SGOTM 01 - V Q

[namliaM]

We won't need the happy if we get the 'mids. Representation will give us +3 happy most likely...

I did try a test game which I just took random opponents but took our current layout. I didnt settle any new city but did build 2 settlers prior to starting the mids. The mids were build prior to 800, 2 times. So IF we want to get it, reallisticaly we cannot build the 2 settlers.

We should even forgo getting the rice for now. We can grow to 5 anyway and no further due to happy limit.
For a good shot at the mids we need to get Masonry + BW in that order.
Where we want BW before we settle our second city, i.e. BW + Masonry in this order.
Nice conflict.

Also we need to connect the stone asap, and possibly whip the mids ASAP. i.e. sacrifice 3 pop to get it...

 

[bobrath]

and 'mids is short for Pyramids!

 

[Maquis]

I agree with namliaM, we should really push for the mids. The engineer GPP will really be great too. Popping an early engineer can rush us another early wonder...

 

[namliaM]

and 'mids is short for Pyramids!

Sorry I thought Mids was generaly accepted CFC slang?! Appearently not so I will from now refer to them as Pyramids....

Edit:
Rushing the Pyramids, means starting a Settler directly after the worker
Setting research to Masonry ASAP, which is directly after Mining finishes....
Worker would go:
SE-Farm-Stop
S-Pasture
Then what?
a)
NW Road-Mine
N-NW
Road
NW
Quary-road
SE-Chop

b)
Skip the mine, till (much) later
N-NW (to Thebes)
NW
Road
NW
Quary-Road
SE-Chop
SE-S-Mine-Road

I imagine mining the hill will delay the quary on the stone quite a bit... but if we connect it on the turn we get masonry (or can start the Pyramids after the settler, whichever is the right one) that is early enough...

 

[bobrath]

It might be commonly accepted and I've been able to get through multiple games without ever realizing my innocence! Its all good, just had to have a bit of fun at your expense. I am but a prince to your emperor after all.

 

[namliaM]

It might be commonly accepted and I've been able to get through multiple games without ever realizing my innocence! Its all good, just had to have a bit of fun at your expense. I am but a prince to your emperor after all.

Dont matter anyway, just as long as we understand eachother and have fun meanwhile.

What about rushing the mids to be ours? What route do we take so we can ensure the mids will fall to us?

 

[Maquis]

Not that it will make a HUGE difference, but once the stone is hooked up, we can chop 1 forest (once BW is in of course) Also, slavery to it ASAP. We'll grow back so fast anyways...

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, I'm totally confused

So ... worker should do a farm fp first ... then pasture the cows ... then mine a hill ... then quarry the stone?

And my builds should be Finish the Worker > Warrior (while growing to 4) > Settler?

And research should be Finish Mining > Masonry > BW?

(I have no issue with doing this, I want to make sure that I'm not misreading someone)

 

[namliaM]

Farm the FP 1 turn ....

To get to the Cow you have to move 2 tiles (SE-S). Costing 1 turn...
Instead you can Move 1 tile (SE) and farm the FP. Now select the worker & hit stop or send him 1S to the cow and pasture it.
This has the same effect as going SE-S but gets the 1 turn in on Farming since each worker turn is preserved.

Pasturing the Cow is #1 as it adds 1 food and 2 hammers, by far the best and quickest improvement.
After the Cow I am not sure what to do. Finish the Farm or Start the mine.
On size 4 working the pastured cow 3/3+ FP 3/0 + Stone 0/3? + Plains Hill 1/2 + CC 2/1 = 9/9 food/hammer on 4 pop = 1 food surplus...
Maybe work FP instead of Plains Hill?
pastured cow 3/3+ FP 3/0 + Stone 0/3? + FP 3/0 + CC 2/1 = 11/7
what do we need more ? Hammers I think to push mids.
Whats more effective? Running more food now? and working the max hammers on size 5?
Max food = Cow + FP + FP + FP +CC = 14/4 at +6food.
I dont know, I honestly dont... Any wisdom from others???

Edit:
On builds I would go Worker => Settler straight... Start moving the warrior out of Thebes toward the new city a bit early and build a new warrior for Thebes after the Settler. Should be just 2 or 3 turns for the new warrior.

Should we sacrifice 1 pop to get the settler out sooner?

 

[ChrTh]

We don't need the hammers from the cow for the settler, though, and having the extra food from the fp will get the settler quicker iirc.

Guys, this is turning too much in a micro-managing game and I did not sign up for that -- in fact, that's why I stopped playing Civ3. Farm for 1 turn then keep moving??! Forget it. If this is what y'all expect, you might as well drop me now because there's no way I'm spending an hour on each year.

Unless someone screams bloody murder, I've chosen to do what I listed above.

 

[bobrath]

Heh, the work en route stuff is something I just found out about myself. Its a quirk I'll use if I think about it as I'm playing.

TBH, I do think we're all becoming a bit guilty of over analyzing and game planning. I'm going to fall back on trusting your judgements as you play - just like I've done in other SGs.

 

[namliaM]

I am sorry for beeing a bit fanatical... CFC after all he?

Doing the step stop is what I do more or less automatic recently, It really helps in the early going where turns count. Getting that cottage the one turn earlier, can make the difference....

Anyway, Pasture should go first ... I think... Both food + hammers build settlers. Adding a farm to an FP adds 1 food (aka production unit) adding the pasture adds 3 hammers(production units) to the 'FP' (making a 3/3 tile afterall)

I agree its all about fun, and learning, for me currently its both... I am a bit of a strategist... and planner... I love going back and forth like this... but do lets keep it fun, for all of us.

Once again, sorry.

 

[ChrTh]

Alright, before I get playing, let's get some screenshots going:

What we're dealing with (I hope that's legible):

The North:

The West:

Some notes before starting:

As of now,
Masonry will take 14 turns to research, BW will take 21 ... therefore going for BW first makes no sense as we should have a settler popped before BW comes in.

Worker is due in 7 turns. Settler would take 22 turns at size 3 so I think it's worth it to grow to size 4 before building the settler (I believe it'll take 8 turns to grow after the worker is done).

The Cows *are* on the fresh water (namliaM was right ) ... the city screenshot obscured the fact that it was a double tile crossing for the river.

Turn 1 -- 3070 BC

Buddhism has been founded in a distant land.

Scout moves to hill ... yeah, I think we're talking Isthmus.

Turn 2 -- 3040 BC

Mining comes in. We have a choice of BW in 18 or Masonry in 12...I said earlier that the Settler would be popped before BW came in, but I'm rethinking that: 5 turns for the worker plus 7-8 turns to grow plus the settler build > 18 ... so I'm going to go with BW for and copper reveal and chopping.

Oh yeah, we're talking Isthmus ... with cows! (pic in a couple turns after more has been revealed).

Another scout of Cathy's on our side, hrmm ... I wonder if she's wedged in there to the South.

Turn 3 -- 3010 BC

Uh oh, Lions ... I hope the scout wins. If not, here's the Isthmus:

Turn 4 -- 2980 BC

The Scout loses. Combat log reveals the Lion only had a 25.9% chance of winning I make offering to the RNG God

I reckon I'll be only pressing Enter for a bit ...

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 7 -- 2890 BC

The Governor is an idiot:

Hellllllllo, I just finished a Worker!

Ok, so worker is finished. Building a farm takes 10 turns? Sheesh! Ok ... I guess I will do a mea culpa and do the 1-turn farm-and-move

So now, what to build? I hate that our scout died ... but I kinda want to build a Warrior. Ok, this is what I'm going to do: I'm going to slow down growth of Thebes by working the stone, this will pop a Scout in 5 turns. After it's done, I'll revisit.

Turn 8 -- 2860 BC

Ok, building a pasture will only take 6 turns. I start on that.

Turn 9 -- 2830 BC

Our borders expand ... we now block the way NE of Thebes

Turn 12 -- 2740 BC

Ok, Scout is completed. Start Warrior, due in 6. Thebes is due to grow in 8, however, once cows are online that should (maybe) increase.

Turn 14 -- 2680 BC

We've got cows

Warrior now due in 2, Thebes will grow in 4.

Turn 15 -- 2650 BC

Mining of hill begins, done in 6.

Oh good, Cathy has a Russian scout leading our scout along ... hopefully any lions will hit them instead of us.

Turn 16 -- 2620 BC

Warrior is finished, will let Barracks build for 2 more turns before switching to Settler.

Cathy has Archery, and a city near the Isthmus (wasn't there before)

Turn 17 -- 2590 BC

No wait, NOW she has a city on the Isthmus (the other Orange must be Moscow's borders). Well, our Scout is now needed for fog-busting duties as we can't get past Cathy. I will manuever him to coasts we haven't looked at.

Turn 18 -- 2560 BC

Thebes grows to Size 4. Settler is started, due in 14.

Turn 20 -- 2500 BC

Bronze Working comes in. Revolt to Slavery. Start Masonry (due in 10).

I've found Copper ... doh!:

Mine is built. I switch to that tile, making it Masonry in 11, but Settler now due in 11 as well (shaving a turn) ... GreyFox can switch back to 10/12 if he so chooses.

I think waiting to size 4 was a good thing; Settler will be done in about the same amount of time and we got a Warrior and Scout in the interim (and more turns on the Barracks! ).

Here's the world:

 

[ChrTh]

Turnlog:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3100 BC to 2500 BC:

Turn 30, 3100 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 31, 3070 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Turn 33, 3010 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs VQ's Scout (2.45)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: Combat Odds: 25.9%
Turn 33, 3010 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: VQ's Scout is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: VQ's Scout is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: VQ's Scout is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: VQ's Scout is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: VQ's Scout is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: VQ's Scout is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 33, 3010 BC: Barbarian's Lion has defeated VQ's Scout!

Turn 36, 2920 BC: You have trained a Worker in Thebes. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 38, 2860 BC: The borders of Thebes have expanded!

Turn 41, 2770 BC: You have trained a Scout in Thebes. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 45, 2650 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Thebes. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 49, 2530 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!

Turn 50, 2500 BC: VQ adopts Slavery!

Er, not sure what I'm doing wrong trying to link to the save ... you can grab it off the Submission Page.

 

[Maquis]

The Scout loses.

Crap... bad RNG bites us early. Oh well... Maybe a warrior now once the worker is done?

 

[ChrTh]

I am sorry for beeing a bit fanatical... CFC after all he?

Doing the step stop is what I do more or less automatic recently, It really helps in the early going where turns count. Getting that cottage the one turn earlier, can make the difference....

Anyway, Pasture should go first ... I think... Both food + hammers build settlers. Adding a farm to an FP adds 1 food (aka production unit) adding the pasture adds 3 hammers(production units) to the 'FP' (making a 3/3 tile afterall)

I agree its all about fun, and learning, for me currently its both... I am a bit of a strategist... and planner... I love going back and forth like this... but do lets keep it fun, for all of us.

Once again, sorry.

It's ok I apologize for getting frustrated... I ended up doing it anyway

 

[ChrTh]

Crap... bad RNG bites us early. Oh well... Maybe a warrior now once the worker is done?

Ummm...scroll up to see what I did

EDIT: PS, forgot to mention this ... I think we're going to want to UU rush Cathy.

 

[ChrTh]

@eektor: I think they have your name wrong in the roster (u instead of o) you'll need to get that fixed or you won't be able to upload a save.

 

[AlanH]

@eektor: I think they have your name wrong in the roster (u instead of o) you'll need to get that fixed or you won't be able to upload a save.

lurker's comment: Fixed. Sorry!