SGOTM 10 - Smurkz

That all sounds pretty good, although it would be better if Mao had Econ and was running FM. Only DeG and Roose have FM now, and Churchill won't talk to us or open borders. Nobody is anywhere close to Communism. Churchill was over 40 turns away, although I don't know yet what Roose is researching.

One thing I'd like to do since Medicine is a ways off (24 turns at current breakeven pace) is to take off 2 Seaside specs to work mines. This hugely speeds the Chouse (saving us 19 gpt) and then a bank (+21 gpt at 60% research). I'd also like a grocer and market but we'll likely be running sci's again by then (Chouse and bank would take 5 and 9 turns vs 7 and 13 as is). This would save us around 116 gold over building those 2 at the current rate (plus 4 gpt for the rest of the game with the bank) and we could then work on the observatory and university for the switch back to Sci's. Currently we'll get a GP in 18--this would only slow it to 22, and we could tweak things to match Medicine as we get closer.

I need to run out for a bit but might be able to play again around 4:30 if we agree. If not, then tonight.
 
I suppose pull two specs and work the mines and go with your builds. If we flip to FM now it drops to 25 turns, not 22, which may be a bit on the later side. One thing I'd like clarified - you're running 100% and 0% when applicable, correct? You're not splitting the difference and running 60% the whole time, right?

As for FM - I'm not flipping to it to get max trades routes, it's for the 25% maintenance drop. Yeah, it'd be nice if Mao had it, but trading / gifting economics to him is out of the question since it'll piss both Churchill and Roosevelt off further than they already are. We'll get routes from both the French and Americans from 10 of their cities, so it's not like we're not going to be close to filling the slots anyway. FM is a one turn revolt - I don't see us getting a GA anytime soon, so we might as well flip this turn.

Oh yea, there's a barb galley south of Tiny Spec. Use our frigate to wipe it out. Another thing - as for the spy mission by Gandhi - he only has 50 gold, so waiting the 5 turns plus giving him time to get a treasury built would make the mission far more lucrative.

Yet another edit: Oh yea, for a paranoid player you're nuts sending an unescorted galleon through Roosevelt's land when he's built privateers in the past. I don't even think I'd have done that. :p
 
Plan
Moscow: Mining exec for Horsetropolis, Intel Agency(1), execs.., Kremlin--settler some time??
St Pete: market, grocer(5), levee(6)
Broberg: airship, airship(3) for Tiny
Seaside: Chouse, bank, observatory, Globe(6) if hammers threaten to decay--adjust specs?
Silverton: wealth, drydock(6) to coincide with Combustion
Horsetropolis: Mgun, bank, grocer, destroyers/transports
Copperville: Mgun for Cowflop, wealth, drydock(3)
Cowflop: wealth or bank
Tiny: courthouse, theatre(14), wealth
Pt Frozen: courthouse, wealth
Novgorod: Chouse, whatever seems best
BlackGold: Chouse
New fish city: culture, 3 workboats, Chouse

If we want more cities I think we need Moscow to build the settlers since it'll take too long elsewhere. That island east of our target fish city looks OK--shall I go for it?

Switch to Free Market immediately and open borders with Churchill when possible. He has a lot of gpt I'd love to get our hands on with a resource trade.

With the loss of the free Merc'lism spec in Seaside I'd only take off 2 specs until the Chouse was done, and then see how we're doing on the Medicine timing. If we have time to delay the GP then I'd keep one or two specs on hammer duty to speed the bank, and maybe the observatory. But I understand that we want the Great Merchant simultaneously with Medicine. Uh, what exactly is our plan for Sushi and why the big rush?

Mining Inc spread order: Horsetropolis, Tiny, Broberg, Copperville, Cowflop, Silverton ...?

[Edit: Xpost with BL. Yes, I have a frigate moving toward the barb galley. Hmm, forgot about the privateers. I'll see what I can do. And yes, I'm doing 100% or 0%. The 60% was just a temporary setting so I could do rough breakeven estimates.]
 
Sushi in St. Pete would be nice for a ton of reasons. One, we could work more tiles or two, we could run a whole bunch of merchants with it. Sushi in Moscow would allow us to run a handful of engineers. And when global warming comes into play, we'll have food to deal with say, the corn tile turning into a desert. Sushi in Seaside... well, more GP's is a good thing, right?

As far as Moscow going on settler duty - well, we'd need a second transport to make that happen since both galleons are out in the middle of nowhere right now and we'd have no way to transport them around until combustion. And the fish city at pop 5 and working the three seafood tiles and 2 workshops it can get a settler out in 14 turns. Throw in the fact it doesn't require nearly as long of a travel time and we have ourselves a winner for settler duty in the area. Culture -> WB x3 -> settler would do it. Leave one of the galleons around to transport both the settler and the workers over.

EDIT: plan comments: Why another Mgun in Horse?
 
OK, sounds good. The Mgun in Horse is cuz we sent one off with the galleon and need one each in Horse, Moscow, and Seaside.
 
I don't think we need an mgun in Horse and would rather see the bank get started, but alright.
 
I've uploaded the save.

172/1759 continued--I shuffle units between Seaside, Mosow, and Horse and skip the last Mgun and start a bank in Horse. Our settler carrying galleon stops off in Roose's cities on the way to avoid privateers. We kill the barb galley south of Tiny. Pre-revolt: at 100%, 924 bpt and -231 gpt. Revolt to Free Market.

173--Mao got a Gt Eng. Now at 100%, 989 bpt and -224 gpt. Seaside has 4 trade routes of 5,5,6,7; Moscow 4,4,4,5; Horse has 3 foreign 4-gold routes; others domestic. Ah, Gandhi has a new caravel! Sunk.

174--Roose offers 150g for Constitution; I decline. Moscow finishes exec, starts IntelAgency(1). Copperville finishes Mgun (to Cowflop), starts wealth. Silverton starts drydock (7ish). Mining estab'd in Horse, bank now in 6 (after reassigning new spy citizen to eng). I move one of the Seaside miners back to merchant; GP in 24->21, Chouse in 4->5. Mao and Churchill are both upping the EPs; I've lowered Roose's weight.

175/1862--Mao offers to trade maps. I sell ours for 55. Moscow finishes Intel Agency, starts cranking out execs. St Pete finishes grocer, starts market (5), Broberg starts 2nd airship(3). Churchill has switched to Steam Power(50); we'll see Mao next turn and Roose in 2. Galleon unloads workers by future fish city. Other galleon gets there next turn, and is now protected by a frigate. See, no worries! :)

176/1863--Roose gets Gt Eng. Mao has 13 turns to go on Communism (Sorry, I guess it must have been Democracy?). I trade our world map to DeG for 50g and his map. Novgorod finishes Chouse, starts bank(17). Gandhi feeds us a new caravel plus the old one that escaped.

177/1864--Novgo pop 6, Cowflop 11. Tiny finishes Chouse, starts theatre(13). Our spy steals 72 gold from Delhi! Morefish founded, starts on workboat, which is chooped out by workers. Roose is teching Corporation(6).

178/1865--We get Combustion, start Bio. Broberg finishes its airship, starts on a destroyer(7). Seaside finishes Chouse, starts bank(9).

I've stopped here, planning to take 2 execs by galley over to Copperville and Cowflop and to build a transport in Horse (3 turns) after the bank finishes in 2. The transport will drop off execs in Tiny and elsewhere.

I've redirected most EPs to DeG but we should be able to keep an eye on everyone else's research.


Upload log:
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1854 AD to 1865 AD:

Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) (8.80) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 444, 1854 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Hernan Cortes (Great General) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) (9.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 444, 1854 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (52/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Black Gold has been founded.
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Islam has spread in Black Gold.
Turn 444, 1854 AD: De Gaulle adopts Free Market!

Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) (8.18) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Combat Odds: 99.5%
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 13 (80/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 13 (67/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 13 (54/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Galleon (4.00) vs Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) (5.40)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Combat Odds: 34.2%
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Galleon is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 14 (38/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 14 (24/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Galleon is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Galleon is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Gandhi's Galleon is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Galleon!

Turn 446, 1856 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Moscow.
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Mining Inc has brought +14?-14? to Moscow. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Gandhi has made peace with De Gaulle!

Turn 447, 1857 AD: The borders of Cowflop have expanded!
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Buddhism has spread in Novgorod.
Turn 447, 1857 AD: The borders of Black Gold have expanded!
Turn 447, 1857 AD: John Roebling (Great Engineer) has been born in Lyons (De Gaulle)!

Turn 448, 1858 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Seaside.
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Mining Inc has brought +14?-28? to Seaside. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Ephialtes of Trachis (Great Spy) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 448, 1858 AD: You have discovered Communism!

Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 83 (Horsetropolis) (9.60) vs Barbarian's Galley (2.20)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 449, 1859 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 38 (62/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 38 (24/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 83 (Horsetropolis) is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 38 (0/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 83 (Horsetropolis) has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 449, 1859 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin adopts Free Market!
Turn 449, 1859 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Blaise Pascal (Great Engineer) has been born in Guangzhou (Mao Zedong)!

Turn 450, 1860 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) (9.50) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 450, 1860 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (87/100HP)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (75/100HP)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Broberg-grad celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 451, 1861 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Horsetropolis.
Turn 451, 1861 AD: Mining Inc has brought +14?-10? to Horsetropolis. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 451, 1861 AD: Broberg-grad celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 452, 1862 AD: Charles Augustin de Coulomb (Great Engineer) has been born in Washington (Roosevelt)!

Turn 453, 1863 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Copperville!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) (9.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Your Frigate 79 (Broberg-grad) has destroyed a Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) (8.80) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Your Frigate 88 (Broberg-grad) has destroyed a Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Cowflop will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Novgorod will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Al-Kindi (Great Scientist) has been born in London (Churchill)!

Turn 454, 1864 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Copperville!
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Cowflop has grown to size 11.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Novgorod has grown to size 6.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Upon completing the mission the Spy 91 (Cowflop) has returned safely to Moscow.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Morefish has been founded.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Morefish.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: You have discovered Combustion!
Turn 454, 1864 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Seaside. Work has now begun on Globe Theatre.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Gandhi adopts Free Market!

Turn 455, 1865 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Copperville!
Turn 455, 1865 AD: Roosevelt has 210 gold available for trade.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: Mao Zedong has 90 gold available for trade.

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility
 
With the map trades and theft from Gandhi's treasury I was able to finish Combustion a little earlier than I was expecting and not all the drydocks we want are done yet. In particular, I think I still have Copperville building wealth. We need to think a bit about what ships to build where. I tentatively put Broberg on a destroyer but it should build a transport instead to go pick up an exec from Moscow. I've left a galleon in Morefish to carry over a future settling party to the island to the east and the other is heading back to the homeland to serve as a local ferry (to Silverton and/or linking our east and west along the southern coast) so we can delete the slow galley after it arrives, or keep it to use around Tiny.

The specs in Seaside need a look. At the moment I'm emphasizing hammers to build a bank but it may slow down the Merchant pop too much. Keep in mind that our tech rate will be a little slower than it might appear because of the drain of setting up Mining--70g per city plus the extra maintenance. St Pete will have its market soon, though, and Horsetropolis will have a bank.

I'm thinking we should use the Great Spy with the post-Merchant Seaside GP to start a Golden Age and switch into Nationhood and/or Universal Suffrage when the time comes. This will be at least 50 turns down the road but the timing could be good and I think it's an effective use of late GPs.

I suppose we need to figure out how many destroyers and transports we need. We could delay that decision a little by continuing to build gold in some places :mischief:, as well as finish drydocks and other infrastructure. This would also help with our finances since we have to pay maintenance on units beyond some threshold. Perhaps we could nearly finish some units and then switch to other builds to put off the payments a little longer. We'll certainly need some immediately for spreading execs, defending our shores, and boosting our power, but it would buy a little time and save some money.

How's your schedule looking, BL? It's hard for me to find big enough chunks of time, particularly tonight. Thurs-Sun are looking fairly good, though.

[Edit: Mao is 13 turns from Communism (though that bounces around a bit) and he has a Great Eng, which can finish the Kremlin in one go. Moscow will need to build that (6 or 7 turns) starting soonish.

Note that delaying completion of the Globe in Seaside reduces the artist contamination.]
 
Save looks good. I'm very likely not going to have time today or tomorrow to play, and the long-weekend is currently an unknown. If you can find time whenever, play on, because I don't think I can get to it within the next 48 hours.

Few notes:
Delhi currently isn't being blockaded. It'd be nice to prevent Gandhi from working those sea tiles. I assume a byproduct of killing a caravel somewhere along the way?

Mao is teching Democracy, and as far as I/we can tell no one is researching Communism (De Gaulle might be though because of that Sci Meth trade...). Right now, I don't see any rush in getting Kremlin up unless Mao is switching back and forth between Democracy and Communism.

With Mining still being a killer cost-wise (but not as bad as before) I'd build wealth in the non-vital cities once drydocks are complete. Broberg can build a transport for obvious reason, but I might even have it build wealth to keep the merchant timing afloat. Right now it looks like we're going to be late on finishing off medicine when compared to the GP pop. Silverton once the drydock finishes should be a work boat for the crabs, then switch to wealth. Don't know how many destroyers we'll want / need. I think it'll depend on how big our rivals' navy is and what it's composed of.

On Mining, any thought to expanding it overseas? Sure they'll get the pretty hefty production bonus, but they'd also be whacked with the maintenance costs while giving our Wall Street city some more money. In two turns we'll be at 200% multipliers, so every corp spread is worth 12 gold to us - enough to cause us to come close to breaking even with our city spread - the overseas ones would just be a bonus, and we wouldn't have to spread it there post capture when Moscow is tied up with nuclear weapons of mass destruction. If you agree, I'd start with Roosevelt, since we can easily blitz him off the map in one turn if we have enough troops / nukes to negate the production bonus he'd get. After him I'd spread it to De Gaulle - same deal there, we can wipe him out in a turn or two as long as we're prepared. I'd probably hold on Mao and Churchill though - the war against either is going to be long anyway so the production bonus would end up hurting us.

Where did Mao pop the engineer? If the airship can reach, see if you can light up the city he's in to see if he's still there. It'll give us an indication on whether or not he has the capability to rush wonders. We can also ship the Great Spy over to the main continent to get a rough idea on troop count and concentration as soon as we have an available transport.
 
OK, I'll play when I can until I hear otherwise.

I think I was healing our two frigates by Delhi. In general, yes, I've had one blockading. If Gandhi will stop sending out caravels to kill I'd like to bombard. :)

Mao's Gt Eng was in Guangzhou. I'll see if I can spy him during the next airship pass up there; not sure where that city is. Sorry if I had some eye-to-hand slip there on Democ vs Communism. In any case, we can see everybody's research now but DeG's so we'll have plenty of warning, and I'll wait on the Kremlin.

Yeah, I like the building gold idea after other infra is up. Our tech rate needs to be higher. I'll put Silverton on the workboat after drydock.

I'm not keen on spreading Mining to the AIs, at least not yet, since I worry about their hammers. I'm also still hoping that our war will be so quick there will be little time to build anything in the captured cities. Can we hold off for now and think about it some more?

We can already see quite a lot with the airships. Roosevelt could easily take a Mao city or two with his rifles.
 
Our overall conquest isn't going to be a 20 turn affair. We're going to be limited in three areas - nuke production, city capture rate, then the rebasing of new nukes, getting garrison units to the newly captured cities, then moving our stack to threaten other cities. Plus we may (read: will) have to deal with counter-attacks, especially versus Mao and Churchill, since it's highly likely our initial nuking of them won't hit their SoD. So yes, it's very likely our first cities captured outside of Delhi and Bombay will be in position to build stuff for a substantial amount of time.

Yes, they'd get the production bonus, but they have roughly the same issues as us when it comes to unit upkeep and corp maintenance. Yes, they could build more units, but they'd have to pay for them as well somehow. With Roosevelt only having 5 cities, 3 of which are decent, his income isn't that high from cottages or whatever, so the likelihood of him being able to afford the corp and use the hammers to make even more units to great effect is minimal. Especially with Roosevelt, I see us nuking all of his cities in one turn with a simultaneous capture afterward, so whatever stack he has cooped up in his cities are going to be obliterated anyway.
 
OK, after refreshing my corporate understanding with this I'll buy it. I'll start by seeding the biggest cities of Roose and DeG and hope they spread. We'll be busy spreading our own execs for awhile anyway. We can't spread to Mao and Churchill because they're still in Merc'lism.

I wish we had more time/people to try out war strategies, but I'm thinking we can reduce the threat of counterstrikes by nuking interior cities twice to kill all their units, even if we can't immediately occupy them. And taking out complete civs at one go will help with war weariness, emancipation demands, nuking villainy, and motherland unhappiness.
 
We'll see how many nukes we have and what the production time table is for each new one. I'm hesitant on burning a second nuke when a half dozen cossacks can do the same amount of damage after the fist nuke. Plus every time we nuke a city, every building in the city goes through a nuke check to see if it survives. Nuking it twice will lessen the chance of capturing any useful infrastructure.
 
Yeah, but can they get to the city the same turn to kill every unit? In any case, the fraction of interior cities is fairly small. One trick we might think about is giving mounted units the Flanking1 and then Sentry promos right off the bat so they can be better at unfogging interiors the same turn they enter a captured coastal city.
 
We'll cross the nuke bridge when we get there. I just don't think we'll have that many nukes to spare to wipe out the entire stack in a city, that's all. If you think you can play tomorrow, great, do that, otherwise let me know and I might be able to squeeze a few turns it.

And while I seriously hope this isn't an issue, but BLubmuz what exactly are you doing looking at my public profile? A pm response would be nice...
 
Played 7 turns--log to follow. All is going well and we have Bio. Medicine in around 8 taking into account the cost of spreading Mining around.
----------------------

178/1865--I count 1 coal and 1 gold for DeG and 1 iron for Roose. Yes, I think Mining will drain their economies very nicely. :) Currently Churchill has 12 cities, DeG 6, Roose 5, Mao 10, Gandhi 2 = 35 AI cities excluding barbs. There at least semi-decent sites for around 6 more.

Mining spread to Silverton (71g, -8gpt). Guangzhou is too far north for our airship to see. I send our successful spy toward Bombay to try again on stealing gold. Copperville switches from wealth to drydock(3). Our fully healed frigate is once again blockading Delhi. Broberg starts transport(4).

179/1866--Tiny grows to 12. Silverton finishes drydock, starts workboat(1) for southern crabs. DeG has a settler in Rheims (+3 Lbows), and 2 galleons, 2 cats, 2Lbows, 1 musket in Circassian. Washington has 2 galleons, 1 cannon, 5 rifles. I switch Tiny's engineer to an artist--culture pop now in 9 turns instead of 41. Moscow continues to spit out execs at 1 per turn.

180/1867--St Pete finishes market, starts levee(6). Silverton finishes workboat, starts harbor(3--gives +3 commerce from trade routes and +3 health it may need later). Horse finishes bank, starts transport(3). Spy's 1st turn in Bombay--80g available. I put all EPs on DeG for this turn.

181/1868--Mao and Churchill found new cities (37 total); I don't see where yet. Copperville finishes drydock, builds gold. Mining spread to Cowflop and Copperville. Cowflop has a fair amount of commerce (base 28) so I switch from wealth to a bank(8). French Circassian now has 2 settlers.

182/1869--Broberg finishes transport, starts another(4). Circassian is now minus one settler. I put 3 execs on a galleon; it will drop off in Tiny and America next turn, and Roose will discover Corporation next turn. He'll give me 140 gold and his map for saving him that turn so I take it (although he's worst enemy of Mao). I delete our southern galley to save 2 gpt.

183/1870--Silverton finishes harbor, builds gold (35gpt). Horse finishes transport, starts a destroyer(5) to explore faster and deal with anything that comes up. Morefish finishes workboat, starts another. I've been running an artist part time to pop the borders--will take 2 more turns. For jollies I've been bombarding Delhi--now down to 0%. Several execs boards ships to head east. Mining spreads to Broberg. I have Moscow build wealth for 1 turn so we can finish Bio next turn--need to switch back to execs after that.

184/1871--We have Bio. Breakeven is around 72% giving us Medicine in 7. Mining spread to Tiny.

I'm not sure what to do with the 3 workers in Morefish--all work done. Now that we have Bio we have more food in Moscow, St Pete, Copperville, and Cowflop. I haven't adjusted tile usage yet. I still don't know where those new English and Chinese cities are! And Churchill still won't talk to us.
 

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  • Stalin AD-1871.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Looked at the save, things look pretty good. Mao did not settle overseas - the eleven cities he has are all on the mainland. In fact the city in question is just to the northwest of Beijing. Churchill settled his new city on the big sugar island.

My initial micro thoughts with Biology in: Remove the Ivory from St. Pete and work the farmed RS plain tile. In Seaside with medicine due in pretty soon, remove the two mine tiles and replace them with 2 merchants. Speeds the GP pop up by two turns and only subtracts one turn from the Bank. Copperville should stop working the RS furs and instead work the RS tundra far for an extra 2 food. For Morefish, once the borders pop remove the artist and work the two seafood tiles. At pop 3, have the new pop work the workshop to speed the next work boat out. We want at least 5 pop before we start on the settler, so it could build wealth after all three seafood tiles are hooked up until pop 5. I assume one of the three mining execs on the transport is on it's way to Morefish? That would help the settler production big time as well. You could send the workers over to the marble island to road it up (can't RR unfortunately), but they have nothing better to do and it'd save us some movement later.

For the Mining spread, I noticed two things. One, we're currently trading away three sources of Mining Inc metals to Roosevelt and Mao. Both of those deals need to be canceled asap - that's 4.5 base hammers we're trading away for almost no return. I can't believe we missed this... We should also unload one of the mining execs now to spread in New York the following turn. By doing so, we'd save having to detour into the city to cause the spread. The transport could then sail into Washington where a second exec could spread it there. That leaves one for Morefish. We can't spread it in Mao (mercantilism) or Churchill (he's still mad at us for something happened almost 300 years ago...), so the two in Roosevelt's territory is a free 24 GPT for us. Wow, that's a lot for not a whole lot of investment... I think De Gaulle should get a taste of Mining Inc too, don't you agree? Don't forget to send one to Black Gold as well - if we could get some culture flowing (either via buildings or just building culture) we could nab another two seafood resources.
 
St Pete: ivory --> farmed RS plains
Seaside: 2 mines --> 2 mers
Copper: RS fur --> RS tundra fur
Morefish: obvious stuff
Cancel trades where we're giving away metals.

I wasn't sure what to do with the 3 execs on the transport but was thinking of dropping them all in America and heading back home to pick up more for our 3 island cities. This would delay Mining in Morefish, though. I guess I'll do as you suggested--2 in America, continue to Morefish. Maybe I'll switch Horse to another transport that can carry the next round of execs (and an Mgun for the new city east of Morefish). I'll use the galleon to take an exec to Black Gold when I can. We're making decent cultural progress on the barb fish as it is but can do a lot better with more hammers. Tiny will pop its borders soon to hasten our theft of Roose's seafood.

Yes, I'm very keen on spreading Mining to DeG ASAP. D'oh! on trading away our metals! :hammer2: I'll fix immediately. Cool about stealing Gandhi's money with our spy, huh? :) I'll just keep doing that, though we may need to top up our EPs on him. We should be able to see DeG's research in roughly 10 turns.

Here are the techs we'd like with normal speed beakers and a rough estimate number of turns in (#/#), where I'm trying to take into account the costs and then benefits of spreading Mining, eventually switching from building gold to building weapons, assuming one more Golden Age, etc. I hope/think I'm a little on the pessimistic side. The first group contains techs we'd like at some undetermined time; Rifling might go in there, too.

MilSci (2000/4)
MilTrad (2000/4)
Democracy (2800/4)

Medicine (4500/9)
Electricity (4500/8)
Radio (6000/9) Golden Age start?
Fission (5500/8)
Rifling (2400/4)
Artillery (4000/7)
Rocketry (5000/8)
Assembly Line (5000/8)
Ecology (5500/8)

I'm hoping we could trade Bio for a couple in the first group plus Rifling. If so, I'd guess we'll be able to build nukes around 52 turns from now (turn 236, year 1923). When do we want to start getting serious about building units? I'd like to have maybe 3 destroyers, 3 transports, and some more Mguns in the medium term, but only one or two cities need to work on those. The Mguns will beef up our homeland defenses, as well as our vulnerable island cities. Eventually we'll use them to hold captured cities. Otherwise I think we should focus mostly on the economy for now (Chouses, some banks where appropriate, and building gold in lots of places) and start building lots of units after getting Radio. At some point, maybe after Fission (definitely after Rifling ;)) and preferably during a Golden Age, we'll want to switch to Nationhood to start drafting rifles (which take only 2 pop, rather than 3 for infantry). We can get 40 in 20 turns, mostly from Seaside and Morefish.

Sushi plan: I haven't thought about this as much as you but we'll need some more health buildings in places like Moscow and Seaside. Spread there plus St Pete (to run more merchants), and Morefish (to become a huge Nationhood drafting machine). Maybe Silverton? Elsewhere?
 
I'm not 100% certain we'll need to draft very much. The bulk of our forces are going to be cossacks (which iirc can't be drafted) and then we only need a handful of units to act as garrisons, not an entire army. The +50% hammer bonus in Moscow is significant with all of the multipliers we have and losing it would make a pretty significant difference in our nuke production.

Slight error above in your tile switch chart. Copperville stops working a RS fur tile and starts working a RS tundra farm (it's the tile 1 S of the furs iirc).

We don't need Radio so soon, unless you were thinking of building one of the radio wonders (Eiffel Tower, Cristo Redentor, Rock 'N Roll). I don't think we'll need a whole ton of submarines, though I do need to check to see if nukes can be rebased to them our if they have to be in port and loaded onto them.

On spreading Sid's: St. Pete will get it upon it's founding, then to Moscow so it can build the execs, then Seaside for certain then onto Broberg so the city can have enough food to work the hill and plains tile once Delhi falls. Elsewhere, I'd like to see Sid's go in just about every domestic city we have since in my 2 years of being on the forums I've never seen an article on where too much food was a bad thing. We do not want to spread Sid's overseas - extra food in the AI means more pop, more pop means more specs, tiles worked, etc, and more pop also means a longer time to pacify said city. We'll also have to cancel the remainder of our deals with the AI when Sushi comes in, as we're still trading a good bulk of our seafood sources away.

Put Military Tradition in the 'must tech' category, since we're going to need Cossacks to do the capturing outside of nukes. If we can't trade for it, we'll have to slip it in post Rifling to get our invasion force built.

Another thing which crossed my mind is I vaguely remember the possibility for other AI's to declare war on you if you nuked someone they liked. In my offline games I recall other AI's declaring on me for nuking another civ. We should look into this - if this is true we'll need to keep a handful of destroyers at home to sink any would-be invaders.
 
How about this for teching (at least for the next couple techs):

* = try to trade for these with something innocuous

Medicine (4500/9)
Electricity (4500/8)
Fission (5500/8)
*Rifling (2400/4)
*Democracy (2800/4)
*MilTrad (2000/4)
*MilSci (2000/4)
Artillery (4000/7)
Rocketry (5000/8)
Radio (6000/9)
Assembly Line (5000/8)
Ecology (5500/8)

I hadn't thought much about the Radio wonders but now that you mention it, Eiffel + Rock 'n' Roll might be very useful for happiness and trade. Well, Moscow is going to be busy for awhile cranking out execs so no rush to decide.

Sure, we need Cossacks, but we also need warm bodies to hold the cities we capture. Remember, there are going to be around 40 of them and we don't want to waste Cossacks for that. I'm not sure how well Sushi, specialists, and drafting will work together in Seaside, which would be the big pump--there will obviously be some compromises on the number of specialists we can run, but we'll likely be pushing the health limit anyway-- but each drafted rifle is worth about 150 hammers. What's the Bureau bonus worth in Moscow? Maybe 25 hammers (and some gold) per turn? We could at least run Nationhood for the 12 turns of a Golden Age, giving us up to 24 rifles at 2 per turn (300 hammers' worth per turn!). That's a lot of nearly free hammers, plus 25% more EPs and +2 happy from barracks. You might like it when you try it. ;)
 
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