SGOTM 05 - Fistful of Dynamite

[Munro]

Sheesh - sorry to hear about the car, Ralph (I assume that's what you're referring to)!

Straightforward turnset, plenty of MM and a couple of nice surprises:

- Toka declares war on Izzie and captures one of her cities; Izzie converts to Judaism and sues for peace
- Alex gives us 130 gold for alphabet, and builds 2 more prizes (sorry, greek cities) on silver island
- Hinduism spreads to silver island and reveals Alex's first city defended by ONE archer !!!
- Samarqand popped its borders and we now have 2 galleys, 2 swords, 7 axes, 1 spear and an archer poised on Alex's borders
- we now have the requisite gold for a 100% science run to Construction and catapults (8 turns).

Detailed turnset report here (part 1):

Spoiler :

Great Prophet builds Hindu shrine in Mecca: +10 per turn.

MicroManagement changes:

Medina: will become unhappy on next pop growth, so whip temple (allows 1st archer to complete after 8 turns instead of 16)
Mecca: at happiness cap, so work mined hill for a few turns instead of clams to control food and population, and boost hammers 1st sword now completing in 6 turns instead of 10)
Ning-Hsia (rice city): will become unhappy on next pop growth, so whip temple and start on library; plan to cottage over the rice for more gold and less food
Old Sarai (banana city): will become unhappy on next pop growth, but still building granary; plan to cottage nearby hill for an extra hammer and less food
Besh: switch 2 smallest cottage tiles (1 & 2 commerce) to copper mine + mined hill; start swords after library (2 more turns)
Galley: change 'go-to' orders to head to NW corner of Arabia for archer pickup (instead of directly to Mecca) - saves 1 turn

View attachment 160572

This puts us no more than 32 turns from getting Construction and therefore catapults - hopefully less with a nice windfall of from the capture of Alex's first city in about 15-20 turns.

Calendar = 443 / 1023 beakers (turn 206)

-- ENTER --

Medina now size 2 and has 8 v. 2 so move city garrison archer out to the galley to join the archer from Medina and free up an extra axe currently on garrison duty on the mainland; (we will backfill with an archer built in Medina before it becomes big enough to be unhappy from 'we demand military protection').

View attachment 160573

Calendar now 464 / 1023 beakers (turn 207); = 21 beakers per turn i.e. in another 26 turns we will get this free; should start settler soon

- build times will be 10-15 turns + another 5-10 turns for transport depending on build city and final destination

Also, Old Sarai does not have Hinduism yet - should build a missionary for this city soon.

-- ENTER --

IBT: Toka declares war on Isabella!
IBT: Isabella adopts theocracy (quite right too)

Toka still won't accept peace though...

After careful reflection, switch Mecca to double plains hill + pigs + horse (was plains / horse / 2 scientists); each scientist is only pulling in the equivalent of 3 commerce; we can do better from the cottaged wine (1 food, 1 hammer, 3 commerce) but the short term benefit of an early sword from all the mined plains hills and pigs seems a better short term return; (will switch back once first sword is popped for the war effort)

-- ENTER --

IBT: Alex demands we cancel deals with Cyrus (our gems...!) No chance Alex!!
IBT: Get Monotheism from free barb beakers (allows organised religion).

Decide not to switch to OR just now; although several of our cities are producing buildings, they are not critical to our immediate plans, and we would lose a turn through anarchy, plus 3 gold per turn from increased civic costs. Maybe later...

Samarqand finishes archer; start on spearman (worth having one, just in case; we can't see Alex's lands so he may have horses).

Qin Shi Huang now has Cho-Ko-Nu defending his cities...

View attachment 160571

-- ENTER --

Turfan finishes temple and needs something to build; start on settler for future sugar city (25 turns) and emphasis commerce by working cottaged stone and grasslands instead of rice (25 turns for settler instead of 22).

-- ENTER --

IBT: Izzie offers OB. Refused (to prevent barb hordes getting through to suicide themselves again in Japanese lands).
IBT: Cyrus is out scouting for a new lands to settle.
IBT: Delhi has switched to research (!), which is speeding up calendar progress nicely; I thought they were supposed to be barbarians! They'll be researching 'Music' next...

View attachment 160574

-- ENTER --

Gift Clams to Izzie; we have them spare, and the extra diplo points from fair / forthright trade and years of supplying resources may help stop her dogpiling in on us when we declare on Toka (which could be a tough fight); also, it may help give her a small boost to help fight off Toka, who is (just) beating her out in score; the longer we can prolong that war the better...

-- ENTER --

Medina: finishes Archer; start missionary for Old Sarai.

-- ENTER --
-- ENTER --

IBT: Toledo (Isabella) captured by the Japanese empire! Uh-oh, looks like Toka is getting the upper hand.
IBT: Isabella converts to Judaism. (Bad news as this is the same as Toka, who has Jewish holy city).
IBT: Alex shows his hand - he has sent a settler party south on Silver Island, presumably to hook up the silver. Good news for us as should be another easy target and save us building a settler to hook up the silver for the +1 . Note only 1 archer accompanying the settler.

-- ENTER --

IBT: Izzie demands Alpha; decide to give it to her since
- we have a chance of cultivating her to be friendly - or at least not attacking us when we are DOW'ing Toka later - and it may help boost her score enough to keep at the war for longer against Toka
- both Toka and Cyrus already have Alpha now, so since all her potential trading partners have it already (note - all 3 are now Jewish), it doesn't help her that much in the short term

IBT: Alex has loaded his settler onto a galley... where's he going with that then??

Note: Alex has currency and is willing to offer 120 gold for Alphabet. I'll wait a few more turns to see if that goes up, but probably worth taking since it should cut 5-6 turns off researching matchs (and therefore our overall victory time) and Alex will be dead soon anyway...

-- ENTER --

IBT: Isabella has made peace with Toka. Damn...
IBT: Alex gives up on the whole galley / settler experiment, and unloads back onto Silver Island. He now has TWO settler parties on Silver Island (with 3 archers + 1 warrior for protection). Here's hoping he founds 1SW of the silver, and not on the silver hill (which would give him an extra defence bonus).

View attachment 160575

 

[Munro]

turnset report (part 2):

Spoiler :

-- ENTER --

- Samarqand (desert iron city) finishes spearman; starts sword (5 turns); pretty useful size 1 city with that iron mine...
- Medina finishes Hindu missionary for Old Sarai. Starts on another missionary for Sugar City (or Alex City/Cities).
- Mecca finishes Axe (which was in the build queue with a few pre-built hammers from an earlier turnset); starts on archer; note - careful MM of Mecca's population required (switching between mined plains hills, cottages, clams etc. to prevent it becoming unhappy, while maximising hammers & gold).

Note: Cyrus new city has been founded north of Parsagadae, protected by 1 Horse Archer + 1 Archer, but now cut off from his homelands by border pop in Delhi (which is back building research after a short detour via Granary)!

View attachment 160576

-- ENTER

IBT: Alex founds Delphi 1SW of the silver (not on the hill). Excellent...
IBT: Old Sarai grows to size 4 and becomes unhappy, so whip granary and start on Library next turn.

-- ENTER --

We are 1 turn from border pop allowing our war galleys access to Alex. We have 6 axes, 1 spear and 1 archer waiting in Samarqand. 2 swords are 2-3 turns away, with another about to finish in Besh. Not many turns left now so sell Alpha to Alex for maximum available 130 gold, cutting 6-7 turns off our tech time for Construction.

-- ENTER --

IBT: Hinduism spreads to Sparta (Alex's border city on silver island), giving us visibility... and showing that Alex has only one archer in the city garrison!! Silver Island is clearly going to be a cake walk...

View attachment 160578

Here's the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Fistful_of_Dynamite_SG005_AD0815_01.Civ4SavedGame

And here's the official turn log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 590 AD to 815 AD:

Turn 206, 590 AD: Logging Game to File: Temujin-SGOTM05.txt
Turn 206, 590 AD: Temujin has completed The Kashi Vishwanath!
Turn 206, 590 AD: You have constructed a Hindu Temple in Medina. Work has now begun on a Granary.

Turn 207, 605 AD: You have constructed a Library in Beshbalik. Work has now begun on a Swordsman.
Turn 207, 605 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Medina. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 207, 605 AD: You have constructed a Hindu Temple in Ning-hsia. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 207, 605 AD: The borders of New Sarai have expanded!
Turn 207, 605 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Samarqand. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 207, 605 AD: Tokugawa has declared war on Isabella!
Turn 207, 605 AD: Isabella adopts Theocracy!

Turn 208, 620 AD: You have discovered Monotheism!

Turn 209, 635 AD: Archimedes has been born in a far away land!

Turn 210, 650 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Mecca. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 210, 650 AD: The Hanging Gardens has been built in a far away land!

Turn 211, 665 AD: You have trained a Galley in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 211, 665 AD: The borders of Turfan have expanded!

Turn 214, 710 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Hindu Temple.
Turn 214, 710 AD: Chichen Itza has been built in a far away land!

Turn 215, 725 AD: Toledo has been captured by the Japanese Empire!!!
Turn 215, 725 AD: Isabella converts to Judaism!

Turn 217, 755 AD: Isabella has made peace with Tokugawa!

Turn 218, 770 AD: Old Sarai has become unhappy

Turn 219, 785 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Old Sarai. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 219, 785 AD: The borders of Samarqand have expanded!
Turn 219, 785 AD: Mecca's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 220, 800 AD: The borders of Mecca have expanded!
Turn 220, 800 AD: New Sarai will grow to size 3 on the next turn
Turn 220, 800 AD: Hinduism has spread in Sparta.

 

[Munro]

Quick thoughts on the next turnset:

Probably a shortish turnset so we can reassess the situation and peace options (if any) with Alex after securing silver island.

- DOW on Alex next turn; attack with 1 sword, 2 axes, 1 spear (or swap for another axe before pressing ENTER) that are already loaded on the galleys
- capture (and keep) Sparta - will be a useful unit producing city with stone, fish, hills, forest and several plains
- raise other 2 cities on silver island for cash and bargaining rights (the silver city unfortunately likely won't have grown to size 2 so won't be able to keep that one, even though the +1 from the silver would be useful)
- drop off a small expeditionary force (axe + spear?) on alex's homeland to check out the defences so we can plan troop sizes required for phase 2 of the war
- then sue for peace taking either currency or metal casting (or both!) if possible
- meanwhile finish 8 turn tech run to Construction and start pumping out catapults in Besh, Samarqand, Mecca, Medina.

As Ralph says, the fun starts here...

Manic - sounds like you are up next (then Xatsmann, Ralph then me again). Want to post a 'got it' and thoughts everyone on the save and turnsets?

NB - careful of Alex's galley which is prowling somewhere; stick to the coasts for the +10% defence bonus, and avoid any unnecessary risks while troops are loaded!

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

My only qustion mark in relaon to Munro's plan is whether we should hold off versus silver city to see if it would grow to size 2 so we can keep it as the extra happiness would be worthwhile?

On balance if we just park an axe next to it it wont do us any harm and if we are patient it should eventually grow and it might encourage Alexander to send reinforcments to it which we could kill in the open..

Obviously the priority is pushing onto Alexanders mainland and capturing his capital and we shouldn't let anything get in our way but letting him Keep Delphi also allows us the option to do some pointy stick research to take Metal Casting (having taken the rest if his cities) for peace whilst just leaving him the irrelevent Delphi to hole up in for 10 turns. Views? I dont feel strongly either way as Munro's plan is also good!!

Manic if you can play Tue / Wed suggest you post a got it and xatsmann follows. If you cant play till later let us know and Xatsmann can pick up the save. Fair enough?

Ralph

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Just one other small thought, good idea Munro in producing a spearman as they will later see a lot of action versus Cyrus Immortals / Horse Archers and in the mean time can serve Doctor duties.

Well now off to see my 4 month old car being towed away to the repair centre!!

Ralph

 

[Manic_]

ok - GOT IT - will play tonight - i like the idea of keeping a gimped greek city for peace negotiations later without leaving him with anything important.

Will look at save after dinner.

 

[Munro]

My only qustion mark in relaon to Munro's plan is whether we should hold off versus silver city to see if it would grow to size 2 so we can keep it as the extra happiness would be worthwhile?

On balance if we just park an axe next to it it wont do us any harm and if we are patient it should eventually grow and it might encourage Alexander to send reinforcments to it which we could kill in the open..

Good suggestion, Ralph - yes, agree this is worth doing if if doesn't interfere with our plans too much. We will definitely want a city down there soon anyway, so probably worth waiting a few turns (assuming it looks like Alex is working the right tile to let it grow) to capture it rather than having to build a settler of our own!

Worth checking Alex's civics though to make sure he does not have slavery or democracy. With slavery he could whip the city back down to size 1 as soon as it grows (and surprise us with extra troops). With democracy (from pyramids) he could plausibly also rush-buy troops and surprise us that way. Probably not likely but worth checking. Is it democracy that allows you to rush-buy or am I confusing with another civic?

Next turnset should be a fun one...

 

[Manic_]

Plan of attack is to take alex's city - leaving delphi as an easy - hit later on when we trade techs for peace.

Going to attack next turn as we have enough to take that city (1 Archer) with the 2 galley full of units.


Desided not to do a turn - by - turn but to just give the main events.

Took Alex's city - moving onto other one - he has a phlanx in it so our axes should be cakewalking.

Took the other city 2 turns after - got worker on that island also

moving onto alex mainland...

barbs discovered calander - going to get the dye hooked up for extra happy.

dropped 4 units on alex mainland - he has archers mainly - also construction in. thought i'd pillage for a few turns before sueing for peace.

Made a complete when i was going to sue for peace by not pressing the wrong button - having a real mare about this - but was some good news - as 3 units moved to japans lands next to nara - which i feel we can take next turn - swapped most cities to max GPT - was going MONARCHY - we can get + from wine and also Military garrison - which i think will help a lot - note we are quite near monarchy.

Ok - lets game with monarchy in - we are getting +11 GPT and able to pillage japans lands for extra GOLD.

We are building cat's - and ferrying over units for the staging on Athens.

SAVE

 

[Manic_]

Turn Log

Spoiler :

Turn 222, 830 AD: Hinduism has spread in Old Sarai.
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (5.25)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Combat Odds: 59.2%
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Temujin's Axeman!
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (2.64)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Combat Odds: 89.9%
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (21/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (2/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 222, 830 AD: Temujin's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 222, 830 AD: You have captured Sparta!!!

Turn 225, 875 AD: Temujin's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Phalanx (3.57)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Combat Odds: 90.9%
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 225, 875 AD: Temujin's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Phalanx!
Turn 225, 875 AD: You have captured Thermopylae!!!
Turn 225, 875 AD: Hinduism has spread in Bantu.

Turn 226, 890 AD: You have discovered Calendar!

Turn 228, 920 AD: You have discovered Construction!

Turn 230, 950 AD: You have made peace with Alexander!

Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman (6.60) vs Tokugawa's Archer (5.40)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 68.6%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Archer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Archer has defeated Temujin's Swordsman!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman (5.50) vs Tokugawa's Spearman (3.47)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 95.5%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Spearman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Spearman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Spearman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Spearman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman has defeated Tokugawa's Spearman!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman (5.50) vs Tokugawa's Archer (0.61)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Tokugawa's Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 231, 965 AD: Temujin's Axeman has defeated Tokugawa's Archer!
Turn 231, 965 AD: You have captured Nara!!!
Turn 231, 965 AD: Socrates has been born in Persepolis!

Turn 232, 980 AD: Heron has been born in a far away land!

Turn 233, 995 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Turfan!
Turn 233, 995 AD: Homer has been born in a far away land!
Turn 233, 995 AD: The Sistine Chapel has been built in a far away land!

Turn 234, 1010 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Turfan!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 234, 1010 AD: Plato has been born in a far away land!

Turn 235, 1025 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Turfan!
Turn 235, 1025 AD: You have plundered 4? from the Pasture!

 

[Manic_]

SS'S FOR TURNSET

Declairing on Alex


Taking Sparta (Alex)


Taking Therm (Alex)


Taking NARA (Japanese)

 

[Manic_]

Sorry about the delay guys - will try to be quicker next time round.

 

[Manic_]

As we are about to hook up the dye for +1 Happy - should we bother with HR? i think it will help out - but maybe wait until we capture the pyramids?
As we can also hook up the wine for +1.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Ok an interetsting situation, need to look at the save before commenting. What were Alex's defences like on his mainland?

 

[Manic_]

he has about 7 archers, a phlanx and possible a warrior.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Made a complete when i was going to sue for peace by not pressing the wrong button - having a real mare about this - but was some good news - as 3 units moved to japans lands next to nara

Don't you just love teleporting troops whene they go somewhere useful.

Anyway looks like nice progress.

My thoughts for Xatsmann's set..

1. Our forces in Japans land probably cant take another city so need to be carefully marshalled. Pillaging is good but not at the cost of our highly promoted axemen. Nara would be a good city but only with a border pop which we are a long way from engineering. I would let Toku recapture it and then raze it leaving our Axemen on a wooded hill in Toku's terrtirory for him to suicide units against.

2. I think we need to start building another galley or two as we really need 1 assigned to medina / mecca ferry duties, 1 to Samarqand / Sparta ferry duties leaving us only 1 to take troops to alex and then the mainland. So when our current builds complete I would get Medina / mecca and karakorum to produce another galley to get us started on a navy.

Watch out for Qins' caravel. Our galleys may need to hide in port until it disappears (it should be in explore mode so hopefully will). If it sank 2 of our galleys it would be a serious setback.

Rex Alex's capital. As long as we start with say 2 axes we can gradullay build up forces to take down the capital at which point see if we can get a good tech for peace, if not kill him and take silver town.

 

[Manic_]

I was thinking if we pillaged Japans lands more though - would he offer peace? But perhaps it's more china that we need peace with as Japan will be targer # 1 After Alex.

 

[xatsmann]

My thoughts:

Let's concentrate on taking out the Alex. We have a nice sized army north of Delphi--the silver city--let's take. Once it is take we will control the island completely and can move our troops over to take Athens--our real goal.

We're about to finish a settler in Turfan, do we really need it? Don't we have enough cities? Should I produce more spearman or swordsmen instead? I also agree we need more galleys ASAP since want to be able to move most of our army off to attack either Athens or the larger island with Japan and Greece after the fall of Delphi.

I like the idea of allow Toko to retake Nara--but will he raze it? I don't know if he will so I think we should keep it and let him keep attacking it. It will keep his army busy while we take out Alex to his north.

I don't think we can do much research at this point because of our financial situation so I will concentrate on building military units. I looked over every city and changed a few things but I still can generate more than +17 a turn with 0 research. Our best chance to get technology comes from the battlefield and not from the lab at this point.

I will do the move either later tonight or early tomorrow morning.

 

[Manic_]

Just build swordsmen and cats - spears are not worth while.

As far as the silver city - leave it - it's doing nothing at the moment - and when we take athens we can sue for peace and get techs from him (unlike i did last time).
Then 10 turns later take the weak city.

We then should be in a good position to ferry troops over to NARA in Japans land and attack from there.

As far as the settler goes - your right i think, the silver city will not be captured but raised - so i think we will be using it for that.
If not we can move it over to the Japanese lands ready for the city spamming.

 

[xatsmann]

Here is from my save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Fistful_of_Dynamite_SG005_AD1196_01.Civ4SavedGame

My turn log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1025 AD to 1196 AD:

Turn 235, 1025 AD: Taoism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 236, 1040 AD: The borders of Old Sarai have expanded!
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult (5.50) vs Temujin's Axeman (5.50)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 236, 1040 AD: Temujin's Axeman has defeated Tokugawa's Catapult!

Turn 238, 1070 AD: Euclid has been born in Kyoto!

Turn 239, 1085 AD: Hinduism has spread in Thermopylae.
Turn 239, 1085 AD: The borders of Sparta have expanded!
Turn 239, 1085 AD: The Great Library has been built in a far away land!

Turn 240, 1100 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult (5.50) vs Temujin's Axeman (2.18)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 22 (13/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult has defeated Temujin's Axeman!

Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Swordsman (6.60) vs Alexander's Phalanx (9.25)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Combat Odds: 12.2%
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Phalanx has defeated Temujin's Swordsman!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult (6.00) vs Temujin's Axeman (6.75)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Combat Odds: 30.8%
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Tokugawa's Catapult has defeated Temujin's Axeman!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Nara has been captured by the Japanese Empire!!!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Temujin's Axeman (5.50)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer has defeated Temujin's Axeman!

Turn 244, 1124 AD: The borders of Beshbalik have expanded!

Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman (6.60) vs Alexander's Phalanx (8.00)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 26.8%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Phalanx is hit for 18 (79/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Phalanx has defeated Temujin's Swordsman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman (6.60) vs Alexander's Axeman (9.25)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 12.2%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman has defeated Temujin's Swordsman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman (6.60) vs Alexander's Axeman (9.25)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Combat Odds: 12.2%
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Temujin's Swordsman has defeated Alexander's Axeman!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: The borders of Karakorum have expanded!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Isabella adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Cyrus adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (6.30)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Combat Odds: 24.3%
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Temujin's Axeman!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer (6.12) vs Temujin's Swordsman (0.52)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer has defeated Temujin's Swordsman!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Galley (2.00) vs Temujin's Galley (2.20)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Combat Odds: 32.2%
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Alexander's Galley has defeated Temujin's Galley!

Turn 247, 1142 AD: Harkuf has been born in a far away land!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Tokugawa adopts Vassalage!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Tokugawa adopts Serfdom!

Turn 248, 1148 AD: Qin Shi Huang's Golden Age has begun!!!

Turn 249, 1154 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Old Sarai. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 249, 1154 AD: You have discovered Currency!

Turn 250, 1160 AD: Cai Lun has been born in Athens!

Turn 251, 1166 AD: Alexander's Galley (2.25) vs Temujin's Galley (2.20)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Combat Odds: 51.5%
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 19 (75/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 19 (56/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 251, 1166 AD: Alexander's Galley has defeated Temujin's Galley!

Turn 252, 1172 AD: Temujin's Galley (2.00) vs Alexander's Galley (1.45)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Combat Odds: 88.3%
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 19 (37/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Temujin's Galley is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 19 (18/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Alexander's Galley is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 252, 1172 AD: Temujin's Galley has defeated Alexander's Galley!

Turn 253, 1178 AD: The borders of Thermopylae have expanded!

Turn 254, 1184 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Beshbalik. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 254, 1184 AD: You have trained a Galley in Mecca. Work has now begun on a Galley.

Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer (7.20) vs Temujin's Swordsman (6.60)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Combat Odds: 67.6%
Turn 255, 1190 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Temujin's Swordsman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 255, 1190 AD: Alexander's Horse Archer has defeated Temujin's Swordsman!
Turn 255, 1190 AD: While defending, your Swordsman was destroyed by a Greek Horse Archer!

Turn 256, 1196 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Athens to 51%!

Finally my write up:

Turn 0 - 1025 AD

Switching production:

Turfan from settler to galley--we have enough cities but need more naval transport
Old Sarai from library to barracks--emphsis on military production.

Optimized out economy for production at the expense of wealth and research.

Turn 1 - 1040- AD

Forced to redo economy to allow for more wealth as we were at -10 and now at +3 gold per turn.

Turn 2 - 1055 AD

Turn 3 - 1070 AD

Our peace treaty with Alex has made it difficult for me to get to the Japanese controlled cities as
Alex lies between us and the Japanese.

Turn 4 - 1085 AD

Use our Hindu missonary to spread Hinduism to Thermopylae
Shift production in most cities to libraries since we cannot attack until peace treaty with Alex runs out

Turn 5 - 1100 AD

Turn 6 - 1106 AD

Peace treaty canceled with Alex--horray!!
Declare war on Alexander

Turn 7 - 1112 AD

Turn 8 - 1118 AD

Lost Nara back to the Japanese
Drop off 3 swordsman and 1 axeman at Athens

Produce first catapult in Beshabik


Turn 9 - 1124 AD

Turn 10 - 1130 AD

Took Athens source of horses

Turn 11 - 1136 AD

Turn 12 - 1142 AD

Alex sinks one of our galleys

Turn 13 - 1148 AD

Rush library in New Sarai so we can produce a galley

Turn 14 - 1154 AD

Turn 15 - 1160 AD

We get Currency due to Barbs research

Turn 16 - 1166 AD

Turn 17 - 1172 AD

We lost a another galley but we killed Alex's galley

Turn 18 - 1180 AD

Turn 19 - 1184 AD

Turn 20 - 1190 AD

Turn 21 - 1196 AD

Total of 341 gold--research restarted at 40%--metal casting in 4 turns.

Athens defenses at the end.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Nice work Xatsmann and looks like Alex is ready to be plucked..

So this is my got it, if I have any questions for discussion I will post them tonight otherwise should have report up Tuesday evening.

Ralph