Dynamic
But not hurry
As Lexad said, when we will know exact turn for CS discovering, we can set production on Swords some turns before this point for prebuilding.
SGOTM 02 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Balbes
Instigator
OK I'm back.
We're going to get Astronomy in 7 turns and Civil Service in approximately 6 turns after that.
Our combined production is in the range of 90-100 hammers per turn. As we're also building other stuff, we'll be getting someting like 1 catapult per turn from the cities on unit production. This is what I believe we should be doing and it'll give us plenty of catapults to sustain the first 1-2 wars.
Coastal cities should finish forges and start building galleons soon after Astronomy I believe. 2 galleons are enough for a working chain but I'd prefer to have 5 or 6.
Also I'd like to begin building roads to Satsuma with workers that aren't busy with improvements.
What is our plan for Madrid? Maybe use it just like Kyoto in our catapult-poprushing plan? That is whip Samurais as quickly as the population regrows, and abandon the wrecked city at some point?
We're going to get Astronomy in 7 turns and Civil Service in approximately 6 turns after that.
Our combined production is in the range of 90-100 hammers per turn. As we're also building other stuff, we'll be getting someting like 1 catapult per turn from the cities on unit production. This is what I believe we should be doing and it'll give us plenty of catapults to sustain the first 1-2 wars.
Coastal cities should finish forges and start building galleons soon after Astronomy I believe. 2 galleons are enough for a working chain but I'd prefer to have 5 or 6.
Also I'd like to begin building roads to Satsuma with workers that aren't busy with improvements.
What is our plan for Madrid? Maybe use it just like Kyoto in our catapult-poprushing plan? That is whip Samurais as quickly as the population regrows, and abandon the wrecked city at some point?
That is an interesting option... We'll be able to build 2 turn samurais (or even 1-turn), that is tempting. I don't have the game now, so I cannot tell how fast we'll be able to produce them by normal means though. Looks like not too fast: we have only horses and copper there. If it is indeed significantly slower, then we may use it the same way as Kyoto. We should build a couple of galeons there first, since most of other port cities are on the wrong side of the continent and don't have all th infrastructure.
We should definitely build a road to Satsuma and also a road to connect spanish cities with japanese cities and Tokyo which is still not connected. Yayoi can stay disconnected for a while since it will propably be building galeons there. But at some point we'll need a road there too.
Also note that we can switch to slavery after 6 turns without slowing down, because on the last turn we aonly need 2 scientists. Also if we can trade for feudalism, we should buy it and switch to vassalage.
We should definitely build a road to Satsuma and also a road to connect spanish cities with japanese cities and Tokyo which is still not connected. Yayoi can stay disconnected for a while since it will propably be building galeons there. But at some point we'll need a road there too.
Also note that we can switch to slavery after 6 turns without slowing down, because on the last turn we aonly need 2 scientists. Also if we can trade for feudalism, we should buy it and switch to vassalage.
IL2T
Prince
We can get Astronomy and through 6 turns!Balbes said:
SW Warrior wishes to go on other good place, there is not interesting to a mouth of sheeps
Balbes
Instigator
As for Madrid:
Poprushing a samurai costs 2 pop and Madrid can regrow them in 2 (sometimes 3) turns, meanwhile putting the overflow into a war chariot, which stays in the city to suppress the anti-slavery movement, and the samurai leaves for the front. A samurai every 2 turns, for as long as we want, is equivalent to 50+ hammers per turn and none of our cities are even close to this kind of hammer output. Additionally, when/if we get Guilds, we'll have the option to upgrade all the chariots to knights (although Madrid will then become useless of course). All things considered, this may be a much better plan than I thought.
EDIT: My numbers were off (and the reality is even sweeter )
Poprushing a samurai costs 2 pop and Madrid can regrow them in 2 (sometimes 3) turns, meanwhile putting the overflow into a war chariot, which stays in the city to suppress the anti-slavery movement, and the samurai leaves for the front. A samurai every 2 turns, for as long as we want, is equivalent to 50+ hammers per turn and none of our cities are even close to this kind of hammer output. Additionally, when/if we get Guilds, we'll have the option to upgrade all the chariots to knights (although Madrid will then become useless of course). All things considered, this may be a much better plan than I thought.
EDIT: My numbers were off (and the reality is even sweeter
)Cool, that's clever. 
The MM is a bit tricky: we should alter our production between 12 and 13 hammers for it to work. (Note that poprushing with a forge costs only 2 citizens and we should do it at less then 15 hammers invested to get 105 shields from the bug). If we have more then 12.33 production we'll drift over 15 shields at the start of a cycle and won't be able to use the bug and if we have less, we won't be able to complete WC on time.
How it should work:
1. We invest 13 shields into samurai.
2. We poprush at 13/105 -> 118/105. We change tiles to have 12 shields normal production. This gives us 25 overflow.
3. We complete WC (25+12=37).
Go back to step one.
I am not sure if we have enough shield tile in Madrid though to sustain this cycle...
Maybe we should ask AlanH first if we could use it. Sounds a bit exploitive to me. But to think of it: nobody disallowes us to poprush and nobody disallows us to use cheap units for MP.
The MM is a bit tricky: we should alter our production between 12 and 13 hammers for it to work. (Note that poprushing with a forge costs only 2 citizens and we should do it at less then 15 hammers invested to get 105 shields from the bug). If we have more then 12.33 production we'll drift over 15 shields at the start of a cycle and won't be able to use the bug and if we have less, we won't be able to complete WC on time.
How it should work:
1. We invest 13 shields into samurai.
2. We poprush at 13/105 -> 118/105. We change tiles to have 12 shields normal production. This gives us 25 overflow.
3. We complete WC (25+12=37).
Go back to step one.
I am not sure if we have enough shield tile in Madrid though to sustain this cycle...
Maybe we should ask AlanH first if we could use it. Sounds a bit exploitive to me. But to think of it: nobody disallowes us to poprush and nobody disallows us to use cheap units for MP.
Balbes
Instigator
Yes, somebody who likes precise calculations (Lexad?) should look into this in more detail, because we can adjust the food/hammers in Marid by building farms and workshops. In fact this is why I'm asking, because then I'll create two workers in Madrid during my turnset and get the necessary improvements in place.
IL2T
Prince
Step 2. It's wrong.Obormot said:
Pop-rush 2 citizens give us 132 (3*44) hammers, if remains 89-111 hammers up to the end of construction (This is a pop-rush bug!) In cycle it's possible to insert galleon!
Balbes
Instigator
Actually by running with food in the red we can get it in 5 turns! I intend to do just that, because the lost food will be more than compensated for by better trade routes with Astronomy and the scientist citizens freed up earlier.IL2T said:
Yes of course; he's the soon-to-be garrison of Satsuma.SW Warrior wishes to go on other good place, there is not interesting to a mouth of sheeps
Yes, my numbers in the previous post are wrong, I realised it myself. We get 132 hammers when rushing with 2 citizens at the right moment. So for the cycle to work we'll need 3-4 hammers base production, not 13-14.
But we can do even better: rush samurais/galeons every 2 turns in Madrid and produce chariots every two turns in another city.
But we can do even better: rush samurais/galeons every 2 turns in Madrid and produce chariots every two turns in another city.
IL2T
Prince
Obormot said:
What you think about production plan?
IL2T
Prince
Obormot said:
The right moment for town with forge(+25%) is 45-56 hammers remaining then 1 citizen pop-rush give 88(!) hammers; 89-111 hammers remaining then 2 citizen pop-rush give 132 hammers.
IL2T
Prince
Obormot cycle will work in Kyoto!
105 + 37 = 142 - 132 - 5*2
Or cycle with catas!!! 88 + 2 * 5 = 60 + 37 + 1
105 + 37 = 142 - 132 - 5*2
Or cycle with catas!!! 88 + 2 * 5 = 60 + 37 + 1
We should propably build chariots in Seville (since chariots are not suited for rushing and it is our closest non-poprushing city). Madrid should build samurais and galeons every two turns. It will be difficult to MM though, since poprushing alone gives more hammers then the full cost of samurai/galeon, so we won't be able to make a stable 2-turn cycle. Propably we should rush with one citizen from time to time and with 3-4 citizens for one-turn builds with penalty from time to time... We should build some workshops there, so that we can reajust normal hammer output dynamicaly and MM all the time...
Kyoto can also take advantage of this tactics. But since we cannot bring chariots from other cities we need to think of a complicated cycle to build usefull untis and MP chariots (we should have horses there after Astronomy)... Edit: IL2t beat me to it - we can build samurai & a chariot every 5 turns in Kyoto.
Kyoto can also take advantage of this tactics. But since we cannot bring chariots from other cities we need to think of a complicated cycle to build usefull untis and MP chariots (we should have horses there after Astronomy)... Edit: IL2t beat me to it - we can build samurai & a chariot every 5 turns in Kyoto.
Dynamic
But not hurry
What size will Edo have after this execution? I'm not sure it's right decision...Balbes said:
Dynamic
But not hurry
We don't need so much Galleons...
IL2T
Prince
Dynamic said:
We need 18 + 15*4 = 78 GPp.
Losses of foods will make 7 + 4*3 = 19. No one citizen of Edo is lost!!!
Balbes
Instigator
I also think that we don't need a constant stream of galleons. Still, we can use this method to get a few galleons in the beginning. Thereafter it's chariots or just samurais (depending on how the MM calculations work out).Dynamic said:
Everything works fine with both galeons and samurais. The most important conclusion is that we loose more by not using Madrid food potential fully, then we loose from wasting hammers on MP. So we should build chariots in Seville for MP duty in Madrid and rush whatever we need in Madrid constantly (micromanaging everything dynamically). We loose about 1 samurai every 6 turns by building those chariots, but we gain about twice as much since Madrid will produce a samurai every 2 turns instead of every 6 turns.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Yes, you are right! I forget about granary effect...IL2T said:
And, if we will have "free" worker, we need Mine Hill near Osaka...
