SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

[Obormot]

We cannot learn archery now, because we don't have hunting yet (I went Agriculture->AH route). Actually I think that archers are not that much better then warriors. Warriors begin at 2.2 strength for us vs. 3 for archers, but they cost 22 hammers instead of 37 and we can promote with cover or woodsman after only 2xp. Also having more cheap units removes more fog of war then having fewer more advanced units.

So I don't think we need to change our plans now, let us go for BW. It will allow chopping and it will reveal where copper is. We have time to produce 8 warriors before starting the settler without slowing growth and can produce more if that is absolutely essential. Even if we don't have copper, we can settle the horses/sheep site to the SE and produce chariots which are mobile and strong enough to kill warriors and archers.

Sailing is another matter, whether to research it or not and when to do it will depend on what our WB finds north of Kyoto.

 

[akots]

Well, archers have a nice hill and city defence bonus (if it comes to this, we are in trouble anyhow) as well and if there would be a lot of barbarians, they will rapidly promote as well. But going for horses is a good option. We then need another city in that area but this will probably ruin the economy completely as well as going for copper if copper is not in the radius of Osaka. So, actually, archery in this situation might allow us to keep better science rate. But do we need it? Or should we expand and build more cities in the near future? That is the main problem. Also, for 8 warriors, we would have to pay a considerable fee if we wish to keep 6 of them outside of the borders (2 gold per turn and 3-5 with scouting workboat).

 

[Balbes]

Do we need to discuss how to set up our defenses in some more detail? Most barbs will propably come from the south and from the east since Spain is quite close up north and there is a mountain ridge

Yes, with Isabella's new city settled there, most northern barbarians are likely to attack her. Your southern line looks good to me. In the north, I'd move the wounded warrior 1SW and the healthy one 1N. We can reinforce as needed with units built in Osaka. I agree that most of the fighting will probably be in the south.

Waiting until Bronze Working is discovered will allow us to make a better informed decision about Archery. We may not get Copper and we already know we have Horses.

 

[Dynamic]

We have highest Score and lowest Power. And Our Culture graph looks provoking...
I don't like Peanut not started yet, I hope they will not try to use this information...

 

[IL2T]

The unprotected directions of our antibarbs defense

In conditions of shortage of defenders some defenders should protect a zone (i.e. to change a position). I suggest to describe tactics of protection Osaka and improvements.

PS After 11 turn Osaka border will be expanded!

 

[Balbes]

We have highest Score and lowest Power. And Our Culture graph looks provoking...
I don't like Peanut not started yet, I hope they will not try to use this information...

Well they certainly can do just that. But most teams are already past our date, and if Peanut is the only other team to follow our path, that's perfect. Gives us more bragging rights when we beat them in the end

I'll post the updated plan for our defense a little later.

 

[akots]

For those, who are in doubt, CB is up. And might the all-knowing RNG Gods of the Game be with him during his turns.

 

[Balbes]

Ok here's the defense tactics proposal.

We fortify warriors in forests at spots D1-D4. Another warrior at D5 guards the city. It's a good idea to have more than one unit in the city at all times it can come under attack, so one unlucky combat doesn't mean game over.

There are "kill zones" around each of the warriors. Barbarians passing through these tiles (cyan dots) will hopefully attack our sentries.

(Yellow lines) are offensive movements, should the barbarians manage to break inside our perimeter. Hopefully we won't have to fight any offensive fights. If you do, be sure to have 2 units capable of attacking on the same turn, in case one is killed by the barb.

On a similar note, whatever you do, do not let the guards get attacked by 2 or more barbarians in a single turn. They can't handle that.

We don't have enough units for a full perimeter, so there will be a few leaky lines (red dots). If the barbs come in through there, guarding units will move to intercept (cyan lines). You need to come into contact with the barbarian unit and be in a forest yourself for the defensive bonus.

For example, for barbs coming in via the route by the fish, move one of the warriors out of Osaka towards the hill; see which forest the barb enters, and enter the other one.

No intercepts for the horse route; Osaka is going to have to take those attacks head-on.

After a fight, anything damaged below say 1.6 goes to Osaka to heal and is replaced by fresh units.

 

[akots]

Well, I think CB can handle raging barbarians. Regarding the scheme, in general, it is OK. However, it might be a good idea to leave a few warriors on some more remote locations like a forest hill between clams and wheat to prevent barbarian appearance there completely at least for as long as that warrior can survive. Also, forest south of southern sheep seems like a great senty point as well. Another forest, east of horses, also seems like a great location for a sentry as well since most of the attacker will be advancing across the river there which gives us a nice bonus.

Spawning of barbarians is easier to prevent than to fight them off. Actually, having a larger border is good on one side because this disperses more fog but is bad on the other since we are easier to spot and barbarians would be coming from various directions just because they can see us better.

The problem with all these locations is that sentries there have had to be positioned before the actual rush of barbarians start in anticipation for them. So, it seems that Obormot did not manage to sneak with sentries there which might still be OK. We just have to be very accurate. I would still wait for quite some time to discover Bronze Working. At least until the toughest part of the barbarian waves will get through. Even a single axeman can be lethal here for us.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

I'll play Saturday or Sunday.

Added: let's spend and waste a few time. May be Peanuts will think that we are already lost since no our new saves appear. New save will be a bit surprise for them.

 

[Balbes]

it might be a good idea to leave a few warriors on some more remote locations like a forest hill between clams and wheat to prevent barbarian appearance there completely at least for as long as that warrior can survive. Also, forest south of southern sheep.......The problem with all these locations is that sentries there have had to be positioned before the actual rush of barbarians start in anticipation for them. So, it seems that Obormot did not manage to sneak with sentries there which might still be OK.

We unfortunately do not have enough units to man a longer perimeter. The widest hole between any two sentries must not exceed 2 tiles, so that no barbarians can filter through without touching one of the warriors (3 tiles if the terrain is favorable for intercepting, with enough forests). But an even bigger problem is that we'd be far from the city, outside our borders (despite the crucial importance of quick healing), and our units won't be mutually supporting - any local disaster turns into a full scale breakthrough and reinforcements take too long to arrive because we have no roads.

We will of course be slowly pushing our lines outwards as we get more units and our cultural borders expand. But until we've got 8 units at least, we should stay inside the short perimeter.

I would still wait for quite some time to discover Bronze Working. At least until the toughest part of the barbarian waves will get through. Even a single axeman can be lethal here for us.

Don't they appear after we actually have mined and connectedcopper(iron)? And we'd be building axemen immediately then.

 

[Balbes]

CB: Nice! (if their overanalysis goes that far)

 

[Balbes]

Spawning of barbarians is easier to prevent than to fight them off. Actually, having a larger border is good on one side because this disperses more fog but is bad on the other since we are easier to spot and barbarians would be coming from various directions just because they can see us better.

BTW I believe barbarian attacks do not work on a per unit basis. Rather, once the player "Barbarian State" knows the location of our city, all newly generated barbarians converge directly on it (if they don't have anybody closer to attack). This is what I observed in my tests in Worldbuilder.

Right now we have too much fog to bust and too few units to do it with. There is god knows how much unexplored land to the south-east. No other civs there, or we'd have been contacted by their scouts by now. All the barbs out of there are ours.

 

[Dynamic]

We must have in mind there isn't Copper here... How long will we study Iron Working?

 

[Obormot]

I would still wait for quite some time to discover Bronze Working. At least until the toughest part of the barbarian waves will get through. Even a single axeman can be lethal here for us.

What do you mean? Is there a rule that prevents barb axes from spawning if we don't have the tech? Then maybe you are right, though I have never seen barb axes before 1000BC with or without BW. Maybe we need some more testing? Because It would be nice to chop forest after building the pasture and mining the gold hill to accelerate the settler build.

The settler at the horses will, of coure greatly slow down our science, but I don't think it is really important now. We should discover all the really important growth techs, so short term science slowdown won't hurt us. As for long term goals, the faster we build the Palace/FP, the better, so expansion is good.

I've been thinking about what Lexad said about Alphabet/Literature and I think I agree with him. Let us scrap that branch of the tech tree altogether. I think we should use the Oracle for MC and take CoL with a prophet (we should not learn Masonry to make this possible). But no TGL means we better start generating GSs earlier to get 3-4 by the time we discover Machinery.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

So my plans changed and it gives me possibility to play today, since we cant loose everithing in any case because of our unavailable capital. And we'll can't deceive Peanut or the other team by this way. So, I finished my set and the description will be soon.

 

[Lexad]

I've been thinking about what Lexad said about Alphabet/Literature and I think I agree with him. Let us scrap that branch of the tech tree altogether. I think we should use the Oracle for MC and take CoL with a prophet (we should not learn Masonry to make this possible). But no TGL means we better start generating GSs earlier to get 3-4 by the time we discover Machinery.

We don't have to wait for GPriest but research it ourselves. You'd have library at the capital and 2 scientists and great 3-commerce-resource city - that is enough. Waiting for Prophet might be too long, if we start to capture Spanish cities. However, making this shortcut while researching Machinery or smth else useful is tempting.

Balbes, your warrior-placing is good, but I'd rather move some out to bust the fod and decrease the space of barb "feding grounds" -and thus their numbers. Also, don't forget that Osaka's cultural border will expand in like 10 turns. Northern direction is also of little concern as Spain has Barcelona there, and should also be willing to expand its borders.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

2500 BC (0) – Just pressed “enter”. The wealthiest civilizations in the world: 2nd – Isabella, 8th – CFR.
2470 BC (1) – South warrior won – 1,8 remains. Northern moves 1 tile north, south-western – also 1 tile north. 1 more barb warrior appears on the east.
2440 BC (2) –

No new barbs. Both barbs moved west. Our northern warrior moves back south.
2410 BC (3) – Barb hit south – our warrior won – 1,2 health remains. Northern warrior goes to hill to help defend.
2380 BC (4) – No new barbs (are they really raging? We can’t see anyone because our warrior won but just 0,6 health remains. Move him W to heal inside borders.
2350 BC (5) –

2 new barbs – south west and south-east. 5 turns healing of our most damaged warrior. Worker completes pasture.
2320 BC (6) – No new barbs. Western warrior won defense and 0,9 health remains. South-eastern barb moved to hill. Switch citizen to pasture to grow for 1 turn. New warrior completed – stay inside capital for a while. Worker building road on sheep. Work boat ready in Kyoto – decide to explore a bit first. Damaged warrior from west moved to the road and will go to capital to prevent a very bad random in defending of Osaka.
2290 BC (7) – 1 new barb at south. Another one moves north west close to Osaka.
2260 BC (8) – 1 new barb at west. Barb near Osaka hits to SW and our forest hill defender don’t lose any health. Promote him to Woodsman I. Wounded warrior heals for 3 turns inside capital. The other walks SE – wants to take into hill. Worker completes the road.
2230 BC (9) – No new barbs. Southern warrior won – 1,3 health left. Taking into the hill – found 1 more barb. Worker goes to mine gold.
2200 BC (10) – 1 new barb at south. We have discovered Bronze Working. We have a source of copper 2 tiles south from stones. New warrior completed. Next turn the borders of Osaka will expand. Eastern barbs moved close to different warriors, so there are no big danger of loosing a battle.

The total of “battle” turnset – 6 won, 0 losses. I set research to Iron working but it just the 1st turn and we’ll lose nothing switching it to another tech.

 

[Lexad]

Swell!

Copper, stone and Fish - excellent location for third city, and not too far away from Osaka. I propose speeding settler by chopping (there's little space, and Spain might wish to grab stone by their 3rd city, so we must be quick), and next science - Writing.

When get Writing, pop-rush by 1 pop in Kyoto nearly-finished workboat, hammer overflow goes to lib, then 2 turns later pop-rush for 3 pop library and put 2 scientists.

It seems no new lands in the west. I think for now Kyoto is a dead end of evolution, and we might use it only for pop-rushing useful buildings like libraries, chouses etc and ships later.

 

[Dynamic]

Nice, may be Iron will be inside our borders...
Don't forget set automatic growth limit ON in Kyoto or switch to Slavery for pop-rushing.