SGOTM 03 - Team VQ

dot · Dec 4, 2006

namliaM said:
@Dot
It doesnt look to be a hill 2 North of the scout to me... Shouldnt it light up if it was a hill?

I made the hill three north. And I don't think there is one. But for the scout's site it's not important. It's not in the BFC anyway.

namliaM said:
We are looking at turn 180 at the earliest! Probably more like turn 200...

Yeah, sure! :rolleyes:

How about building the Mids in St Pete? When getting the stone bonus? Results:

Spoiler 200 turns :

Conclusion:
I am for settling on the scout site.
I am for getting both wonders.
I am for founding none of the early religions.
But first of all I am for moving that settler 1NE and if there is a ressource hidden under the fog ... take a screeny and post it!

Regards, .

Cosmichail · Dec 4, 2006

Having deduced the direction of the team I have had a change of heart.

Totally Agree:

dot said:
Conclusion:
I am for settling on the scout site.
I am for getting both wonders.
I am for founding none of the early religions.
But first of all I am for moving that settler 1NE and if there is a ressource hidden under the fog ... take a screeny and post it!

Regards,

The 2 turns is much better of course and Frankcor's right with that kind of approach to getting the game started we are going to play well.

Another screenshot with settler revealing that terrain? Only thing I am worried about that he is in no danger. I mean no animals can pop up at this point? He is travelling alone and pretty much defenseless.

Should we get both wonders it would be a huge boost. Specialist economy and extra trade routes! That's all we would really need since I believe the temple of Artemis needs marble if we were thinking about that one.

So another move, moving the settler and scout to reveal more terrain?

bobrath · Dec 4, 2006

At this point.... a move would at least give namliam more to plug away in his spreadsheet!

Scowler · Dec 4, 2006

I like dot's latest scenario (scout site) very much. My only comment at the moment is that we also need to ensure we locate / stake a claim to the nearby metal resources reasonably quickly on this cramped map.

namliaM · Dec 4, 2006

bobrath said:
At this point.... a move would at least give namliam more to plug away in his spreadsheet!

Not sure how to take this... :confused:

I know we may be overdoing this a lot... in particular in VQ :lol:

@Dot,
When did you revolt to Slavery?
Builds in Moscow:
Warrior (MP Moscow)
Workboat
Workboat
Warrior (Future MP St. Petes)

Then what? You finish a workboat (turn 49, for St. Petes) next in Moscow, which is whipped (for 1 pop) I think.
Followed by a settler (60) and a worker (67, Whipped for 1?)

I have something simular, except if you work the Grass Forrest 1 turn just after the popping of the border. You delay nothing, but still grow 1 turn earlier.
Which makes Moscow size 2 at turn 25 instead of 26, picking up 2 hammers.

Try this tho:
After the warrior, Moscow @ size 4
Put 1 turn into a Worker
Whip for 2 pop (lots of overflow)
Put the overflow into a Settler
Start a Workboat to size 4 again (Work Grass forrest to grow ASAP)
@Size 4 Whip the settler for 2
Overflow into Workboat and finish it

I think you will find that to be better, I need to test it myself actually so I am not really sure!

Hi Scowler

About Metals, we know pretty soon where Copper is... Iron is far far away

Scowler · Dec 4, 2006

namliaM said:
Iron is far far away

I sincerely hope not ... as the crow flies, at least.

My point is: if it turns out that copper and iron are nearby on our island, fine. If not, we may need to re-assess our priorities. Wonders won't ultimately do us much good if all the nearby copper, iron (and horsies?) turn out to be on neighbouring islands and have been already grabbed by other civs. I'm sure they won't be, but ... perhaps Gyathaar got out of the wrong side of bed on the day he rolled this map...?

All I'm saying is that we mustn't get so wrapped up in Wondering that we neglect to find out about the world around us.

Cosmichail · Dec 4, 2006

How did Iron get to another galaxy? mmmmmm Yes it's a concern no friggin frigates without it.

namliaM · Dec 4, 2006

That is why I was keen on checking out the AI on my test games.

With 3 cities I was down 2 only on the leader in city count and on par with most. Which is better than I can say for many a Monarch game on Pangea :eek:

Mids and TGL will help us greatly I think and if needbe we can make a nice offence with catapults + Archers. Speed doesnt kill on Archipelo, like it does on Pangea.
Boats and Catapults, loads and loads of both is all we need to dominate this watery world

I hope to get out a Galley to explore before even TGL or Mids are done.

Edit:
Dot, How did you get the mids so fast in St. Petes? It is founding somewhere in 60-odd turns, so you build it from scratch within 70 turns. 750/70 = 10 / 2 = 5 hammers per turn on average.
+Obelisk, to get at the second Crabs. Another 45 hammers to get someplace.
Tell me... tell me...

Cosmichail · Dec 4, 2006

namliaM said:
I hope to get out a Galley to explore before even TGL or Mids are done.

that would be a major priorty too

dot · Dec 4, 2006

namliaM said:
Dot, How did you get the mids so fast in St. Petes? It is founding somewhere in 60-odd turns, so you build it from scratch within 70 turns. 750/70 = 10 / 2 = 5 hammers per turn on average.
+Obelisk, to get at the second Crabs. Another 45 hammers to get someplace.
Tell me... tell me...

Baby, Baby ... stay tuned. Will be in - in some 30 to 45 minutes the latest!

dot · Dec 4, 2006

Luck, I assume!

The forrest definitely did the trick. Otherwise I think it would for sure have been around turn 180.

Moscow looks like this at ~~490~~ 475 BC.

A Galley with settler and archer are off to foreign lands!

Spoiler a rather questionable autolog :

Aftermaths: The multiple starting of workers might have been caused by queueing them and putting them out again. :wallbash:

Took me some time to remember that i could check the amount of :hammers:

with mousing over the icon.

Note that I have gone back and forth saving and reloading to optimize my gameplay!!!

To note this also non-spoilered: I concur with Scowler and Cosmichail that we should prioritize (?proper english here, native speakers?) IW. We're basically screwed without Iron!

Regards, .

dot · Dec 4, 2006

The roster: :mischief:

namliaM (GMT+1)
Bobrath (GMT -5) I think
Greyfox (GMT +8)
Robo Kai (GMT +8)
Furrie (GMT +1)
Cosmichail (GMT -5)
Dot (GMT +1)
Scowler (GMT)

My votes:

Move settler E-NE.
If you find a ressource take a screeny and post it. Please.
Else. Just go ahead as you please. I think we did enough analysis.

Kind regards, .

namliaM · Dec 4, 2006

Well I played one last tester as well... I will play my set tomorrow, I think too we are at (near or even past :lol:

optimum). I have never spend so much time without actually doing anything.
Like I said, On a normal map one would expect to find another Spice there.... If it is just spice... I will just play on...

How much turns? 20-30-40?

I thought chat messages got to be comments?? I have to check how you make comments!....

Spoiler Autolog :

I finished the Great lighthouse in turn 10 despite building the Barracks before the lighthouse and inserting the workboat for St. Petes.
If we swap the barracks for an earlier workboat and earlier Lighthouse => Earlier Great lighthouse
Also St Petes had to build its own MP, which was a pain.

I think tech patch should be
Fishing
BW
Sailing
Masonry
Mysticism
Pottery
Writing (nothing special so far)
Mathmatics
Alphabet/Currency/Construction

I find that IW is in good supply allready with the AI, as is the religious techs.
Niether Math or Alpha was part of the AI tech Arsenal.

Why Math first? It is cheaper than Alpha therefor we can research it faster. It gives +50% hammers from chops. So if we can delay chopping them forrests around St. Petes we get 15 (raw) hammers per forrest bonus. 3 Forrests * 15 * 2 (for stone) = 90 hammers for free...
And if we chop/Cottage them tiles until there is one turn left (maybe even road?) we can store them chops untill the harvest time is there and cut them down.

If we want to go for the Pyramids we have to chop all 4 forrests and get the full 30 hammers for them! Leaving st.Petes a whipping GP farm....

I also expect us to find atleast 1 more suitable city spot on our island!

dot · Dec 4, 2006

I had mysticism straight after BW. So that St Pete could immediately go for the monument! I assume that this might be fine.

On our reports:
I'd like to see rather detailed reports in the first two or three sets so that we all know what we're doing and where we're heading. Furthermore I'd like to see some 48 to 72 hrs between turnsets to have time to discuss.

Team, whatcha think?

Kind regards from Germany, .

dot · Dec 4, 2006

namliaM said:
I thought chat messages got to be comments?? I have to check how you make comments!....

Alt+E works for me. Hey, that rhymes!

And sth I nearly forgot. The save with Mids and TGL. ~

Regards, .

namliaM · Dec 5, 2006

Multiple entries per turn doesnt work does it? *grmbl* or mutliple comments without anything else inbetween....

Spoiler uncut autolog for my last testgame :

Taking myst before sailing works and it allows st.petes to work on the Obelisk right away... Tho sailing => Myst would also work...
It is delaying masonry & the wheel, thus costing a little hammers on the Quarry... but that is OK I think, for the hammers gained (or not lost) in St Petes. Now to work out the good order of builds in St. Petes.
Obelisk
Pyramids
Obviously, but do we work the forrests "full time" or do we place a strategic whip (or 2) someplace?

GreyFox · Dec 5, 2006

Of-course reports should be as detailed as possible. WIth the HoF mod, the autolog is automatically included ... use it.

--

A whip may end up slowing pyramids even further (problem of 1 pop less and time to build up the strategic whip object), not sure though. A strategic whip of granary or lighthouse may be worth it.

--

namliaM · Dec 5, 2006

Any building is going to slow the Mids, except for maybe:
- Obelisk
- Worker

Worker we put 1 turn production in (CC + 2 forrests + Clams + Plains Spice) = 5 hammers
Then whip for 2 and get 40+ overflow.
After a few turns the difference will only be 1 forrest tile = 1 hammer/turn.
So at the cost of say 10 * 1 + 6 * 5 = 40 hammers we get 40 + overflow into the Mids. Which helps cause we have the worker to help (pre-) chop/pre-cottage+Road (Roading is important to save a turn on the final chop!) the forrests untill such time we can finish the Mids by way of lumber !

An obelisk is allways going to cost atleast 45 hammers, tho without the cutlure we will not be able to work the plains spice or the second clam.
We have to work 3 forrests + plains spice for 23 turns to get a return on investment, not sure if that is worth it.

I will give this another shot on simulating Petes build of the mids. But will atleast play up to and including the 2nd workboat, which is about turn 36. So 40 turns does that sound right?

dot · Dec 5, 2006

namliaM said:
Any building is going to slow the Mids, except for maybe:
- Obelisk
- Worker

Yep. That's what I've built in St Pete. Don't underestimate the plains spice. But to work them we need the monument. And before whipping that we need stone! So ...

BW > Mysticism > Masonry > The Wheel > Sailing ... > Maybe head right for IW after that. If possible we should sneak in Pottery ... so that the Great Merchant is giving us MC and that we can cottage up St Pete! - It's all a matter of timing. :crazyeye:

And yes! I think some 40 turns sounds fine!

At least for the start!

Regards, .

---------

Edit:

Scowler said:
All I'm saying is that we mustn't get so wrapped up in Wondering that we neglect to find out about the world around us.

Else we might be wondering ...

namliaM · Dec 5, 2006

Playing now... Getting us 2 workboats and more knowledge of the lands...

Question, how about turning around the wonders? They are both about equal in (raw) hammer count.

SGOTM 03 - Team VQ

crossing the i's

Dark Lord of The Sith

Emperor

Mr. Understatement

Deity

Mr. Understatement

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Dark Lord of The Sith

crossing the i's

crossing the i's

crossing the i's

Deity

crossing the i's

crossing the i's

Deity

Make it so ...

Deity

crossing the i's

Deity

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