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SGOTM 07 - Smurkz

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 7 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

    The team lists are at the end of this post.

    The Game
    You are Qin Shi Huang, the great Chinese leader. You find yourself on a tiny world, surrounded by all the other vanilla civs. You can only build or own a single city, and the difficulty level is .... Deity!

    The Objective
    This Deity OCC game is on a Tiny map, at Normal speed, against 17 rivals. All victory conditions are enabled, and the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the earliest victory date in the game.

    Versions
    This game will be played in Civilization IV version 1.74, and using the latest vanilla HOF Mod.

    Windows players need the HOF Mod at: HOF-1.74.002.
    Windows players who have not installed BtS 3.13 will need to swap their vanilla CvGameCoreDLL.dll file so that their Civ4 installation is compatible with copies that have the BtS installation. Download the new DLL zip file here. The enclosed Readme file gives details for the installation.

    Mac players are in a separate team as the HoF Mod cannot be made to work cross-platform. They will use Civ4 for Mac version 1.74, and HOF-Mac-1.74.002.

    Schedule
    Start files for each team will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of April 24.

    Please try to complete this game within three months of the start date.

    Starting Position
    Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.


    Map Parameters
    Playable Leader/Civ - Qin Shi Huang of China.
    Characteristics - Industrious and Financial, starts with Agriculture and Mining
    Unique Unit - Cho-Ku-Nu (Crossbowman)
    Rivals - All of them
    World size - Tiny
    Difficulty - Deity
    Landform - Continents
    Environment - Temperate climate, low sea level
    Game Speed - Normal
    AI Aggression - Normal
    Barbarians - Normal
    Permanent Alliances - Enabled
    City Razing - Enabled. China auto-razes to enforce OCC.

    Notes
    • Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
    • Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher. The laurels will be presented to the three teams who achieve victories in the fewest turns.
    • All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
    • Do NOT view any other team threads until you have submitted your last save - win, lose or retire.
    • Do NOT download any other team's save.
    Enjoy your game, and please be nice to each other :D
     
  2. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

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  3. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    This is all probably completely obvious, but I may as well get it out there. The start seems designed to encourage settling in place. East is a lot of tundra. West takes us off the river (a big deal on deity with only one health resource in sight, I think) and away from at least some of the food. North gives us a whole lot more ocean than I think we want for our one-and-only city. South loses the food. And going more than one turn away in any direction is likely to bump us right into one of our neighbors, given the crowding. Heck, even one space away might be too close, so I think our arms have been twisted to make us stay put.

    Given that, it also seems clear that the map designer (can't remember who that is, sorry!) is trying to encourage a Wonder-heavy start. I mean, industrious+stone+marble+tons of forests? Seems obvious, and seems designed to lure teams away from the idea of much early warring. Of course I have no idea *why*.
     
  4. unkle

    unkle Emperor

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    Hi happy smurkzers !
    Checking in.
    Agreed on settling in place (we need those workboats anyway, so anything south would be strange).
    Warrior SW seems best option to me, just in case we find Corn+Rice+Pigs awaiting for us :rolleyes:

    Anyway looking forward to play with some of you "again" and some of you for the first time. Welcome our new team members, lazarillo ;) (which I know), Quotey and Renata.

    Let's hope we survive and try to win this one :king:

    I made up (in Smurkz SGOTM06 thread) a test game if you want to have a feeling of what will happen in the early years. I'll try to post a tentive time line later on.
     
  5. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Checking in!
     
  6. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    The AI will squeeze us immediately. I think moving the settler is a mistake. The only decent move visible is 1W, which trades crabs for whale, trades fur for unknown, and loses the health bonus. I don't think that's ideal.

    In my test games, twp or three of the AI weren't fast enough to found a city with their second settler. They will be weak and easier targets. It should be easy to identify them from the charts since this is vanilla.

    There is no need to try to find the AI. We should see several cultural borders within the first few turns. Others will come to chat, or we can find them later via open borders.

    A worker steal should be possible, because the worker can flee before the warrior is killed by the archer. In the test game, I lost the warrior about 90% of the time when stealing a worker. What do you think, is it worth it?

    Difficulty level chart http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3562189&postcount=9
     
  7. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    I don't know, were you able to get out of war again without getting the capital overrrun? :)

    Anyone have any ideas about how to approach this game in a strategic sense? What victory condition would be fastest? What condition would be most likely not to get us killed? And since I have no idea where to look it up: what is the requirement for cultural victory with OCC?
     
  8. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    The requirements foa a culture victory are the same, you still need three cities to achieve legendary status. We would need to have PA's available. It is possible in vanilla. I've seen it done and was part of an SG that did it. BTS is just easier.

    I suggest reading WastinTimes' "Permanent Alliance Guide".
     
  9. lazarillo

    lazarillo Chieftain

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    Hey all,

    I am checking in as well. I just realized that maybe I will be in trouble. The post above mentions that Mac players should be somewhere else. I have a mac. Does this mean I won't be able to join the Smurkz team? Sorry for any confusion...

    Mike
     
  10. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Do you only have a Mac? If so, then you won't be able to play on a PC team, as the PC version of the HOF mod doesn't work with the Mac version.
     
  11. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    We haven't really discussed anything yet, so if you post in the sign-up thread about the issue (or PM AlanH), you could probably still change to the Mac team.
     
  12. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I used the 'Report Post' to let the mods know. If he has a PC then it isn't a problem. If he only has a Mac, then unfortunately you'll have to switch to the Mac team, since it won't work here.
     
  13. unkle

    unkle Emperor

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    Excepting diplo, not much we can hope for I think without a PA anyway.
    Culture and Domination are not doable without, Conquest, well..., Space is probably too difficult too. As I mentionned before we also need to think that we need to win before the AI launches. I do not know what to expect from deity AI but... time will not be doable I am afraid :D
     
  14. unkle

    unkle Emperor

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    @lazarillo: tough, did not knew you were using a Mac. I should have checked before, sorry. In the realm of gaming they are somehow so "uncommon" :mischief:

    Next time when civ5 will allow it ;)
     
  15. ChrisShaffer

    ChrisShaffer Board gamer

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    About 1 in 3 tries, I guess. Probably not worth the risk. On the other hand, the game is over quickly if you lose :)
     
  16. zyxy

    zyxy Warmongering Fool

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    checking in.

    No experience with OCC or Deity, so looking forward to it!

    Is there any reason not to settle in place? Main disadvantages are the whale just outside the boundary, and the lack of luxes. But this cannot be changed by moving. EDIT: I now see this was discussed already.
     
  17. unkle

    unkle Emperor

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    I do not really have an experience at Deity, but lack of luxuries seems a lower concern to me: we'll only have a capital, with the palace, and fur are giving +1 with a market. Civics like HR are our friend, but getting there (Monarchy) might be tougher than I expect.

    Whale is nearly always a non issue to me when thinking on where to settle anyway. So long before the ressource is available, and for not that much.
     
  18. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    On my test game I lost the Pyramids by a couple turns. One mistake I made was not building a worker first. I also researched a few techs I shouldn't have. Deity seems like you need to get to Alphabet first and trade for everything you missed.

    BTW, I suggest downloading some of WastinTime's diplomatic victories from the HOF site. He plays OCC (no PA) when going diplomatic.

    Your test save had one error, the CC should have been a plains hill. I got squeezed quick, but ended up meeting a lot of AI's. I stopped after losing the Pyramids. I'm still unsure what the best strategy is, but I'm thinking worker first is definitely the best.
     
  19. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

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    I think we should be aiming for a diplomatic win. I believe that will be a lot faster than any other possibility with these settings. Though of course I never actually tried, so what would I know. :crazyeye:

    Seriously though, it should be fairly safe for us to get the UN if we go for it. The problem is to get the necessary voting support of course. That means a tight diplomatic game, which I think would be really fun.

    Settling in place is a no-brainer. What to research first, what to build first? How important are the Pyramids really? If we aim for a GP-heavy game, running Representation would be really nice of course. But since our capitol isn't really food-savvy, I'm not so sure. HR sure, but is the investment really worth the difference compared to waiting for Monarchy?

    My suggestion would be worker first, researching Masonry for quarry, BW for chopping, Fishing for WBs, and then beeline for Alphabet. Pottery seems less important - cottages won't be very important to us, we don't have the food to play a whipping game and we're strapped for luxuries it seems - but since we start with Agriculture, and since we want Fishing, and since TW is a nice-to-have anyway, I'd suggest the order Masonry->Fishing->BW->TW->Pot->Wri->Alpha.

    Does anyone feel we want to go for Hunting early? Could we skip BW until after Alpha, and thus trade for it instead?
     
  20. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Happiness isn't a problem in OCC games. Globe Theatre.
     

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