SGOTM 05 - Trash Team

[lordofcivs]

We should test to make sure Alex can not cross the ocean through our culture if we are at war.

I think you don't need to worry about that. You have my words. Alex can't use our culture bridge during wartime, or any other time, unless he has a Open Border Contract with us. Culture bridge is just one way and only we can use it.

Don't believe me?

Try to move your galley in the ocean tile of any of your opponent. You can't. You don't even need to make that move. Just select the galley, press 'G' for goto, and move your cursor at any of the ocean square of any of our opponent. You will see that it doesn't allow you to move your galley over there. As we can't use the cultured tiles of other civs without Open Border, they can't do the same.

 

[lordofcivs]

The reason I put those 3 axes in the fleet is that they're combat 1, CR3 and will come in handy if there are spears to deal with. I also take the point about using Keshik mobility to free up ship movement, but this will leave our stack prone to attack as it closes in on its target. Isabella has construction and it'd be unfortunate to have them weakened by catapult attack and have to pause to heal. We'll capture Barcelona on the same turn regardless so my inclination would be to play it safe initially (once we've captured it and have religious LOS into almost every AI city, we'll have a better idea of the resistance we'll face). However, this aproach would mean that reinforcements take about 10 turns longer to arrive, which might be an unacceptable delay.

Well, I agree with Patagonia. I still recommend that we cover our Keshiks with Axmen. If Keshiks travel the whole path by themselves, I am pretty sure that out of those 11 Keshiks, just 7 or 8 would reach Barcelona, and some of those would be extremely wounded. In Foreign borders at war, units take a long time to heal, much more than if they go their via galleys. Each Keshik is going to be defeated easily against any of the spearmen Izzi have.

If we are in so much hurry about their landing, I would recommend to capture Seville, or Tolledo first, instead of Barcelona. This way we will have a quick hub in the main continent and can do better move.

Well, my vote is for letting the Galleys go the the Stone Quarry (as proposed earlier), then attack Barcelona by full force. After capturing it, we can whip train archers (as proposed by Cabert). Most probably, Barcelona will already have barracks. If not, we can even whip that too. During the time we will make a strong defence there, we can bring more forces (16 units in total - at present we just have 8 units stationed in Old Sarai - 6 Keshiks, 1 Axmen, and 1 Spearman).

In the second transportation, we can directly land units as close to the city we gonna attack (I recommend Toledo). Our other forces from Barcelona would have already started to march towards the second city. This time even if we lose a keshik or 2, it's not gonna be that bad. We can even decide to move them with covers, as the second transportation will take some time too. We can even check the defense in Toledo or Seville by risking a single Keshik.

Now whatever you guys decide, let me know, because now I have to play my turnset........

 

[lordofcivs]

Well, once we have Barcelona, we should change our religion to Hinduism. Most of the cities in the world are having this religion. Declaring Hinduism as state religion will help us know the defenses in Toledo, Seville, and all other cities, and we can attack easily.

 

[lordofcivs]

I know everyone is being worried about the time it's taking to reach Barcelona via costal route. But costal route is giving us a guarantee that we will capture it in single attack. We can take a risk of Keshiks traveling by land, but this was they will be vulnerable to attack by any of the spearmen Isabella got.

I believe once we get barcelona, we will have something like satellite, and we will be able to attack any Hindu City, as we will know the exact defence in that city. Speed will boost up automatically. Capturing Barcelona is much more important than it seems. I believe we shouldn't risk our forces just for this battle. This is in fact "LA COMBATE MAYOR DE ESPAÑA". So we shouldn't take this easy.

 

[patagonia]

I agree. Religious LOS will be a big boost, and shared religion bonus will hopefully allow us to make peace with Cyrus/Toku until we've finished off Izzy which will help with productivity due to reduced WW.

With Toku having longbows, we'll probably need a decent number of cats on the main continent before we can take cities off him without unacceptable losses.

Finally, note that unless she's being given any in trade, Izzy's only source of metal is underneath Madrid, and her horses can easily be pillaged by our Keshiks. Reduced to archers only, she'll be toast before long and our horses will mop things up easily.

 

[remconius]

Ok I am convinced. Sail the boats around to Barcelona. Once we have Barca, we can see inside all Hindu cities and plan our attacks from there.

Vamos a vencer España!

 

[lordofcivs]

Finally I played my turnset. There is a long long story to tell. Once upon a time there was a Great Ruler of Barbarians... named "Temujin"..............!

1055 AD
Sent our Navy to Barcelona as planned.
Added Catapult in queue of Karakorum.
Changed 1 mine to a Cottage in Turfan & added Catapult in the queue.

There is some kind of bug or something here, that never saw before. There were 2 workers building a mine. But in fact the mine was already built by another worker. It was showing that it needs 4 more turns for those 2 workers to finish mine. Activated those workers, so that we can utilize them somewhere else.

1070 AD
Chopped down forest for Beshbalik.
Utilzed 3 Workers to build Cottage at Old Sarai.

1085 AD
Worker Started to Mine Iron.

1100 AD
2 Workers Started to build Cottage at plain tile in Ning-hsia.

1106 AD
Isabella found "Zaragoza" near Old Sarai, creating a culture bridge to reach our Base Island. This culture bridge can be used by Izzi and all other Civilizations having "Open Border" with her. So, it must be destroyed before it gets strong.

So, sent A Keshik with Spearman (as there is a Horse Archer Close) in order to destroy Zaragoza.

1112 AD
Troops to attack Zaragoza Landed Successfully.
3 Workers started to build cottage for Karakorum.
Tech learned: Code of Laws. (Didn't change the civic, as we agreed to go whipping Spanish guys.) There was currency in the queue. Didn't change it.

1118 AD
Destroyed Zaragoza.

Turfanish People got mad. Added an archer in the queue. 3 turns remaining for Catapult to be built.

1124 AD
Research has been dropped to 10%.
3 workers started building another cottage for Karakorum.
Ning-hsia finished building Cat, started to build another one.
Mecca finished building Archer, added another one.
Taoism has been found in a distant land.

1136 AD
Turfan finished building Catapult.
My bad, as I used auto - "Goto" for our navy to reach Stone Quary, they attacked automatically. They delivered Keshik first, he attacked the spearman without waiting for Axman. Sorry for that, but we lost 1 Keshik there. Second Keshik easily killed wounded spearman easily. Now we got 10 Keshiks & 3 Axmen for "The Great Battle of Barcelona".

1142 AD
There is something pretty surprising here: You can see by yourself!

Thinking too much. We are so cruel oppressing the punny civilization. After all we are Barbarians. There was just 1 Axmen there. "The Great Battle of Barcelona" was pretty short. Just 1 Flanking Keshik dyed for the sake of "The Lord of Barbarians - Temujin".

Have submitted the saved file:
Saved File 1142 AD

 

[lordofcivs]

Turn Log from 1055 AD to 1142 AD:

Turn 237, 1055 AD: You have trained a Galley in Turfan. Work has now begun on a Catapult.

Turn 238, 1070 AD: You have trained a Archer in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 238, 1070 AD: You have trained a Keshik in Ning-hsia. Work has now begun on a Catapult.

Turn 240, 1100 AD: Cyrus adopts Vassalage!
Turn 240, 1100 AD: Cyrus adopts Serfdom!

Turn 241, 1106 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!

Turn 242, 1112 AD: The Colossus has been built in a far away land!
Turn 242, 1112 AD: Socrates has been born in Madrid!

Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Keshik (6.60) vs Isabella's Archer (6.15)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Combat Odds: 66.6%
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: (City Defense: +95%)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Temujin's Keshik has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: You have captured Zaragoza!!!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: You have pillaged 6 ? from the destruction of Zaragoza!!!
Turn 243, 1118 AD: Taoism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 245, 1130 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Turfan. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Mo Tzu has been born in Shanghai!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Homer has been born in Kyoto!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Isabella adopts Vassalage!
Turn 245, 1130 AD: Isabella adopts Serfdom!

Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik (7.80) vs Isabella's Spearman (11.40)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Combat Odds: 13.7%
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman has defeated Temujin's Keshik!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Your Keshik has died trying to attack a Spearman!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik (6.00) vs Isabella's Spearman (4.10)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Combat Odds: 93.3%
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Combat: +100%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 17 (19/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 17 (2/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Isabella's Spearman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Temujin's Keshik has defeated Isabella's Spearman!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Your Keshik has destroyed a Spearman!
Turn 246, 1136 AD: Plato has been born in Persepolis!

Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik (6.00) vs Isabella's Axeman (9.75)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Combat Odds: 5.6%
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman has defeated Temujin's Keshik!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Your Keshik has died trying to attack a Axeman!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik (7.20) vs Isabella's Axeman (6.82)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Combat Odds: 73.3%
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman is hit for 18 (52/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman is hit for 18 (34/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman is hit for 18 (16/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Isabella's Axeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin's Keshik has defeated Isabella's Axeman!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Your Keshik has destroyed a Axeman!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: You have captured Barcelona!!!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 247, 1142 AD: Temujin converts to Hinduism!

I enjoyed this.
​

 

[remconius]

Good turnset and glad to see you won the tough battle against Barcelona!

That's what I call butt quicking. I guess Isabelle never saw us coming. I wonder if she has an army somewhere else or if she was still expanding.

Now onto Madrid to see if we can take the the metal from Spain.

Roster (10 turns each)

Remconius (UP)
cabert (on deck)
Stuge
Cam_H
patagonia
lordofcivs (just kicked butt)

Lurking: Pigswill

I'll get it tonight and check out the save.

In general the plan will be to send forces to Spain to quick more butt. Are we going to start razing or are there more cities we want to keep (Toledo, Madrid?)

I'll also focus on getting more gpt to improve our financial position.

I'll convert to Hinduism if we need this to see Hindu cities.

 

[patagonia]

I'd convert immediately while Barcelona is still in revolt so that we don't lose any whipping time and can see what forces need to make the trip to Madrid. If she's only got archers/axes there, the Keshiks may as well head straight for it.

 

[cabert]

I'd convert immediately while Barcelona is still in revolt so that we don't lose any whipping time and can see what forces need to make the trip to Madrid. If she's only got archers/axes there, the Keshiks may as well head straight for it.

even if she's loaded with spears, we need to get rid of her!
2 keshiks kill a spear without any problem.

 

[stuge]

Nice set, lord.

I say we should keep Madrid and Seville. With both Toku and Cyrus packing longbows we're going to need a decent production base on the continent.

 

[lordofcivs]

Sorry Rem, but I already started revolution for Hinduism.

The only city of Isabella having strong defense is Madrid. Toledo & Seville both have just single archer each.

We should attack Seville & Toledo right away.

She also got War Elephant. So I believe whether we whip-train one or 2 spearmen or bring them from base. As there are not too many forces here. I believe it's better if we attack most of the spanish cities right away, so that we can finish Izzi before she gets Feudalism.

Toledo, Seville & Dehli are good cities to capture. We can raze the rest. Now there is one more problem. Tokugawa is much stronger than we expected.

 

[remconius]

Goodjob on converting.

Amaxing how weak spain is, it'll be a walk in the park, whereas Tokugawa will be nasty. He could easily come out to attack us.

How about we capture cordoba and offer it to Tokugawa for peace?

 

[patagonia]

Does he have elephants already? If not we don't want to go gifting him those in a hurry.

With any luck, the combination of Hinduism and rapidly changing power graphs as we kick Spain will encourage Toku/Cyrus to be more agreeable. You can normally build up a decent shared religion bonus with Japan which should help in the short term.

 

[remconius]

Good point about the elephants. Maybe gift him some other crappy town.

 

[cabert]

Good point about the elephants. Maybe gift him some other crappy town.

Isn't it a bit too late for peace?
time for mass catapults, if you ask me.
Cordoba is a keeper IMHO, for the happiness and production ability+it's already hindu.

 

[patagonia]

Hi team,

I'm afraid I'm going to have to go on autoskip for the next 2-3 weeks as I won't have access to my Civ computer (can come online, but not play games).

I'll post again when things are back to normal.

 

[pigswill]

Lurking

May be worth noting that Madrid's on a hill with 60% defence, even archers will be respectable defenders.

 

[remconius]

This is going to be tough: keeping Barcelona, Toledo, Seville, Madrid, Delhi, Cordoba.

6 cities with large distance maintenance. At the moment we are running 10% science. That leaves very little room for additional maintenance. How much will Barcelona bring in?

If we are going to keep 6+ cities on the continent, I think we should set the old cities to full commerce. Working/growing max cottages and minimal mines. Units that are produced at a slower rate can still be shipped, but the bulk of our army will then be built in "Old Spain".

I am a little worried about Tokugawa, we are at war and if he is bored, he could send a nasty force at us. What to do?