SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[Capt Buttkick]

I think you're making a lot of sense. If we go for Philosophy, then we can choose Map Making, prolly. Then research Lit.? Of course, if we're going to abandon early research, Lit is for trading, for now.

I think if we're shutting down research after Philo, maybe just go for Lit from Philo? The AI won't be far away from Maps then, which could reduce its trade value if many AIs are on the Maps path.
I've often had success with going Philo --> CoL and then min on Rep. Even if we trade away Philo and CoL, the AI will take ages to get to Rep. Agreed, they usually get it a few turns before I do, but even if we can't trade it away, we'll have it at app. the same time as the AI and with a small investment.

I agree. But we should watch CA2 carefully. As soon as someone else gets it, we need to trade for warmongering techs in order to get something for it.

I was just going to edit my previous post with something to this effected when I noticed you had posted.

 

[leif erikson]

I think if we're shutting down research after Philo, maybe just go for Lit from Philo? The AI won't be far away from Maps then, which could reduce its trade value if many AIs are on the Maps path.
I've often had success with going Philo --> CoL and then min on Rep. Even if we trade away Philo and CoL, the AI will take ages to get to Rep. Agreed, they usually get it a few turns before I do, but even if we can't trade it away, we'll have it at app. the same time as the AI and with a small investment.

Philo. => CoL is not a bad option, especially if we are not going to self-research for awhile. After Republic, do you then head for Lit.? I have a feeling we may still be the first to it if we go that route, what do you think?

I was just going to edit my previous post with something to this effected when I noticed you had posted.

Got to be quick to beat old Leif in the morning!!
(Well, your afternoon, isn't it?)

 

[leif erikson]

I was just poking around in the game. I noticed a couple of things. We have almost completed the curcuit of our land mass. Soon, I think we should take the risk of sending a Curragh over the ocean. There is a penninsula north of Rotterdam that I think would make a good starting point for a Curragh going east, seeking the Barb Nation. Also, to our west, the penninsula there might be a good place to start a Curragh west. The area in blackness is quite large.

We have met all the civs in the game. The Incas are leading the tech race with The Wheel, Iron Working, Mysticism and Mathematics. Second is Maya (The Wheel, IW and Myst) and the Sumeria (The Wheel, Myst and Math). Last is The Byzantines and The Dutch with The Wheel and Myst. This does give us some trading opportunities, should we come up with anything to trade?

Good luck Scout. Watch your 6 buddy!!

EDIT - CA2 says that the Barb Nation has changed governments to Barbarism.
CA2 also lists the Barbarians traits as Militaritic, of course, and Seafaring. I wonder if their Galleys can traverse Ocean tiles?

 

[leif erikson]

Sorry, triple post.

I just received a PM from Alan. It looks as though one of the teams is going to break up and Alan has asked if one of the players could join us. His nick is Kulko. Just in case you are wondering, he was not the reason for the breakup. He is simply wanting to play.

I have no problem with it as Capt has said he may be getting mighty busy towards the end of the game. However, I think it is up to the team as you will all have to accept him. Please post your thoughts as I promised Alan an answer by morning, his time. Thanks.

 

[DJMGator13]

@Gator - Did you plan to settle on the spot where the settler currently stands. It looks like a pretty good spot to me.

Yes I did, but since it was the last turn I waited to see if the team liked it. The settler and warrior can still move or settle in the preturn. I picked it because it is on the river, has a flood plain and more sheep when it expands.

Is it me or is there a lack of luxury resources? I don't remember seeing many.

Curragh2 could turn around and head back to the western launching point and try a run to the west. Warrior1 can finish clearing the fog to our SE.

Good luck Scout.

 

[scoutsout]

Okay... this is my 'got it'. Sounds like the consensus of the team is a Republic Slingshot. Normally... I'd be squeamish... but I happen to know 'gator is a first rate bean counter.

As for Kulko joining our team... I'm not sure... if we had a roster of 5 it wouldn't bother me a bit... but with 6 on board already, I wonder. As a player, I have no objection to playing alongside Kulko...though Kulko is an "unknown quantity" to me.

Any sword worth having will cut both ways. I have no strong opinion either way. Hopefully Kulko knows how to swing a sword in more than one direction.

I'll have a look at the game, and if I'm feelin' froggy, I'll jump in and play it tonight.

 

[leif erikson]

As for Kulko joining our team... I'm not sure... if we had a roster of 5 it wouldn't bother me a bit... but with 6 on board already, I wonder. As a player, I have no objection to playing alongside Kulko...though Kulko is an "unknown quantity" to me.

Any sword worth having will cut both ways. I have no strong opinion either way. Hopefully Kulko knows how to swing a sword in more than one direction.

This may have solved itself. I'm still waiting to hear from Alan. Thanks.

I'll have a look at the game, and if I'm feelin' froggy, I'll jump in and play it tonight.

Good luck and watch out for those damned Barb Theives!

 

[Capt Buttkick]

It's ok for me to have Kulko on the team, unknown capacity or not. But then, I'm not in the sgotm to win it (although I always want to try to do that, while at it ).

@ scout: I think we're debating to and fro whether to go Philo --> CoL --> Rep or CoL --> Philo --> Rep
The latter is much more of a gamble, but will pay off a lot more if we make it. I'm uncertain we can make it in this game, though. I've never made the slingshot on pangea on Emp and I think this game resembles pangea techwise.

 

[AlanH]

Hi guys. It looks like we've stabilised Team Wotan, and Kulko will not be available. Sorry for the false alarm.

 

[leif erikson]

Hi guys. It looks like we've stabilised Team Wotan, and Kulko will not be available. Sorry for the false alarm.

I'm glad to hear they will stay together. Thanks for the post.

 

[WillowBrook]

Greetings from Chicago!

I'm mostly moved in (well, all my stuff is here; organizing it is a different matter), and using some neighbor's unsecured wireless network. So it looks like I can take my time figuring out what commercial service to fork over the big bucks to.

Enjoying the discussion, guys!
Good luck, Scout!

 

[scoutsout]

Okay... sorry I didn't get this played last night. I'll play it shortly... gotta go download it again...as now I'm on another computer in The Other City.

I'm also up in... another. Feast mode.

 

[Mistfit]

Take your time scout as I cannot play until tomorrow night.

Good luck I look forward to seeing what new and exciting things "the Big G" (tm) has thrown our way.

 

[scoutsout]

Turn 1 (Turn 0?)/2150 BC - a mid-turn save. Founding York on the spot takes us from +0gpt to +5gpt, Writing in 3 instead of 4 turns. Queue up a warrior. Ratchet Science up to 60% to get Writing in 2 turns. Warrior #2 heads north to bust a little fog.

IBT - our worker has finished a mine.

Turn 2/2110 BC - Science to 50%, Writing next turn. Warrior2 heads north to bust a little fog from a hill. I do a weed move with Curraugh2... forgot differential naval movement is on, and I go out to sea 1 tile, and back to coast 1 tile away. Warrior 1 heads north... looking for a place to trespass on Byzantine lands. Okay... differential naval movement is NOT on, and I hit a key to move the other curraugh "one more", and accidentally moved a worker.

Under the GOTM rules as I understand them, reloading due to a mis-click is NOT a violation of the letter or spirit of the rules. So I re-load, and get back to the game. (Why are the naval movement ratings of curraughs showing "5", when in fact they are "2" move units? Unnecessary, IMHO)

Worker 1 roads, worker 2 heads to the BG being worked by York.

IBT - Writing comes in, queue up Code of Laws. Due in 30 turns at +1gpt.

London equips a settler, queue up another.

Turn 3/2070 BC Sail our curraugh to circumnavigate the continent in the south. Worker2 starts roading the BG at York. Settler heads out in a direction that's going to put a town right in the face of the Inca, but that's where the best land is. London is size 4... so I queue up a warrior to let the city grow a bit. Take research to 80% to see if I can't shave a few turns off the CoL cycle.

Then I look at CRPMapStat. Inca and Netherlands already have Writing. It looks like they got it this turn too. This changes things... time to consult with the team.

Grab a screenshot:

...and take stock of our trading position:

• Maya (up Wheel, Iron, Myst) will trade Iron or Myst for Writing.
• Sumeria (up Wheel, Myst, Mathematics) will trade us Math for Writing +1g +1gpt. Might be a n-fer in there...
• Byzantines have only Wheel and Myst.

My $0.02: Do the deal with Sumeria for Math, and try to get Maya to trade Iron... then try to get The Wheel and Mysticism from Byzantines.

The trading part is easy...the hard part is...what do we research next?

Here's my $0.02: We're locked in a war with the Barbarian Nation. I'm not sure Republic is going to be durable enough for this game. We should seriously consider beelining for Monarchy if we pick up Mysticism in this round of trading. Is it possible Polytheism is known? I bet Byzantines are working on it.

I'll finish this up tomorrow night.

 

[leif erikson]

The trading part is easy...the hard part is...what do we research next?

Here's my $0.02: We're locked in a war with the Barbarian Nation. I'm not sure Republic is going to be durable enough for this game. We should seriously consider beelining for Monarchy if we pick up Mysticism in this round of trading. Is it possible Polytheism is known? I bet Byzantines are working on it.

Yup, I think you have the trading part correct.

We have found that Republic is satisfactory, even at war. We may have to switch to Monarchy later depending on the number of lux we are able to pick up, but with Marketplaces, things are generally tolerable. As I'm sure you know, research rates under Republic are generally higher. Even if we plan to go zero research and purchae or take techs by pointy stick, Republic is still preferable, imho. We'll see what the others think.

We played most of last game, AW with India, in Republic.

Under the GOTM rules as I understand them, reloading due to a mis-click is NOT a violation of the letter or spirit of the rules. So I re-load, and get back to the game. (Why are the naval movement ratings of curraughs showing "5", when in fact they are "2" move units? Unnecessary, IMHO)

As I understand it, reloading for misclicks is generally not allowed. I think we should avoid reloading for mis-clicks in future. Thank you for stating that it was done. Other team member comments?

BTW - What borders pack did you download, I like them. I'm currently using Bluebox's wider border, but yours stand out better than mine.

EDIT - The Maintenance Thread opening post says that standard SGOTM rules apply except the 3 listed. Differential Naval Movement is a standard mod for SGOTM, so I believe it is on. Iirc, it costs 3 to move in coastal waters, 2 to move in sea tiles and 1 to move in ocean tiles. So with 5, we should get 2 coast tiles per turn, 3 sea tiles and 5 ocean tiles.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I have no trouble with reloading due to misclicks. I have had my kids skinny-fingering () a couple of gotms and usually reload.

Don't know if this is clearer than what leif posted, but:
Differential Naval movement is on. Moving in coastal squares costs 3 mps, sea 2 mps and ocean 1 mp. So if you're on the ocean, you can move 5 squares with a curragh. While scouting the coast line, this should be used to our advantage so we move twice at sea and then end our turn on a coast tile.

I think we should divert to Philo --> CoL --> min on Rep.
Republic is definitely playable, espescially if the barbs are on another island that we won't reach for some time yet.

 

[scoutsout]

On the re-load, it's documented. If AlanH wants to stamp my meal card "No Doughnuts Allowed", it's his call. 'nuff said.

On the government research, if the team wants to go Republic, fine by me. If one more player agrees, I'll call it a consensus and play it that way. ...and if we are going for Republic, then Philo->CoL makes sense.

I would just feel more comfortable if we'd found a few more luxuries. I'll look at the map carefully to see if there are any.

 

[AlanH]

Cracker had a surprisingly (to me) relaxed attitude to reloading for misclicks, and you may be recalling his statements.

More recent pronouncements by ainwood, echoed by me, take the view that replaying is not permitted ... period. This is based on the problem of determining when a misclick was *really* a misclick. 'Oh! No, I didn't *really* intend that unit to attack that city, or that settler to walk into that barb's path'.

Couple that with the high numbers of new players we have been dealing with since Cracker's time, with C3C and Civ4 generating new interest in the competitions, and we felt we had to take a harder line. So genuine misclicks are unfortunate, but you should live with them, learn to recover from them, and be more careful in future.

My 2¢.

 

[DJMGator13]

Research wise I think I'd head to Phil at top speed. The free tech woild be nice but won't break us if we miss it. We need to claim a few more city sites and then start building units if we are going to conquer our continent.

 

[scoutsout]

@AlanH: I will be more careful in the future. I apologize. And I'll also dig up something on differential naval movement to figure out how 5=2 whether sailing in sea or coast.

@'gator: Hard burn on Philosophy. Got it. We can decide on CoL->Republic after my turns.