB Musket. A LB LB LB LB will get attacked by some units. Both armies can kill muskets and I have even killed 2 muskets in a city with an all LB army. Never tried them on rifles though.
If you have muskets now and the pentagon I can tell you that a LB army will not be attacked in the field with LB LB LB Musket. A LB LB LB LB will get attacked by some units. Both armies can kill muskets and I have even killed 2 muskets in a city with an all LB army. Never tried them on rifles though.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I am playing, almost done. Thanks to the previous players, things are going very well. There is hope!
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Thus ends a right fine set of turns. I managed to only lose 2 units. I did very well, the Mountain on the Choke, (or Firebase 1, as I think of it) is great for picking off enemies. Here is the save and turn-log:
The save:
Spoiler :
The save:
splunge the 2nd
King
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 741
Excellent turnset!
At the end, you said we're strong compared to the Dutch. Do they have a settler on a galley?
Did we build the Heroic Epic yet?
Who's on next? (I don't know-third base!)
At the end, you said we're strong compared to the Dutch. Do they have a settler on a galley?
Did we build the Heroic Epic yet?
Who's on next? (I don't know-third base!)
Thorogood is good on One Scotch, One bourbon, One Beer, but Amos Milburn is my favorite.
Pentagon is a nice bonus. A four-horse army will be able to handle things more or less by itself at the choke point (well, in combination with artillery, anyways).
Though, this begs the question--if we put spears on the mountain and on the two swamp squares, will the enemy even bother to approach us??????????? Right now we have horses there, which I think they'd be inclined to kill--but even with those, they may say "no clear path to anything we want to kill", and move on. Which would obviously be awesome. We need to figure this out.
IMO next player should IMMEDIATELY start moving our galleys toward whichever enemy we decide we're going to invade. We should (obviously) also stack units near that site as well.
It's a one-turn sail from Nurnberg to Herakleia, and that'd be my first choice. Ships loaded just outside Nurnberg (a one-longbow army, three more longbows for loading, and a few spears for defense for the first run) can move one square, unload on the grass WSW of Herakleia, then move back two squares into Nurnberg. Units can load the boats, and on turn two the boats can sail 3 squares and unload into the forest directly W of Herakleia, and be joined there by the army and spears. We should be able to ship a couple dozen units in this manner, and that should be a pretty effective strike force.
Though, this begs the question--if we put spears on the mountain and on the two swamp squares, will the enemy even bother to approach us??????????? Right now we have horses there, which I think they'd be inclined to kill--but even with those, they may say "no clear path to anything we want to kill", and move on. Which would obviously be awesome. We need to figure this out.
IMO next player should IMMEDIATELY start moving our galleys toward whichever enemy we decide we're going to invade. We should (obviously) also stack units near that site as well.
It's a one-turn sail from Nurnberg to Herakleia, and that'd be my first choice. Ships loaded just outside Nurnberg (a one-longbow army, three more longbows for loading, and a few spears for defense for the first run) can move one square, unload on the grass WSW of Herakleia, then move back two squares into Nurnberg. Units can load the boats, and on turn two the boats can sail 3 squares and unload into the forest directly W of Herakleia, and be joined there by the army and spears. We should be able to ship a couple dozen units in this manner, and that should be a pretty effective strike force.
Also, I assume the settler that is W of Stuttgart should move 2W and settle there, to make use of the fish and be a generally semi-useful city (chop forest, harbor, library=decent science). That's better than settling in the lands south of Amsterdam.
It's probably worth switching Eindhoven to a settler--getting another town down will help our crippling unit support costs and let us rush a few more things sooner if needed.
Which they may be--not to be the bearer of bad news, but Persia has Chivalry, horses, and iron. Just saying that things are about to get really really ugly.
Can we spare one galley to scout Scandinavia's coast? If there's a really obvious iron city to take, that would convince me to switch. We simply MUST get iron soon, or we're going to lose this (or at minimum be in a nuke-fest or something).
It's probably worth switching Eindhoven to a settler--getting another town down will help our crippling unit support costs and let us rush a few more things sooner if needed.
Which they may be--not to be the bearer of bad news, but Persia has Chivalry, horses, and iron. Just saying that things are about to get really really ugly.
Can we spare one galley to scout Scandinavia's coast? If there's a really obvious iron city to take, that would convince me to switch. We simply MUST get iron soon, or we're going to lose this (or at minimum be in a nuke-fest or something).
A word of criticism: we have way too many barracks! This is wasting a lot of gold. No need to have barracks in every city! For example, why did Nünberg and Hannover build one? Here is what I said in #652:
But apparently no one understood the reason for this. Instead the following happened:
So what is happening now is:
I probably forgot a few, but if you add up these cities alone, we already wasted 116 gold for nothing...
Basically we want a set of cities with barracks, and these build units and nothing else. And then we want a small number of cities without barracks, which can build the longterm projects like Herioc Epic, Pentagon, Military Academy, Knight's Templar, etc. During those times, when there is no large project to build, they can build galleys and artillery, so still no need for barracks!
Other than that I think things are looking better than ever before!
I support all of DWetzel's suggestions (except for one), so let me sum everything up for GamezRule:
Here's the point that I disagree:
No, that would be bad, because then the AI would no longer send their units on the long march down south to the choke point! Please always make sure, that the path towards Eindhoven/Groningen is free (i.e. not blocked by a high-defense unit like an Army or a Templar)! We want these enemy units keep coming, because otherwise the job for our northern landing force would be much much harder! (And also by now our choke point is a nice killing and leader-fishing zone...) I would not even settle the "Chokepoint City" right now, because that only makes the defense more difficult. Perhaps even draining that swamp is already a mistake, because it gives their horsemen 2-movement, so less opportunities for our artillery to hit them!
Lanzelot
But apparently no one understood the reason for this. Instead the following happened:
(Didn't find out when Nürnberg got barracks.)
So what is happening now is:
- Frankfurt is spending 30 turns on the Heroic Epic
- Hamburg is spending 28 turn on the Knight's Templar
- Hannover is spending 15 turns on an aqueduct (after completing the barracks and one single horse! If you wanted Hannover to grow, then you should have built the aqueduct first and afterwards the barracks. Would have saved a lot of gold and food!)
- Similarly for Köln, which is spending ~26 turns on an aqueduct while having barracks
- and for Heidelberg, which is currently spending 17 turns on an aqueduct.
I probably forgot a few, but if you add up these cities alone, we already wasted 116 gold for nothing...
Basically we want a set of cities with barracks, and these build units and nothing else. And then we want a small number of cities without barracks, which can build the longterm projects like Herioc Epic, Pentagon, Military Academy, Knight's Templar, etc. During those times, when there is no large project to build, they can build galleys and artillery, so still no need for barracks!
Other than that I think things are looking better than ever before!
I support all of DWetzel's suggestions (except for one), so let me sum everything up for GamezRule:
- Send one of the galleys 3 N to scout the east coast of scandinavia. If there's really an easily reachable iron, we want to claim it with a combat settler, perhaps.
- If there's no iron there, move all galleys to Nürnberg in anticipation of the coming landing at Herakleia.
- With our current 8 galleys we can land 16 units in the first wave, but I don't think we should already include our Army in the first wave. 16 units will not be enough for taking Athens. I don't want to take Herakleia, because after that the Greeks would stop sending their units down to the choke point and would instead throw them at our beachhead. We don't want that! Let the first wave dig in on the hills and wait for the second wave. With a Templar inside the Longbow Army fortified on a hill, the AI will certainly not attack that stack.
- Once we have 32 units assembled, we march towards Athens and break their backbone... Afterwards we can pickup their towns with the following waves and the remainder of the first stack. I suggest the following 32 units for that initial assault force: 11 Longbows, 11 Trebuchets, size-2 Army, 1 Templar, 3 Spearmen, 4 Horsemen
- Yes, settle the spot 2SW of Heidelberg next turn! It's a decent spot, I wonder why it hasn't been settled already. (After all, one of the reasons why we disbanded the original Heidelberg was that we wanted to settle there by the fish, right?!)
Here's the point that I disagree:
No, that would be bad, because then the AI would no longer send their units on the long march down south to the choke point! Please always make sure, that the path towards Eindhoven/Groningen is free (i.e. not blocked by a high-defense unit like an Army or a Templar)! We want these enemy units keep coming, because otherwise the job for our northern landing force would be much much harder! (And also by now our choke point is a nice killing and leader-fishing zone...) I would not even settle the "Chokepoint City" right now, because that only makes the defense more difficult. Perhaps even draining that swamp is already a mistake, because it gives their horsemen 2-movement, so less opportunities for our artillery to hit them!
Lanzelot
One can always manipulate the AI by opening and closing the gates at will, of course--which is best of all, as it keeps the enemy units in limbo between attacking and wandering aimlessly, while not tying up too many units on the defense of the chokepoint.
For now, it's probably not a big deal, because we don't really have transportation for the units that are currently at the chokepoint.
For now, it's probably not a big deal, because we don't really have transportation for the units that are currently at the chokepoint.
Also, I was "that guy" who built a few more barracks. At the time, I felt we were woefully short on units (which we were, and the ones we have now need to be put to work), and had some actual concerns that we needed all the production we could get. We also had a couple of cities building regular units, and my thoughts were (probably, it's been a while) that if we needed units from those cities, we ought to build the barracks first!
If we see a couple of cities that genuinely don't need barracks for quite a long time, feel free to sell them off. I won't take it personally. Obviously, you can't sell the barracks where we're building Knights Templar.
Our problem is that we need useful units (now, longbows), we need HE and (in my opinon) KT, and we don't have a lot of highly productive cities. We have a lot of mediocre at best cities. Which means we can either:
a) have a couple of our highly productive cities build KT and HE, and get them soon, and let our mediocre cities build longbows. Which would be the way I do it, except those mediocre cities need barracks then.
b) Let one of the mediocre cities go without barracks for a while and build HE and KT there, and accept that it'll take like 40 turns (or in the case of KT, probably not at all).
If we see a couple of cities that genuinely don't need barracks for quite a long time, feel free to sell them off. I won't take it personally. Obviously, you can't sell the barracks where we're building Knights Templar.
Our problem is that we need useful units (now, longbows), we need HE and (in my opinon) KT, and we don't have a lot of highly productive cities. We have a lot of mediocre at best cities. Which means we can either:
a) have a couple of our highly productive cities build KT and HE, and get them soon, and let our mediocre cities build longbows. Which would be the way I do it, except those mediocre cities need barracks then.
b) Let one of the mediocre cities go without barracks for a while and build HE and KT there, and accept that it'll take like 40 turns (or in the case of KT, probably not at all).
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I think HE should be rushed with an MGL the next time we can't build an army. Right now, we have 4 armies and when 2 new towns get built we can have 1 more. That means handbuilding the HE isn't a large concern when we'll get it faster by rushing it anyway. Frankfurt can still build Longbows and in 8 turns, Hamburg can return to that duty too. As far as "too many barracks", reminder, this is AW. No barracks is a waste unless its in a corrupt area that isn't on the front. Onward, to strategy: Now that the heats off at the moment, we need to think about pillaging. The Spear army should be sent to Persia to pillage their Iron and Horses, and we'll see no knights from them. The choke is now secure, so Spears can guard the mountain. Any enemy in that area can be red-lined and killed with whats there. As far as unit support goes, disband catapults, build cities and attack the enemy, and soon there will no problem. The core catapults should be replaced with trebuchets before being disbanded.
Ok, I haven't actually played those gruelling turns a while ago, perhaps it was indeed necessary to have that many barracks to deal with the onslaught at that time. (However, the one in Hannover produced exactly one horseman so far, so that barrack didn't really pay of yet.)
No, the KT is highest priority now, so let Hamburg do it. We don't want to miss that wonder... But perhaps we can set a medium city without barracks on the HE? (Though I think we don't have any city without barracks anymore...
Disbanding one feels terrible as well, don't know if we should do that?!)
No, the KT is highest priority now, so let Hamburg do it. We don't want to miss that wonder... But perhaps we can set a medium city without barracks on the HE? (Though I think we don't have any city without barracks anymore...
Disbanding one feels terrible as well, don't know if we should do that?!)Good idea, let's go for it!
del62
Deity
Lurkers Comment:
I am confused Overseer says KT is due in 11 turns, but Lanzelot has said 28 turns.
Which is correct?
I am confused Overseer says KT is due in 11 turns, but Lanzelot has said 28 turns.
Which is correct?
Perhaps we take Lanzelot's idea and disband a barracks. I can take a peek at the save so I can finally post some suggestions.
EDIT: Right now I have been told to:
1. Send Spear Army to Persia on a pillaging mission.
2. Move KT to Hamburg.
3. Move HE to Hannover and disband the barracks???
4. Rush HE with a MGL if possible. ?Move Production to what?
5. Please post other things that I missed, Lurkers or players.
EDIT: Right now I have been told to:
1. Send Spear Army to Persia on a pillaging mission.
2. Move KT to Hamburg.
3. Move HE to Hannover and disband the barracks???
4. Rush HE with a MGL if possible. ?Move Production to what?
5. Please post other things that I missed, Lurkers or players.
Correct is: 8 turns...
Ok, I don't have the .sav ready, but from what I recall, the following happened:
3 turns before the end of his turnset Overseer switched Hamburg to build the KT. At that time it was still 11 turns from completion (this explains Overseer's number), because Hamburg had already worked 17 turns on the Pentagon and had already collected a lot of shields. (This explains my number, which was a grand total: 17+11=28.)
Now Overseer played on 3 more turns to finish his set, so right now there are 8 turns left on the KT. This also clears up GamezRule's question: no need to move KT to Hamburg, it is already there...
3. Haven't really thought about where we want to build HE at the moment.
Perhaps let Hannover finish its current project (Aqueduct). It will become a
great research site that way. So that would leave the HE in Frankfurt. Disband the
barracks there? I'm really not sure.
4. If we really get an MGL before the completion of the HE, we could keep collecting
shields in Frankfurt, either for another wonder (Sun Tzu?) or for the Military Academy?
(But then we would need faster research.)
5. Scout Scandinavian east cost
6. If there's no iron there, move all galleys to Nürnberg
7. settle 2SW of Heidelberg (there is a settler already in place)
If we get another leader, I'd rather see another army (for offense against Greece/Persia). We will have the cities soon enough. HE is only 200 shields, it's not THAT hard to build.
When pillaging Persia, I believe they have 1 source of horses and 3-4 sources of iron, so I'd prioritize the horses (to eliminate knights). Immortals suck too but trying to keep all their iron pillaged will be... unlikely.
When pillaging Persia, I believe they have 1 source of horses and 3-4 sources of iron, so I'd prioritize the horses (to eliminate knights). Immortals suck too but trying to keep all their iron pillaged will be... unlikely.
Similar threads
