SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

We don't need to limit Kyoto if we go for Writing, as we will use 1+3=4 pop for rushing.

Edit: Also, as it was siad, we have so many resources in our cultural borders it's hard to expect copper or iron there. I'd rather not risk and go for settler. We have no jungle to chop now.
 
Great work on the barbs! :goodjob:

The warrior-only defense seems to be working fine so far. :) It is strange that we didn't encounter any barbarian archers.

I think we've reached the point when we need to make an important strategic decision: are we going to build the palace or the FP on the mainland. We cannot tell for sure now, but it looks like those islands in the north are isolated. If so, then moving the palace seems to be a stronger option. The cow/clams site looks good, but even if we settle there, decreasing the upkeep of just two cities doesn't seem to be worth it.

In this case we can indeed postpone learning CoL as Lexad said and concentrate on MC/Machinery. GP farming should be planned carefully, ideally we need 3-4 GSs by the time we learn machinery & kill all rivals on the starting continent so that we can immidiately lightbulb to Astronomy (1 for optics, 2 for astronomy & maybe even 1 for compass).

A city with just a library gives GS #1 in 25 turns, GS #2 in 50 turns, GS #3 in 75 turns. So one library city gives 3 GSs in 150 turns, 2 library cities give 3 GSs in 100 turns (first city generates GS #1 & GS #3), 3 libraries give 3 GSs in 75 turns. Judging from the previous game we will need those GSs by about 800AD which is 160 turns from now, but we may need it much sooner, maybe in 120-130 turns from now, depending on the map, so we should propable start 2-3 cities working on GSs before 1000BC unless we get further information. We should also watch out for the Oracle so that we don't generate a prophet (if we really want to delay CoL).

A big problem for our planning is that we don't know how many civs are on our continent (or can be reached by galleys), actually we don't even know whether we need Astronomy or not, we are just suspecting it. :) We need a coastal city produce a boat so that we can tell for sure, but I don't see this happening in the near future.

OK, that's it for the Grand Strategy, now onto the tacticall stuff: ;)

We need to decide what techs to learn next and we need to decide where to place our next cities. We need to expand fast now to set up a nice production base for building the palace, the Oracle and enough units to protect us from barbs and to kill Spain & whoever else is on our continent once we are strong enough. I think we should build several settlers and enough units to protect them before we start working on the wonders. That will slow down our science, but we should be able to learn the most necessary techs and once the palace is moved we will research very fast again. I cannot access the save now, but I should be able to do it at least once before going out of town, so I should be able to propose a dotmap. But out of my head I can tell that we need a city near the copper, a horses/sheep city in the SE, a wheat/sheep city in the SW and a coastal city for the second GP farm.

EDIT: I am not sure if we need IW now. Maybe it will be better to learn Writing next and the pottery (for cottages, granaries and so that we can take MC as the Oracle tech). Math is also good since there are a lot of trees. And of course we need to switch to slavery.
 
@CB :goodjob:

Let's discuss a bit more. Building city near copper and connecting it might be a priority in this situation. Also, for samurai, we still need CS. And we don't know anything about Astronomy.

Roster:

Dynamic
CB
Obormot
Psitsa - UP
akots - preparing
Balbes
Lexad
IL2T
 
I think we do need Astronomy, anyway if we take Optics & Astronomy for free, we don't waste any time at all (machinery is needed for samurai too). But I think Astronomy is required, SGOTM games are usually quite long. CS is good to have, but not very urgent, we can start the wars with less advanced units. If we take MC for free with Oracle, we need to research Machinery, CS and a bunch of cheap techs.

Agree about settling nexr copper next. We should start the settle as soon as we grow to size 4 pumping out warriors untill then. Settler should be accelerated by chopping. As we build more warriors we should extend our defenses in the direction of the future city site.

As for the techs, I suggest Priesthood, Writing, Pottery for now. IW is nice, but we have coper and horses and that should be enough to protect against barbs and (hopefully) to kill spain.
 
Every next city will significally decrease our scince, so, may be we need to settle both simultaneously and immediately start Palace with chopping.
 
Fistful of Dynamite also got religion and even earlier then we... may be they got Mysticism from the Hut or went for Meditation or not Settle more time.
 
Dynamic said:
And, Ptitsa, please, it's not time for "intuitive" playing... lets discuss first.
:agree:
Its necessary to reduce speed of our game strongly!
We already have enough information for construction of the detailed strategic plan...

I suggest to move forward not earlier than in 3-4 days!:nono:
 
Dynamic said:
Fistful of Dynamite also got religion and even earlier then we... may be they got Mysticism from the Hut or went for Meditation or not Settle more time.
We can't know for sure, but my take on it is they settled in the same spot as we did, on the same 10th turn, and went for Buddhism and got it (or got some gold from the hut). Worker-first build as well. Anyway, Fistful of Dynamite are a relatively strong team but not outstanding early-mid to mid game managers. We should be able to stay ahead of them.
 
IL2T said:
:agree:
Its necessary to reduce speed of our game strongly!
We already have enough information for construction of the detailed strategic plan...

I suggest to move forward not earlier than in 3-4 days!:nono:

Well, usual SG rule is that there is 24 hours for "got it" and then 48 hours to play. Unless there is a 24-hour "got it" a player can be skipped alltogether. Let's move it while it moves. I'm pretty sure that if players want to play and are eager to play, it is better to play. Delaying the game so that others cannot see what we are doing, is not a good idea imo. Besides, if we don't play for a long time, the game can just die. Also, when we move it fast, everyone on the team has a better idea of what is going on. For example, my memory span time is rather short and I tend to forget things after about a couple of weeks. ;)
 
Dynamic said:
Every next city will significally decrease our scince, so, may be we need to settle both simultaneously and immediately start Palace with chopping.

If so then we need to go for archery or Iron Working. In other way we'll can be not enough powerful to defend 3 cities.
 
I've just taken a quick look at the save.

Isabella has built another city, 1N1NE from the stone deposit.

There is a second copper resource in the south.
 
Actually I was watching to see where she settles next. What do you think about we build our next city near the southern copper. In the north, we'd be competing with Isabella for stone, and stone isn't that great anyway. And the copper is on a desert tile. In the south, we have 3 resources instantly workable, and with fish and deer we'd be able to mine all the tundra hills. This city looks like a powerful production city in fact. Let Isabella settle the north and generally prepare it for our axemen.
 
Obormot said:
I think we've reached the point when we need to make an important strategic decision: are we going to build the palace or the FP on the mainland. We cannot tell for sure now, but it looks like those islands in the north are isolated. If so, then moving the palace seems to be a stronger option.
It will take us so infinitely longer to build the FP than the palace, I didn't think it was ever seriously considered.

As for the techs, I suggest Priesthood, Writing, Pottery for now.
Why do you think Priesthood should be researched first?
 
I'd rather build a city near eastern copper (1NE) so it grabs copper (4 hammers), stone quarry(1F4H), fish (5F1C + 1F with ligthouse to which we have production bonus) and plains hill (4hammers with mine). We need strong production cities to build up our military, and this location is perfect. Also thus we can slow down the spread of Isabella's empire.

As I said I'd rather go for Writing and Phood next. Also, with our strong science (bring in pottery and make Osaka an uber-commerce city) we can research CoL fast enough ourselves and not wait for priest which is bound to lose the first round to scientist - or we're slowing down our research significantly by not employing scientists for long. Meanwhile any city near just 1 food resource can become the desired GScientist generator. Confucianism will allow us to push back Isabella's borders from our third city.

Iron Working is necessary, but not now - only in Medieval when all units save longbows need Iron. The most funny part will be if there's no Iron on this continent.

Should we chop the settler?

Note: don't forget we have a bonus to Chouse an Lhouse production.
 
The northern copper city isn't bad. It's a good city, it'll have 15 base production at size 5 while the southern copper city will have 16. However it won't be able to get there nearly as quickly. First you have to wait for religion to spread, then 15 turns for a border pop, then you can finally begin working the fish. The southern city can chop a workboat and use it right away. Also you need Masonry for the quarry, and Masonry is not a priority tech, and possibly quite useless.

By the way we should chop the settler in Osaka too (2 chops).

Isabella's empire spreading is a good thing I believe. She's our settler factory. If she settles the northern copper spot - good for us. The only problem is she doesn't seem to know Bronze Working yet and may not be attracted to that spot.
 
We need iron for samurai. However, we don't know yet if we need Astronomy. If not, we can actually try to wrap up the game without having to research to samurai, just with horse archers and swordsmen.
 
Excuse me for delay. Hard real life :(
I want to play today evening or night. Now I'm reading the this discussion :)

And, Ptitsa, please, it's not time for "intuitive" playing... lets discuss first.
Of cause :)

When I start to play (and may be before I''ll write my insight of playing.
 
Every next city will significally decrease our scince, so, may be we need to settle both simultaneously and immediately start Palace with chopping.
,
If so then we need to go for archery or Iron Working. In other way we'll can be not enough powerful to defend 3 cities.

I don't really like the idea. Let us just settle ASAP. We just loose 100 beakers or so (if we really want to build palace after 2 settlers). Also it may very well work out that production will be more important then science (especially if there is someone else except Isabella on our continent).

The techs we need urgently are pottery and writing. I am not sure in what order to research them. Propably it is better to learn pottery & priesthood first to get a bonus. Also I don't think that CoL is that urgent if we decide to jump the capital.

BTW, I have an idea about how we can use Kyoto. If we adopt slavery & HR we can whip as many units as we like as often as we like. :evil: Each whip gives 1 unhappy face, but each unit will give +1 happy face with HR. So whipping won't be limited by anything. With 4 food resources it'll be a production powerhouse even while running 2 scientists. Once we learn Astronomy we can move those units out and attack somebody. The city will then be totally unhappy, but it won't matter anymore. Of course we'll only be able to build catapults (unless there is iron on that rock), but that is still quite usefull. We may also colonise the cow/clam island and do the same there.
 
Back
Top Bottom