SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Sorry for the mediohchre TS, guys. RL got got hectic at around turn 8, and I should've probably stopped at this point, but... it's CiV!!! (just... one... more... turn) So no wrap up, MMing, and of course forgetting to turn on research near the end - apologies.
Anyway, the plan for Izzy sounds good. In fact, I agree with pretty much everything in Blubmuz last post. Will operations begin this TS? - I am not at home with the save (had to leave during mine
) so I'm not sure how the army's coming along.
I was checking scores - we are about 100 behind CFR (at the same point). We'll see how it looks when we beat up Izzy. Not that score is the point of this
Anyway, the plan for Izzy sounds good. In fact, I agree with pretty much everything in Blubmuz last post. Will operations begin this TS? - I am not at home with the save (had to leave during mine
) so I'm not sure how the army's coming along.I was checking scores - we are about 100 behind CFR (at the same point). We'll see how it looks when we beat up Izzy. Not that score is the point of this
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I've "hardly" edited my previous post #159, please be sure to have seen the latest version.
Some more questions, about "daily" actions:
a) When the worker finish his job on COWS, kill him, or fogbust in the stone island? I hate this, but I preferer to kill him and let the galley fogbust (I can't see a useful employment for ages)
b) For S&T i suggest to break the lighthouse for a warrior, once the cows are pastured.
c) How do you think is better manage the poprushes in Kyoto and S&T?
d) TOKYO: once reached s.3, stagnating it can produce 9 H - I like this, it can really speed our military production (1 Axe every 6 turns, with 2H OF).
e) OSAKA will produce 12H once iron is mined, that means 1 Sword every 5 turns
Reflection: Oracle 940 BC = high chances for a GP, let's hope this, a religion is needed.
Some more questions, about "daily" actions:
a) When the worker finish his job on COWS, kill him, or fogbust in the stone island? I hate this, but I preferer to kill him and let the galley fogbust (I can't see a useful employment for ages)
b) For S&T i suggest to break the lighthouse for a warrior, once the cows are pastured.
c) How do you think is better manage the poprushes in Kyoto and S&T?
d) TOKYO: once reached s.3, stagnating it can produce 9 H - I like this, it can really speed our military production (1 Axe every 6 turns, with 2H OF).
e) OSAKA will produce 12H once iron is mined, that means 1 Sword every 5 turns
Reflection: Oracle 940 BC = high chances for a GP, let's hope this, a religion is needed.
Blubmuz, my vote on your questions:
a) Kill the worker
b) Why warrior instead of archer?
c) I usually try to get a 1 or 2 unhappy faces before whipping. This keeps the cities at full production.
d) & e) sound good, although even at this rate it's going to be a while before we have our army ready. It might be worthwhile to spend some research to upgrade a warrior, especially if it gets us 6 turns closer to war.
a) Kill the worker
b) Why warrior instead of archer?
c) I usually try to get a 1 or 2 unhappy faces before whipping. This keeps the cities at full production.
d) & e) sound good, although even at this rate it's going to be a while before we have our army ready. It might be worthwhile to spend some research to upgrade a warrior, especially if it gets us 6 turns closer to war.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
it's cheaper, but if you and the team prefer an archer, no problem.BrianS said:
Please, I need answers also for my post 159.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
What does everybody think about marching straight up to Madrid and declaring war there, taking it first? (Assuming we have a clear path to walk up there) Usually the loss of a capital this early in the game is a death blow, since it is the most productive city. I won't say that it's a loss of morale because obviously the AI doesn't have emotions like a human does, but the loss of the capital in an early war is still very crippling to them. They tend to fold up like accordions after that.
Additionally, they will throw their remaining resources at the capital piecemeal in an attempt to retake it, crippling the rest of their forces and allowing us to chop them up one at a time. Our follow-on forces can move north from our cities, chewing off the southern cities on the way.
BLumbmuz, I don't have any issues with post 159 that haven't already been addressed by other posts or what I've mentioned above. Looks like a decent plan to me.
I would like somebody to help me understand why binary research is better than researching at say, 60%.
Additionally, they will throw their remaining resources at the capital piecemeal in an attempt to retake it, crippling the rest of their forces and allowing us to chop them up one at a time. Our follow-on forces can move north from our cities, chewing off the southern cities on the way.
BLumbmuz, I don't have any issues with post 159 that haven't already been addressed by other posts or what I've mentioned above. Looks like a decent plan to me.
I would like somebody to help me understand why binary research is better than researching at say, 60%.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Merum said:
The reason is due by the multipliers (libraries, universities, etc.).
if a city produces commerce for, say 10G, then science at 100% is 10*1.25 if you got a library. Rounded, it gives 13.
If you go at 60% you got: 10*.6=6*1.25=7.5, rounded 8
for ten turns this way, you got 80 beakers
with binary, you got 0*4+13*6=78
but if you go at 4, 10*.4*1.25=5 (50 in 10 turns)
so, after 10 turns: 0*6+13*4=52
The broblem is that the round often is down.
Probably in Warlords this question is out, it uses 2 decimals.
Anyway, in the saved turn we have: 71 science at 100%
38 at 50% (-5) and 30 at 40% (+2)
This means 355 for 5 turns, against 380-50=330 for 10 turns@ 50%, or 300+20=320 @40%
I hope to have explained, but there should be some thread about this.
Your idea about Madrid first catch me
: We can bring a stack in the rice E of Barcelona (hoping does not expand its borders), then DoW.Of course we'll need more units to protect our cities, but less than we'll need for build 2 stacks.
Last but not least, Izzy has no resoruces in sight, so we'll cut off horses and eventually metals we can't see but she can have. And representation will be highly anticipated.
I vote YES, let's see what other people think about, and define the minimum amount of units needed.
IMO: 3 axes, 3 swords, 1 archer, 1 spear + the units we'll let home.
See nothing from Perugia, i'll wait 'til 09.00PM GMT (11.00PM here)
Attacking Madrid first is okay with me. Should be exciting. That must be where she's getting the horses for the chariot I saw in my turnset, as I don't think there are horses elsewhere. It'd be nice to cut those off from the rest of her cities. Has she built any metal units anywhere? If so, that would have to be coming from Madrid as well.
Perugia
Prince
I'm all for Madrid first but before we make peace we need to be careful to capture a trade route back to our own cities so that we can share resources via a network that Izzy cannot break due to culture. This will probably simply be the east coast of our continent through which Madrid, Seville and Tokyo are connected but we will also need Barcelona or the route will be blocked at the straits isthmus S of Madrid.
On a related matter, the only downside of capturing Madid first is that it is unlikely to benefit from Osaka's sheep, gold and gems and so might starve a bit more than if we captured Seville and Barcelona first.
edit The suggested SoD to attack Madrid is about right Let's hope Madrid is not on a hill if it is we will need to take some more of our axes along. Our second spear should shadow the chariot that is visible. Hopefully it can set up a road block on a hill or in a forest. Building the swords will be the limit but the third can be pop rushed using Osaka's unhappy citizens.
We will need to start 2 tiles further back from the rice E of Barce as Izzies borders have expanded. Therefore as our stack passes Barcelona we might consider the alternative of capturing it first if we find it lightly defended. If it will damage our stack too much we just head on by.
I saw the chariot too. In fact its visible in the save!
I have not seen any metal units so doubt she has them. Therefore we might be better giving some of our units cover instead of CR1 (+25% vs archers rather than +20% vs any defender). CR1 will not help in defense but cover will help when she sends her units to retake Madrid as Merum suggests. We can leave the decision until later as CR1 does not need to be applied until the moment we attack.
I think upgrading warriors is bad better to pop rush the last unit in Osaka. I also agree that pop rushing should mostly be done only when there are 2+ unhappy citizens that can be used up - these citizens are then replaced in the 15 turns it takes for the unhappiness hit to wear off.
OK to recall the Axes in the field.
The worker at S&T could mine the stone before being disbanded. This will act as a decoy for any barbs that approach and might otherwise pillage the cow pasture. This will give us some warning.
BLumbuz explained why binary research is better because of rounding down. It has a second benefit in that you don't actually commit any beakers at the start which allows you to defer the choice of tech until later giving more flexibility.
There's not much harm in delaying CoL for a turn or two if we want to research one of Izzies cheap techs as suggested bu BLumbuz. We won't benefit from the +1 trade route until we have Spanish cities re-connected to our trade network through conquest. We won't build any markets on the Spanish continent until the war is over. Kyoto has such a poor hammer rate that most of the hammers will have to come from pop rushing so we just need to grow it to the starvation limit.
Our vice-captain published the turn order so I'll not repeat it.
Good luck BLumbuz and thanks for waiting for my input.
On a related matter, the only downside of capturing Madid first is that it is unlikely to benefit from Osaka's sheep, gold and gems and so might starve a bit more than if we captured Seville and Barcelona first.
edit The suggested SoD to attack Madrid is about right Let's hope Madrid is not on a hill if it is we will need to take some more of our axes along. Our second spear should shadow the chariot that is visible. Hopefully it can set up a road block on a hill or in a forest. Building the swords will be the limit but the third can be pop rushed using Osaka's unhappy citizens.
We will need to start 2 tiles further back from the rice E of Barce as Izzies borders have expanded. Therefore as our stack passes Barcelona we might consider the alternative of capturing it first if we find it lightly defended. If it will damage our stack too much we just head on by.
I saw the chariot too. In fact its visible in the save!
I have not seen any metal units so doubt she has them. Therefore we might be better giving some of our units cover instead of CR1 (+25% vs archers rather than +20% vs any defender). CR1 will not help in defense but cover will help when she sends her units to retake Madrid as Merum suggests. We can leave the decision until later as CR1 does not need to be applied until the moment we attack.
I think upgrading warriors is bad better to pop rush the last unit in Osaka. I also agree that pop rushing should mostly be done only when there are 2+ unhappy citizens that can be used up - these citizens are then replaced in the 15 turns it takes for the unhappiness hit to wear off.
OK to recall the Axes in the field.
The worker at S&T could mine the stone before being disbanded. This will act as a decoy for any barbs that approach and might otherwise pillage the cow pasture. This will give us some warning.
BLumbuz explained why binary research is better because of rounding down. It has a second benefit in that you don't actually commit any beakers at the start which allows you to defer the choice of tech until later giving more flexibility.
There's not much harm in delaying CoL for a turn or two if we want to research one of Izzies cheap techs as suggested bu BLumbuz. We won't benefit from the +1 trade route until we have Spanish cities re-connected to our trade network through conquest. We won't build any markets on the Spanish continent until the war is over. Kyoto has such a poor hammer rate that most of the hammers will have to come from pop rushing so we just need to grow it to the starvation limit.
Our vice-captain published the turn order so I'll not repeat it.
Good luck BLumbuz and thanks for waiting for my input.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
It's very late, I post this and edit tomorrow.
IT
move all axes to N, the new one to S
Start res. on Mysticism (2 T)
t01-250
Archers ptomoted: Ippon to drill 1+2 > mine, Kasuya CG1 > Tokyo
Axes on their path
Iron mined, stagnated Osaka 12H
Moses BIAFAL
Myst, learned, restart Currency
t02-235
Tokyo size 3, stagnated (stone, copper + fish) 9H
Kyoto works 4 seafoods, grow in 3 (i wish an archer for S&T + a WB ASAP)
Barb axe beelining to Toledo
t03-220
Tokyo: Spear due in 1t (1H) switch to axe
barb archer near Aryan
I avoid to promote new units
t04-205
Cows hooked, Iron hooked
t05-190
S&T size 4, asks for protection
Kyoto size 7, back to 2 scientists
Karate (axe) prom to cover, to face an archer
t06-175
Karate wins (defending)
Queued archer>WB>LH in Kyoto, whip 2 people (tired to see angry citizens)
worker in stone island, galley ready to ferry our new archer
1st half-road completed (1t), 2nd started (2t)
Toledo down to size 2 (?)
t07-160
changed the queue in Kyoto, LH in 1t, archer ferry to S&T
Mahavira BIAFAL
stopped research, 51 in bank, + 16/t now
pop 19 - units 19 - units cost 4
t08-145
Christianity has been founded in TOLEDO!!!, borders at fat cross, now ... at least some fogbust
Isabella converts, and adopt Theocracy (a bit aggressive, she isn't?) Police state + Theocracy
... better go fast, pity we own few units, for now
Kyoto now works the crabs, to delay growth - WB in 21, end angry for whip in 13
LH completed in S&T, started library, Archer in S&T now
2nd half road completed, start road 1NE Osaka
t09-130
city maintenance = 30
Kyoto - 1
S&T - 2
Osaka -16 !!!
Tokyo -11
This beginning is worsted than on Deity
t10-115
2 archers from S, 1 for O., 1 for T.
t11-100
archers closer now, 1 in oasis, damn him ... hold
useless road in stone island completed, worker to fogbust
t12- 85
damn archer in half mine, now, moved some troops, work oasis again
stone (Tokyo) roaded in 1t, thanx Izzy
t13- 70
Ippon (seriously damaged) and Jigoro (full) defend and won
started a road NE second half road (now road)
t14- 55
Currency learned, no benefits (for now)
CoL is due in 9, but we got 7 in bank, so set to 0
Spanish galley with Archer+Settler NE Tokyo
t15- 40
Christianity has spread in Osaka ... of course I do not convert in my last turn
Galley landed archer+settler 1N wheat, E Tokyo ... bleahh
last turn, not completed (25 BC)
Santiago founded ... now we know which will be Spain last city
we got 5 turns left in Kyoyo for cruel oppression
S&T will grow in 3t
I'd like to know where Izzy sent the free missionary: we haven't OB, and I did NOT see a galley to ferry him
the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/Fifth_Element_SG002_BC0025_01.Civ4SavedGame
IT
move all axes to N, the new one to S
Start res. on Mysticism (2 T)
t01-250
Archers ptomoted: Ippon to drill 1+2 > mine, Kasuya CG1 > Tokyo
Axes on their path
Iron mined, stagnated Osaka 12H
Moses BIAFAL
Myst, learned, restart Currency
t02-235
Tokyo size 3, stagnated (stone, copper + fish) 9H
Kyoto works 4 seafoods, grow in 3 (i wish an archer for S&T + a WB ASAP)
Barb axe beelining to Toledo
t03-220
Tokyo: Spear due in 1t (1H) switch to axe
barb archer near Aryan
I avoid to promote new units
t04-205
Cows hooked, Iron hooked
t05-190
S&T size 4, asks for protection
Kyoto size 7, back to 2 scientists
Karate (axe) prom to cover, to face an archer
t06-175
Karate wins (defending)
Queued archer>WB>LH in Kyoto, whip 2 people (tired to see angry citizens)
worker in stone island, galley ready to ferry our new archer
1st half-road completed (1t), 2nd started (2t)
Toledo down to size 2 (?)
t07-160
changed the queue in Kyoto, LH in 1t, archer ferry to S&T
Mahavira BIAFAL
stopped research, 51 in bank, + 16/t now
pop 19 - units 19 - units cost 4
t08-145
Christianity has been founded in TOLEDO!!!, borders at fat cross, now ... at least some fogbust
Isabella converts, and adopt Theocracy (a bit aggressive, she isn't?) Police state + Theocracy
... better go fast, pity we own few units, for now
Kyoto now works the crabs, to delay growth - WB in 21, end angry for whip in 13
LH completed in S&T, started library, Archer in S&T now
2nd half road completed, start road 1NE Osaka
t09-130
city maintenance = 30
Kyoto - 1
S&T - 2
Osaka -16 !!!
Tokyo -11
This beginning is worsted than on Deity
t10-115
2 archers from S, 1 for O., 1 for T.
t11-100
archers closer now, 1 in oasis, damn him ... hold
useless road in stone island completed, worker to fogbust
t12- 85
damn archer in half mine, now, moved some troops, work oasis again
stone (Tokyo) roaded in 1t, thanx Izzy
t13- 70
Ippon (seriously damaged) and Jigoro (full) defend and won
started a road NE second half road (now road)
t14- 55
Currency learned, no benefits (for now)
CoL is due in 9, but we got 7 in bank, so set to 0
Spanish galley with Archer+Settler NE Tokyo
t15- 40
Christianity has spread in Osaka ... of course I do not convert in my last turn
Galley landed archer+settler 1N wheat, E Tokyo ... bleahh
last turn, not completed (25 BC)
Santiago founded ... now we know which will be Spain last city
we got 5 turns left in Kyoyo for cruel oppression
S&T will grow in 3t
I'd like to know where Izzy sent the free missionary: we haven't OB, and I did NOT see a galley to ferry him
the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/Fifth_Element_SG002_BC0025_01.Civ4SavedGame
Spoiler :
Nice turnset Blubmuz. The maintenance is painful...but not much we can do about it until we have our army, as that is first priority. Then we can start building either courthouses or a palace. We may want to go ahead and move the palace to Osaka. It will be awesome with Bureaucracy, and CS is in our future.
I suggest we convert to Christianity. First, it will give us another happy face in Osaka (which currently hosts 1 unhappy citizen). Second, it will buddy us up with Izzy, and maybe she'll give us open borders. If she does, we can do some scouting of Madrid. We also can move a stack to the current free tile on the isthmus S of Madrid. That tile will not be within her cultural boundaries when Barcelona pops its borders, and we might be able to have the stack there when we declare war. This will get us closer to Madrid if we still want to go there first.
Are we planning to have Toyota continue to road N? If so, I'd road from the hill just N of Toyota N 1 tile and then NE. This should keep the road outside Izzy's cultural boundaries when Barcelona's borders expand.
Should we build a market next in Kyoto? That will help with some with our financial woes.
This is looking beautiful. Good job Blubmuz!
I suggest we convert to Christianity. First, it will give us another happy face in Osaka (which currently hosts 1 unhappy citizen). Second, it will buddy us up with Izzy, and maybe she'll give us open borders. If she does, we can do some scouting of Madrid. We also can move a stack to the current free tile on the isthmus S of Madrid. That tile will not be within her cultural boundaries when Barcelona pops its borders, and we might be able to have the stack there when we declare war. This will get us closer to Madrid if we still want to go there first.
Are we planning to have Toyota continue to road N? If so, I'd road from the hill just N of Toyota N 1 tile and then NE. This should keep the road outside Izzy's cultural boundaries when Barcelona's borders expand.
Should we build a market next in Kyoto? That will help with some with our financial woes.
This is looking beautiful. Good job Blubmuz!
Perugia
Prince
A brilliant turnset. It was worth pop rushing the archer in Kyoto as it got the defender to S&T quicker.
I agree we should convert to Christianity - the removal of the unhappy citizen in Osaka will remove stagnation, Brian is also right in that Chrisitianity should enable us to get OB with Izzy to scout out Madrid. We might even be able to do some selected tech trading.
Building the road to avoid Barcelona's culture expansion is another good idea. You are on good form today Brian!
I agree we should convert to Christianity - the removal of the unhappy citizen in Osaka will remove stagnation, Brian is also right in that Chrisitianity should enable us to get OB with Izzy to scout out Madrid. We might even be able to do some selected tech trading.
Building the road to avoid Barcelona's culture expansion is another good idea. You are on good form today Brian!
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I continue here my end turn post:
I made 2 mistakes:
1) I forget to switch production from sword to axe in O. to save some turn of maintenance (i was distracted by the newly founded religion)
2) probably i didn't used in good way the whip in K. (i rarely whip in my core cities, usually I use it in new conquered ones, so i'm not so expert)
Probably as a team we made the mistake to build the LH before the library in S&T, anyway this decision was taken time ago, and there's no point to complain now
I suppose that we all agree to whip the library in S&T ASAP
Seeing the situation, i definitely vote to KILL the worker, we'll save maintenance and the galley 1E of stone island can fogbust. Please, keep it there.
To sustain this, the only units that Kyoto can easily build are settlers and workers, so better kill him.
I agree with Brian, we can convert (1 turn anarchy), we'll gain an happy face in O., that MUST keep stagnating, working one of the plain hills.
Converting will let us to sign OB with Izzy (90% chance), improving our commerce and perhaps exchange some techs before war.
Lookin' at the graphs we are almost equal to Izzy for GNP, power and hammers.
Given we don't see many units around, probably Madrid is well defended.
I did not post SS this time, the knowledge of the land is not improved, for anything else there's the save.
All the strategies are delineated, we need only to define some minor activity.
I didn't too much in this last TS, just ordinary maintenance, but it's probably Doom Train that will start the war around his 10th turn or so.
In any case, good luck DT, honour your nick as you already did.
Hi Perugia, thanx, I started write this before your post, we agree on everything
I made 2 mistakes:
1) I forget to switch production from sword to axe in O. to save some turn of maintenance (i was distracted by the newly founded religion)
2) probably i didn't used in good way the whip in K. (i rarely whip in my core cities, usually I use it in new conquered ones, so i'm not so expert)
Probably as a team we made the mistake to build the LH before the library in S&T, anyway this decision was taken time ago, and there's no point to complain now
I suppose that we all agree to whip the library in S&T ASAP
Seeing the situation, i definitely vote to KILL the worker, we'll save maintenance and the galley 1E of stone island can fogbust. Please, keep it there.
To sustain this, the only units that Kyoto can easily build are settlers and workers, so better kill him.
I agree with Brian, we can convert (1 turn anarchy), we'll gain an happy face in O., that MUST keep stagnating, working one of the plain hills.
Converting will let us to sign OB with Izzy (90% chance), improving our commerce and perhaps exchange some techs before war.
Lookin' at the graphs we are almost equal to Izzy for GNP, power and hammers.
Given we don't see many units around, probably Madrid is well defended.
I did not post SS this time, the knowledge of the land is not improved, for anything else there's the save.
All the strategies are delineated, we need only to define some minor activity.
I didn't too much in this last TS, just ordinary maintenance, but it's probably Doom Train that will start the war around his 10th turn or so.
In any case, good luck DT, honour your nick as you already did.
Hi Perugia, thanx, I started write this before your post, we agree on everything
Doom Train
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
- Messages
- 204
Got the save...
Nice turnset Blubmuz.
Checklist for me:
1- Prepare 2 stacks for war
2- Convert to Christianity
3- Sign OB with izzy
4- Trade techs
5- Scout Madrid
I ll update you when Madrid is scouted...
Nice turnset Blubmuz.
Checklist for me:
1- Prepare 2 stacks for war
2- Convert to Christianity
3- Sign OB with izzy
4- Trade techs
5- Scout Madrid
I ll update you when Madrid is scouted...
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
some adjustement to your check list (i hope you all agree):
1) convert in the very first turn, then stagnate Osaka working the river plains-hill, then OB (hope Izzy agrees)
2) not 2, but 1 stack: 3 swords, 6 axes, 1 archer (the one near Barcelona, after he has scouted Madrid) and 1 spear STACKED, in civ3 style (SoD).
3) train a 3rd spear in Osaka, probably we'll see more chariots.
4) not many more units needed, maybe 2 or 3.
Hoping all will go as i presume, you will be ready in 6/8 turns
5) don't turn on research, we risk bankrupt meanwhile we'll conquer new cities.
6) in new cities start libraries, and whip if you can
7) keep an eye in S&T, to whip the library ASAP.
8) when you stop to build units, start the Palace in Osaka, we can't wait for CH/FP (bankrupt behind the corner).
9) don't forget the road 2N of Toyota, it's important to save moves (another Brian's good point)
I think you'll can't do more in your turns, good luck again, be the Doom of Spain.
And, yes, try to demand something right before you declare. Brian has a good point, i usually do this.
Congrats to Merum, he was the first to outline this strategy.
1) convert in the very first turn, then stagnate Osaka working the river plains-hill, then OB (hope Izzy agrees)
2) not 2, but 1 stack: 3 swords, 6 axes, 1 archer (the one near Barcelona, after he has scouted Madrid) and 1 spear STACKED, in civ3 style (SoD).
3) train a 3rd spear in Osaka, probably we'll see more chariots.
4) not many more units needed, maybe 2 or 3.
Hoping all will go as i presume, you will be ready in 6/8 turns
5) don't turn on research, we risk bankrupt meanwhile we'll conquer new cities.
6) in new cities start libraries, and whip if you can
7) keep an eye in S&T, to whip the library ASAP.
8) when you stop to build units, start the Palace in Osaka, we can't wait for CH/FP (bankrupt behind the corner).
9) don't forget the road 2N of Toyota, it's important to save moves (another Brian's good point)
I think you'll can't do more in your turns, good luck again, be the Doom of Spain.
And, yes, try to demand something right before you declare. Brian has a good point, i usually do this.
Congrats to Merum, he was the first to outline this strategy.
Perugia
Prince
All
Great teamwork folks. We now have a coherent plan coalescing here.
Doom Train
I support your plan as amended by BLumbuz & BrianS. We want one megastack in the North with the remaining stuff defending home against Izzy and the barbs. Don't forget us three also recommend you kill the worker on Stone Island to save on unit costs.
I recommend we include the medic warrior Jigoro in the mega stack. The other warriors can stay inside our borders (or close by on fog busting) so they can be upgraded as a last resort.
Having thought some more it's not likely Izzy will trade as she will have a monopoly on all techs because no other Civs are known. The idea of asking for tribute intrigues me, I've never had much success with this - how much should we ask for 40, 80, 120?
Re: Whipping the library in S&T asap as proposed by BLumbuz. Having a library would be good as we would be able to run some scientists instead of working coast to effectively convert 2 food into 4 beakers while we are in Representation thanks to the Pyramids. A bit of culture can't do any harm either.
Just make sure the whip removes at most one happy citizen plus any number of unhappy ones or we won't have enough citizens to use up our remaining happiness.
I don't have any such reservations in captured spanish cities where we do want to whip as soon as we can to remove Spaniards and start swinging culture our way and expanding borders. Also we'll get better results from chopping once our culture reaches 100 and there are loads of forests at a distance of 3 from the cities.
Great teamwork folks. We now have a coherent plan coalescing here.
Doom Train
I support your plan as amended by BLumbuz & BrianS. We want one megastack in the North with the remaining stuff defending home against Izzy and the barbs. Don't forget us three also recommend you kill the worker on Stone Island to save on unit costs.
I recommend we include the medic warrior Jigoro in the mega stack. The other warriors can stay inside our borders (or close by on fog busting) so they can be upgraded as a last resort.
Having thought some more it's not likely Izzy will trade as she will have a monopoly on all techs because no other Civs are known. The idea of asking for tribute intrigues me, I've never had much success with this - how much should we ask for 40, 80, 120?
Re: Whipping the library in S&T asap as proposed by BLumbuz. Having a library would be good as we would be able to run some scientists instead of working coast to effectively convert 2 food into 4 beakers while we are in Representation thanks to the Pyramids. A bit of culture can't do any harm either.
Just make sure the whip removes at most one happy citizen plus any number of unhappy ones or we won't have enough citizens to use up our remaining happiness.
I don't have any such reservations in captured spanish cities where we do want to whip as soon as we can to remove Spaniards and start swinging culture our way and expanding borders. Also we'll get better results from chopping once our culture reaches 100 and there are loads of forests at a distance of 3 from the cities.
Perugia
Prince
One more thing of an administrative nature. Is everyone happy with 15 turns during war time. This can get a bit much and we could revert to 10 turns which would give more of us a chance at Izzy bashing .
Please vote now so we can advise Doom Train when the scouting report is received from Madrid.
.Please vote now so we can advise Doom Train when the scouting report is received from Madrid.
Spoiler Turn Order :
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
@Perugia
10 turns during war time could be fun, so i vote YES!!!
(otherwise i risk to lose the fun, since i'm the last one now)
of course i'll don't cry if this will not the case.
How much can we demand? all her money, if she refuse, we'll try to lower the demand, until she gave something ... if she totally refuse, it will be just a delay, conquering her cities we'll have her money (if I'm not wrong).
I completely forget the medic warrior, anyway we can promote M1 the spears.
10 turns during war time could be fun, so i vote YES!!!
(otherwise i risk to lose the fun, since i'm the last one now)
of course i'll don't cry if this will not the case.
How much can we demand? all her money, if she refuse, we'll try to lower the demand, until she gave something ... if she totally refuse, it will be just a delay, conquering her cities we'll have her money (if I'm not wrong).
I completely forget the medic warrior, anyway we can promote M1 the spears.
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