SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

[Cat Behemoth]

Can you explain the strong points of this positioning?

We need metal for our military. If we would have not iron - then we have to go for one of copper. But now we had it and IMHO will be better to hook up more recources. Also this city is closer, productive and it's much more easy to protect both from barbarians. Also there are much forest to chop. And since it closer to Osaka it can be found faster (if we need speed).

What about Oracle - I have no preference where it to be build. But I think Palace is absolutely needed in Osaka since this city seems to be abuot geographical center of this continent. May be it's worth to immediately start building Oracle in new city while Osaka produce new settler for palace. ?

 

[Lexad]

Sorry guys, I'm so f...ing drunk. Please, take my sober arguments for OCC from CFR and I hope I live till morning to read yours. "But not hurry!" (c)

 

[Balbes]

CB: Are you sure you mean the spot 1W of the horses? It doesn't seem to cover much in the way of resources or forests to me. Maybe you really meant to write "1E"?

 

[Lexad]

OK, I've pulled my guts together, so I want to remind you that war is an option. Start producing swords ASAP, and with ~5 starting swords and some reinforcements afterwards we can destroy Spain in its expansion-settlerbuild-mode.
If we still decide to found city right away and waste money, I'd go for something near horses, not south spot - not enough wood. South is for later.

Techs: I support Priest-Pottery-Maths for starting Oracle ASAP and getting MetalCasting from it. If we build second city, chop obelisk and palace in it, but top priority to Oracle - noone can beat us to palace.

We need to make a strategic decision, how many cities to build before war with Spain.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

CB: Are you sure you mean the spot 1W of the horses? It doesn't seem to cover much in the way of resources or forests to me. Maybe you really meant to write "1E"?

I just miss west and east. Sometimes it happens with me. Of course 1E... Take one more look - 1 SE is some more likely for me.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

Techs: I support Priest-Pottery-Maths for starting Oracle ASAP

Agree. May be swap Pottery and Math. So may be the last chopping will bring us more hammers.

What about war.... Hmmmmm.... Such pacifist as me...... I think we have to chop Palace first because in my opinion both current visible spanish cities must be destroyed (here is my pacifism) - so they aren't help us to avoid building one more settler.

 

[Balbes]

A summary of Obormot's peaceful expansion plan:

Build another settler (possibly accelerated by chops), and drop two cities simultaneously. 1E of horses and 1S of wheat. The moment they're built, start on the Palace in Osaka. The Oracle in that of two new cities which has got more forests.

Additional troops and workers built as necessary.

Did I get everything right?

 

[Cat Behemoth]

So looks like this game is the Obormot's game I'm not completely against this plan. Just one note - I fear we can loose Oracle in this case. It's rather usual thing when AI bulds it about 1200-1300 BC on Monarch. A bit risky and i don't know if we can afford it.

 

[Balbes]

Yes, one of the weakest points of this plan is the cities won't get built till after 1000BC, and the Oracle 700BC. It's playing with fire.

Our city spots are much better than Isabella's. But will building our own cities - but later - give us a bigger boost that taking her cities - now?

Also everybody seems to have assumed we're going to need Astronomy. Is there any supporting evidence?

 

[Lexad]

If we build second city, chop obelisk and palace in it, but top priority to Oracle - noone can beat us to palace.

I'd rather start chopping Oracle ASAP. 3-4 extra turns for settler won't destroy our gameplay, but can be crucial for getting Oracle. A;so settler-building would prevent us from expanding Osaka to 5 and using all 4 mines and 1 pasture.

I might like more or less some variants, but let's accept the Bolshevik principle - all discussions on the development way are cut off after the decision, and then everybody fulfills the chosen plan.

So I see peace plan (found 2 cities) and war-plan, both involve chopping Oracle. I'm for war. Your sentiments, please.

 

[IL2T]

One thing about peace plan:
Palace have a high priority! We save the low maintenance and will have fast expansion!
Max Oracle effect is 1008 beakers (MC). In a present situation we cannot provide safe construction Oracle an any correct variant!

Summary:
-Oracle in Akotsgrad 1E from horse (4 turn later)

-Osaka worker -...(or nothing)-settler-...(or nothing)-palace

Tech:
priest-pottery-math

Worker action: improv horse - precop or chop Oracle

And some discusion about antibarbs defense line and tactics!???

 

[Balbes]

I've been thinking long and hard about the general strategic direction for this game. At the moment we have been getting more and more preoccupied with tasks immediately at hand - how to build the Oracle fast, how to move the Palace fast, and so forth.

I've realized we have no clear idea at all what to later. For us to win in the end, will we need powerful production above all else? Or will we need to cottage everything? Will we build many workers next? Or, instead, many settlers? Maybe just troops?

 

[akots]

Well, we need to get to Astronomy somehow. With Great People or otherwise, but it seems that Astronomy is required. Also, we need Samurai, probably catapults and may be knights. How we achieve this goal is not that important. We certainly can kill Spain any time we want. Lets focus on what is actually happening. Global ideas are good but not in this case. Just build a city, grab the horses, connect iron and your 10 turns will then end. We then can see how the situation develops and then can further discuss and decide on optimal course.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

I think that after connection of iron we have to build a couple or triple of axeman while Osaka will grow 5. Maybe at this time it will be good to finish farming of rice - settler will be built faster. And may be more forest will remain for palace.

 

[IL2T]

Well, we need to get to Astronomy somehow. With Great People or otherwise, but it seems that Astronomy is required. Also, we need Samurai, probably catapults and may be knights. How we achieve this goal is not that important. We certainly can kill Spain any time we want. Lets focus on what is actually happening. Global ideas are good but not in this case. Just build a city, grab the horses, connect iron and your 10 turns will then end. We then can see how the situation develops and then can further discuss and decide on optimal course.

I don't agree!
Now, it's necessary to make the key decision concerning Oracle!
When and where it will build!??? Or it we shall not build?

 

[IL2T]

Build another settler (possibly accelerated by chops), and drop two cities simultaneously. 1E of horses and 1S of wheat.

I believe, that the third city should be port!
Or the fourth?

 

[IL2T]

Balbes
When are you going to play?

 

[IL2T]

Antibarbs line defense

 

[Obormot]

A summary of Obormot's peaceful expansion plan:

Build another settler (possibly accelerated by chops), and drop two cities simultaneously. 1E of horses and 1S of wheat. The moment they're built, start on the Palace in Osaka. The Oracle in that of two new cities which has got more forests.

Additional troops and workers built as necessary.

Did I get everything right?

Balbes, I think you misunderstood my plan, I didn't say we should delay settling the second city. Actually I always said we should increase our hammer output rapidly. So let's settle it ASAP and don't wait for the second settler.

Osaka should grow to size 5 ASAP to get the hammers from the iron mine. Move citizens from the gold hill to oasis and to rice after rice is improved. Worker should improve rice and mine the iron, chopping should be done only after it grows to size5 and starts building 2nd settler. Let Osaka build barracks or granary while it grows. After that settler, we can start building Palace.

Since our worker will be busy improving Osaka and chopping, I think that the 2nd city should start building a worker immidiately that would improve the horses and chop Oracle (maybe math will be complete by that time).

 

[Lexad]

Rice for gold mine will give 1 hammer for settler for 7 coins - bad tradeoff. The time it takes to irrigate grassland is enough to chop 1,5 wood tiles, giving ~45 shields - it would take 45 turns of non-stop rise using and worker-settler building to compensate for lost worker-hours. We have more than enough chop-tasks on our hands for 2 cities, so let's just use oasis, build the mine and then accelerate settler, going for Oracle afterwards, if the general wish is delaying the wonder. This will give an exchange of slightly less than a hammer per coin (described at CFR). I'd still prefer chopping Oracle in Osaka, not other city, so that we can start it ASAP.