SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

Great job Lexad! The Oracle in Osaka will be contributing its 2 GPP towards a quicker great person. How are we going to expand the borders in Akotsgrad? Has our religion spread there already? (cannot look at the save atm)

Edit: Oh, I overlooked the fact you're building the Palace in Akotsgrad. Just as well, because we aren't now going to get early Civil Service.
 
We were deliberately avoiding CS as it unlocks Paper which will ruin our plans of getting Compass, Optics and Astronomy by GS.
As this in non-reload game, I'm somewhat uneasy to risk getting GPriest while we need 3 more GS. Also Osaka has little spare citizens for library. We should discuss our GPP strat in more detail.
 
Lexad said:
We were deliberately avoiding CS as it unlocks Paper which will ruin our plans of getting Compass, Optics and Astronomy by GS.

Yes, akots and I were discussing it a little back. The relative benefits of research-by-GS versus the early Bureaucracy bonus to research in commerce-rich Osaka are not clear-cut; still I agree the GS path is probably faster.

As this in non-reload game, I'm somewhat uneasy to risk getting GPriest while we need 3 more GS. Also Osaka has little spare citizens for library. We should discuss our GPP strat in more detail.
Let's discuss it! I think we already are in the position to put together a plan for the deployment of our libraries.

Osaka will get more population capacity after we connect the gems. Food isn't a big problem with all those floodplains. Of course it would've been better if the Palace had been built in Osaka for the extra +1 happiness.

Getting a GPriest is not a bad thing. If I remember correctly, he can be used towards CoL or CS.
 
Balbes said:
Osaka will get more population capacity after we connect the gems. Food isn't a big problem with all those floodplains. Of course it would've been better if the Palace had been built in Osaka for the extra +1 happiness.

Osaka is already connected to riverside gems, second time doesn't count. I see the problem not only in happiness here, but in low food growth. Buying food for hammers or coins provides uneasy exchange ratios. Maybe we should leave Osaka as it is and focus GPP in a couple of other cities, like Obormotgrad and Balbesgrad. However, if while researching we find ourselves with no good production for Osaka, moving poeple from mine to rice would be a good option and will allow the city to grow.

Balbes said:
Getting a GPriest is not a bad thing. If I remember correctly, he can be used towards CoL or CS.
Yes, luckily, we can utilise him too, but GS give more lightulbs than other GP when discovering science. Still, he won't be a waste, just worse than GS would have been.
 
Lexad said:
Osaka is already connected to riverside gems, second time doesn't count.
Indeed it is. I really should have the save at hand while planning.

By the way we also can convert to Hindiusm if needed.

Maybe we should leave Osaka as it is and focus GPP in a couple of other cities,
Okay, how many libraries do we want? 2 more seems to be the number? Do we need them ASAP or they can be comfortably delayed?
 
Seems fine without looking at the save, you did what had to be done.

We need to beef up on military front now. While Palace is being chopped there is no point in researching actively because of high maintenance costs. So, Osaka can start on more serious stuff. Probably swords with some axes here and there. We might also consider researching horseback riding in the future and build a few horse archers or we might be able to trade for it with another continent where all the AIs apparently are waiting to be punished for their cruel murder and kidnapping of our infamous Shogun.

We should be able to research CoL and may be even Alphabet while waiting for the scientists to pop. Library in Osaka would not hurt apparently just because it would still have substantial bonus to research from gems and gold. However, military might be top priority and killing Spain as task number one at hand. She must not be allowed to expand and build up safely. Also, we can gain a few workers from Isabella and some gold from razed cities. I'm not sure about Mardid, but those which she built to the north of Osaka are really awful and badly located. It might be also a good idea to go after barbarian cities then and raze/capture them depending on circumstances and their exact location. On the other hand, if we go for barbarians first and then only for Spain, we get more promoted units which would be able to farm experience on barbarians first (up to exp 10) and then from that go for Spain with really seasoned troops. There might be a problem with this however, since we don't want to lose these seasoned troops against longbowmen.
 
While waiting for scientists we also need Machinery, Calendar and, I think, COnstruction. Those all are costly techs as well as mentioned CoL and CS. We will still need good research base, that is where universal cities with libraries for research and GPP will help us. I think Akotsgrad, Obormotgrad, Balbesgrad and Lexadgrad all can run this mode, as well as Madrid and, maybe, city west of Obormotgrad which will have fish and iron - if we found it. The primary source of hammers for libraries will be chopping. I think we need two as soon as possible, esp. in Obormotgrad, the rest could wait a bit.

As for happiness in Osaka, Hinduism is one good proposal, we also can build temple. Unfortunately, see no plantation resources save sugar :(
 
Well done Lexad! :goodjob:

Why you have builded Akotsgrad on one tile to the south?
What benefit will give us Obormotgrad in this point?

Сan I give cities normal Japanese names?

I examine idea of construction of a palace in Osaka!?
Edit: And chop barraks and swords in Akotsgrad!
There can be we can save the maintenance in the future.

I shall play in the evening on Sunday!!!
 
akots said:
However, military might be top priority and killing Spain as task number one at hand. She must not be allowed to expand and build up safely. Also, we can gain a few workers from Isabella and some gold from razed cities.
It appears IL2T is going to have his hands full with the completion of the Palace and improvement of the land around the new cities, but Osaka should probably begin working on our army. Do we want a granary there first?

I'm not sure about Mardid, but those which she built to the north of Osaka are really awful and badly located.

Do you think there are better spots up there in the jungle, or that it should be left unsettled?
 
IL2T said:
Why you have builded Akotsgrad on one tile to the south?

It exchanges the desert hill for a plains hill.
More food, but the plains hill could be worked by a future city in the south, while we completely lose the use of the desert hill.
We're unlikely to feel any significiant impact of this in the span of this game.

What benefit will give us Obormotgrad in this point?

Lots of food, so workers/settlers/library.
It also has several hills in its radius, and can serve as a not-so-hopeless production city.

Сan I give cities normal Japanese names?

The next two city names for Japan are Tokyo and Edo.
Curiously, in fact both denote the same city (same as St.Petersburg and Leningrad).
So renaming them back to Tokyo and Edo will fit their nature of being really a single city settled in two parts.
 
IL2T said:
Why you have builded Akotsgrad on one tile to the south?
- to get sheep, horse and 3 minable hills for long-run high-production steady state of the city.

IL2T said:
What benefit will give us Obormotgrad in this point?
- fast growing city with 2 food recources, builder of settlers and workers, research city with chopped library and high-production city with 3 hills once we enter warbuilder mode.

IL2T said:
I examine idea of construction of a palace in Osaka!?
- this can be discussed as it has several upsides. But thorough analysis is required, and there's littl forestr left.

IL2T said:
I shall play in the evening on Sunday!!!
- this will give plenty discussion opportunities.

Side note - maybe late, but I want to mention that Henge was built during my turn, and Oracle is usually competing with it for the first wonder built, losing not much, so I think I built it on time.:p
 
Balbes said:
It exchanges the desert hill for a plains hill.
More food, but the plains hill could be worked by a future city in the south, while we completely lose the use of the desert hill.
Actually, grass hill. In the south ther's tundra and ocean, so don't worry, we've lost no good city location.
 
It may be a good idea. Isabella must be assimilated. She seems to have run out of decent new city locations too.
 
It seems that Dynamic is already gone. Let's wait a bit more and then either Obormot or CB can play. IIRC, Obormot is also out of civ atm, so this might leave the game to CB in the near future.

I'll be travelling to Moscow and will have only occasional dial-up access there at night and not every day. Also, I would have to try to install Civ4 on my PC there and I'm not sure it would work normally. So, I might need a skip or two as well. Here is the updated roster:

Dynamic - might need a skip or two
CB - also ready
Obormot - might need a skip till the end of August
Psitsa
akots - might need a skip or two
Balbes
Lexad
IL2T - UP, will play on Sunday
 
Well, the thread has been silent for so long some teams might think we've already won :D

The proposals from CFR:

If we build palace with 1 chop in Osaka (proposed by Il2T, I agree, Obormot also supports the location):
Worker 2 chops forest 2E (2+5, 7) giving 44 hammers. 196 hammers left = (8, 15) turns with MM of sheep to wood for 1 turn (should be done before finishing chopping).

Worker 1 improves horses (6) and goes for chopping (6, 12). Meanwhile the production of Akotsgrad is 5*3+7*5 = 50 hammers. Thus, if we go for obelisk (Obormot's variant), it is produced without chop in 11 turns.
If we go for library (my variant) and bring worker 2 for another chop (2+5, 14) this gives 88 hammers from chops + 50 + 5*2 = 148 hammers > 135 required for library.
Summary – obelisk in 11 turns and 0 chops, library in 14 turns and 2 chops. I’d rather go for library. It also allows us to start improving (and using) sheep 15 – up(15/2) – (14-11) = 4 turns earlier. But obelisk saves worker moves for chopping, so they might as well send one to improve Obormotgrad. The decision is to be made by IL2T with Team's assistance.

Technology: next GS (for Optics) will arrive in 44 turns – we have time to learn Sailing and Machinery by then and some time left to learn like part of CoL. Learning CoL first would slow down obtaining Optics , and I think getting Optics is crucial for our strategy and development and should come first, so propose Sailing – (Compass by GS) – Machinery – CoL. As Obormot said, we can expect to trade for Calendar and later – Construction with newly discovered civs (these techs are usually on primary development routes).

We need more workers, at least 1. Maybe chop in Akotsgrad.

Build military.
 
Lexad said:
If we build palace with 1 chop in Osaka (proposed by Il2T, I agree, Obormot also supports the location):
All right, let's build it there.

Summary – obelisk in 11 turns and 0 chops, library in 14 turns and 2 chops. I’d rather go for library. It also allows us to start improving (and using) sheep 15 – up(15/2) – (14-11) = 4 turns earlier. But obelisk saves worker moves for chopping, so they might as well send one to improve Obormotgrad. The decision is to be made by IL2T with Team's assistance.
All we really need in Akotsgrad is one border expansion. I'd choose the obelisk there. It's much cheaper than the library, and should religion spread there while we're building it, we can just abandon it. With the library, losing the hammers from a chopped forest would be much more painful. Well, we wouldn't really lose them as we'd get a library; but Akotsgrad is supposed to be a production city, with citizens working mined hills, not chilling out in the library.

We need more workers, at least 1. Maybe chop in Akotsgrad.
Obormotgrad will be a super worker producer when its two food resources have been improved. This is the reason we settled it.
 
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