SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Udey1
Prince
Hey, checking in before I head off to class, Good plans all around, sorry I can't be more help right now.
That's okay, thanks for stopping by!
The more and I toy with the plans, I lean for settler now with something close to Duckweed's proposition.
We land Pyramids in the 1400s (depending on whipping/chopping) which *should* be early enough, depending on TGW/SH dates. We also get a good amount of cash from SH+TGW which helps speed research a lot for the early techs... and even Aesthetics+Literature. Fish+Pig spawns first GS and we can even arrange a second GS from it before Delhi's first GP.
Waiting for everyone's "final-ish" input before I start collecting info in the same post.
The more and I toy with the plans, I lean for settler now with something close to Duckweed's proposition.
We land Pyramids in the 1400s (depending on whipping/chopping) which *should* be early enough, depending on TGW/SH dates. We also get a good amount of cash from SH+TGW which helps speed research a lot for the early techs... and even Aesthetics+Literature. Fish+Pig spawns first GS and we can even arrange a second GS from it before Delhi's first GP.
Waiting for everyone's "final-ish" input before I start collecting info in the same post.
One concern:
Do we manage Pyramids in the 1400s if we delay starting masonry untill after T80? In order for me to get it done T102 I need to finish Masonry T78 (4 turns to improve stone with 3 workers) (with borders expanded in Bombay by then) to start Pyramids T82-83.. Roughly a 19turn build give or take a turn (for me).
We basically need Masonry(?) + Quarry(4) + Pyramids(18-19) in ~23-25 turns
Do we manage Pyramids in the 1400s if we delay starting masonry untill after T80? In order for me to get it done T102 I need to finish Masonry T78 (4 turns to improve stone with 3 workers) (with borders expanded in Bombay by then) to start Pyramids T82-83.. Roughly a 19turn build give or take a turn (for me).
We basically need Masonry(?) + Quarry(4) + Pyramids(18-19) in ~23-25 turns
I went Poly>PH>AH>Writing>Masonry>Fishing>Pottery. All the forests in Delhi were pre-chopped so I only needed 1 worker to chop them in time. Have at least 2 whips (Confu temple is 1 turn of building then whipping gives 100+ towards Pyramids) landed them in 1425. Could be earlier if I had a second worker chopping in Delhi but I had sent two of them to the pig+fish city to get it online (pasture+chop 2 workboats).
dingding
Prince
I have a little concern.
I guess the first problem post-Oracle will still be commerce. We can solve it by rushing a GM/GP to settle in the city, or a GM for trade mission.
I think of a different possibility: research pottery instead of AH, settle the third city in the FP and cottage it early.
I mean, the cow-pig city or 3-clams city will certainly be great GP farms, but it's unnecessary (or even harmful) to work them early, before infrastructure (Granary, lighthouse, Library) is finished and pop is grown. early SE in these cities harm the growth, but CE in the FP city won't.
In my plan, after the Oracle (t80), Delhi can be used for a GP farm to rush the first GP (GS or GM, I prefer the second one; to be discussed) then concentrated on wonders and settlers, Bombay used for worker-spamming and the 3rd city for CE. 4th and 5th city can be GP farms or blocking cities.
How do you guys think of this plan?
I guess the first problem post-Oracle will still be commerce. We can solve it by rushing a GM/GP to settle in the city, or a GM for trade mission.
I think of a different possibility: research pottery instead of AH, settle the third city in the FP and cottage it early.
I mean, the cow-pig city or 3-clams city will certainly be great GP farms, but it's unnecessary (or even harmful) to work them early, before infrastructure (Granary, lighthouse, Library) is finished and pop is grown. early SE in these cities harm the growth, but CE in the FP city won't.
In my plan, after the Oracle (t80), Delhi can be used for a GP farm to rush the first GP (GS or GM, I prefer the second one; to be discussed) then concentrated on wonders and settlers, Bombay used for worker-spamming and the 3rd city for CE. 4th and 5th city can be GP farms or blocking cities.
How do you guys think of this plan?
It could certainly work, I'll try it to see how it feels until ~t100 i.e. Pyramids in.
I was mostly counting on failure gold to compensate lack of commerce to finish necessary techs/infra before switching to specialists.
Here's an idea: why don't we agree to play a short round for exploration and re-evaluate? If there's another food by the flood plains and/or gems/gold, it would make even more sense to settle there.
Basically, I think we all agree on TW next, settler next and improve mine [need to clarify Delhi micro for t36-t38]? That's about 10 turns which should be enough to finish exploration or almost.
I was mostly counting on failure gold to compensate lack of commerce to finish necessary techs/infra before switching to specialists.
Here's an idea: why don't we agree to play a short round for exploration and re-evaluate? If there's another food by the flood plains and/or gems/gold, it would make even more sense to settle there.
Basically, I think we all agree on TW next, settler next and improve mine [need to clarify Delhi micro for t36-t38]? That's about 10 turns which should be enough to finish exploration or almost.
dingding
Prince
@ kossin:
A try of around 10 turns will certainly be good. Next tech is TW, next unit is settler, there will be no problem. Worker movement is quite simple as well.
I'm curious about the rest of land indeed.
PS. According to the test game's rhythm, cash from WE will come very late so we can't benefice from it at the early stage. I doubt if it's necessary to rush mids by 1400BC as well, let's see the year of TGW.
A try of around 10 turns will certainly be good. Next tech is TW, next unit is settler, there will be no problem. Worker movement is quite simple as well.
I'm curious about the rest of land indeed.
PS. According to the test game's rhythm, cash from WE will come very late so we can't benefice from it at the early stage. I doubt if it's necessary to rush mids by 1400BC as well, let's see the year of TGW.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
I agree this should definitely be considered, yes.
That takes us back to exploration matters : the tech after PH would depend on what 3rd city we settle, i.e. what opportunities the map offers us.
There's a possibility that gold (as in gold mines) is lying around the FP river... If there is --> Pottery is a clear choice. We should then even reconsider the 2nd city's location.
If there isn't, things will be a bit tougher to decide.
FP cottages are great but the infra is slow going. If we settle a cottage city now (we'll need some), we will still need Fishing/AH later (and even Sailing as Bugg mentionned, but Sailing can wait a bit).
Maybe we could play until PH is done or 1st settler is produced and decide afterwards ? I don't see your detailed plans super different for the first turns (we'll mine that silver, right ?!). Let's just optimize commerce for that time. 15-20 turns of exploration will give us great hints (keep the warriors alive !
).Knowledge makes enlightened decisions.
Otherwise, if we need to decide before playing the set,
I think I prefer AH before Writing, because I'm not the "all-in" kind of player.
I also would like failure cash rather than extra warriors (no need to fogbust the north and east).
Med vs Poly. No preference. Both have their share of advantages and I never know how to decide.
Regarding the tech tree, once Masonry is in, I'd do something like :
Alphabet --> Litterature (we want the Great Lib, right ?) --> CS --> Philo.
If we don't have Meditation, I'd rather have it "early" (before CS) for Monasteries. Regarding Monotheism, dunno... It's powerful and costly. But we're Spiritual, so surely there's a way to revolt in and out. If we want it, it'd be better before Litterature so we can reduce wonder costs and set up our main cities infra.
Zara will trade Iron Working, Sailing, Maths, Currency, etc. Hopefully we'll meet someone else.
EDIT :
Totally my mindset.Kossin said:
dingding
Prince
Agree on a serveral-turn try (till TW, maybe more?). Vote for it guys if you agree.
It's Bug's turn.
It's Bug's turn.
3 votes in favor of a short set, 1 more and we are set. That leaves Duckweed, Udey1 and Bugg123.
I would suggest 10 turns t36-t45 (TW is finished on t45 ).
Worker micro: chop plains+cancel, farm+cancel, mine silver, go back to plains forest takes exactly 9 turns so on the 10th turn we can decide on chop/road
Delhi micro: 1 more turn on 1F2H, on t37 switch to silver hill. Switching right now delays the settler 1 turn and doesn't make TW come any sooner.
I believe that should be sufficient time to finish exploring the land west. We can plan a bit more from there and Bugg can finish his 5 more turns until t50/51 (50 for even numbers?).
I would suggest 10 turns t36-t45 (TW is finished on t45 ).
Worker micro: chop plains+cancel, farm+cancel, mine silver, go back to plains forest takes exactly 9 turns so on the 10th turn we can decide on chop/road
Delhi micro: 1 more turn on 1F2H, on t37 switch to silver hill. Switching right now delays the settler 1 turn and doesn't make TW come any sooner.
I believe that should be sufficient time to finish exploring the land west. We can plan a bit more from there and Bugg can finish his 5 more turns until t50/51 (50 for even numbers?).
I think that sounds like a good plan. We all aggree on settler first and TW, anyways, right?
Keeping those warriors alive could be challenging. I'm known to lose quite a few <10% battles..
Anyways.. regarding warriors (before I make my plan). 1st warrior tries to evade lions. I don't know about your testgames, but in mine I would allways lose to the 2nd lion, while somehow allways stay at full health if I took them on 1 at a time. (so move 1st warrior NE, NW (into forest) and hopefully one lion follows us.
2nd Warrior moves north along the coast heading for forests? (Or is there a potential lion in there that I should worry about?).
3rd warrior could go clean up exploration west and head towards copper to bust the most likely 2nd site.
Other option is 2nd warrior SE, then back up NW, NW (could be ok if there's a lion just outside our vision up there).. leaving warrior3 to go straight for fogbust duties by copper.
I'll see how the land looks, but dingding mentioned he'd like the warriors back in original position.
Also.. do I halt if a warrior dies, or just keep going?
Keeping those warriors alive could be challenging. I'm known to lose quite a few <10% battles..
Anyways.. regarding warriors (before I make my plan). 1st warrior tries to evade lions. I don't know about your testgames, but in mine I would allways lose to the 2nd lion, while somehow allways stay at full health if I took them on 1 at a time. (so move 1st warrior NE, NW (into forest) and hopefully one lion follows us.
2nd Warrior moves north along the coast heading for forests? (Or is there a potential lion in there that I should worry about?).
3rd warrior could go clean up exploration west and head towards copper to bust the most likely 2nd site.
Other option is 2nd warrior SE, then back up NW, NW (could be ok if there's a lion just outside our vision up there).. leaving warrior3 to go straight for fogbust duties by copper.
I'll see how the land looks, but dingding mentioned he'd like the warriors back in original position.
Also.. do I halt if a warrior dies, or just keep going?
1st warrior: definitely move him around to get 1 lion at a time
2nd warrior: dunno, only Duckweed would know if a lion is about, going further north/west is good to explore, there shouldn't be much more to see anyway
3rd: unless something spectacular shows up west, somewhere around the copper is good yes.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
I'm fine with a short set next, although I think if we can decide now to go for Poly next, there's not many things to be discussed before 3rd settler is out.
2nd warrior should move SE 1st to clear the southern coast so that we don't miss any seafood there. You don't know how far is the western coast, could be snaky.
Bugg123, Could you post the final detailed plan?
2nd warrior should move SE 1st to clear the southern coast so that we don't miss any seafood there. You don't know how far is the western coast, could be snaky.
Bugg123, Could you post the final detailed plan?
I agree with immediate hiring 3 or 4 scientists in Delhi to get the 1st GP in 7 turn. We can take very good benefit from either a GPriest or a GS.
I won't delayed AH after Pottery for a few reasons:
1. To locate horse and avoid settling on horse.
2. The SW Pig/Cow/Fish seems more appealing to me as 3rd city.
3. Representation scientists is much better than cottages or hamlets even without counting the GPP.
TW>Poly is longer than 15 turns, even TW>Medi is longer.
10 more turns will give us a much better idea how to settle the land, how many settlers we need and what techs to prioritize. It will also make testing more relevant, as the further we test ahead, the less reliable the results are.
We already know there are 2 Zealots in the game, one that pursues Buddhism [Izzy, Justinian, Charlemagne, HC, Monte*, Pacal*] and another Hinduism [Saladin, Pacal*, Monte*]. Could also be Brennus/Boudi (doubt it)/Wang Kon... going to run some tests to get a better idea. *is for leaders that tend to pick one or the other religion. EDIT: Brennus and Boudi will also gun for both religions. Testing this is not that helpful unfortunately as most of them switch between one or the other.
AH atm will help 2 cities, Fishing 2 [there are a few more seafood cities also] cities, Pottery would help every city [granary] and cottages for 1 city and Delhi, but Delhi will be too busy with other things to consider granary/cottages.
Nonetheless, it is worth exploring this idea to compare.
I don't expect wonders to come very late in this game, I doubt the mapmaker will give us stone and marble without competition.
Finally, I also agree to check out SE with 2nd warrior for future dotmap... could very well be 2 seafood there (and I also think there's more food by the deer/2 ice silvers).
10 more turns will give us a much better idea how to settle the land, how many settlers we need and what techs to prioritize. It will also make testing more relevant, as the further we test ahead, the less reliable the results are.
We already know there are 2 Zealots in the game, one that pursues Buddhism [Izzy, Justinian, Charlemagne, HC, Monte*, Pacal*] and another Hinduism [Saladin, Pacal*, Monte*]. Could also be Brennus/Boudi (doubt it)/Wang Kon... going to run some tests to get a better idea. *is for leaders that tend to pick one or the other religion. EDIT: Brennus and Boudi will also gun for both religions. Testing this is not that helpful unfortunately as most of them switch between one or the other.
AH atm will help 2 cities, Fishing 2 [there are a few more seafood cities also] cities, Pottery would help every city [granary] and cottages for 1 city and Delhi, but Delhi will be too busy with other things to consider granary/cottages.
Nonetheless, it is worth exploring this idea to compare.
I don't expect wonders to come very late in this game, I doubt the mapmaker will give us stone and marble without competition.
Finally, I also agree to check out SE with 2nd warrior for future dotmap... could very well be 2 seafood there (and I also think there's more food by the deer/2 ice silvers).
EDIT: Oh yeah.. I got the file allright 
Plan for next 9 turns:
Wa = Warrior, Wo=worker
T36: Start TW, Wa1 NE, Wo1 S+Chop+Cancel. Focus EP on Zara.
T37: Wa1 NW+W, Wa2 SE, Wo1 SW+SE+Farm+Cancel, Delhi Works Corn*2+Silver (TW in 9)
T38: (Exploring warriors: Try to keep them alive while exploring as much as possible - along the coast when possible), Wo1 S+Mine, Wa3 Try to get him E of Stone, Delhi Starts Settler. (4th citizen on 1f2h (governor))
T39-42: Nothing much
T43: Mine done
T44: Wo1 N, NW, NE
T45: TW in, upload save - Not moving anything.
EDIT: Still not sure if you want me to stop for anything during the 9 turns. Not much we can do regardless of what happens, I think.
Plan for next 9 turns:
Wa = Warrior, Wo=worker
T36: Start TW, Wa1 NE, Wo1 S+Chop+Cancel. Focus EP on Zara.
T37: Wa1 NW+W, Wa2 SE, Wo1 SW+SE+Farm+Cancel, Delhi Works Corn*2+Silver (TW in 9)
T38: (Exploring warriors: Try to keep them alive while exploring as much as possible - along the coast when possible), Wo1 S+Mine, Wa3 Try to get him E of Stone, Delhi Starts Settler. (4th citizen on 1f2h (governor))
T39-42: Nothing much
T43: Mine done
T44: Wo1 N, NW, NE
T45: TW in, upload save - Not moving anything.
EDIT: Still not sure if you want me to stop for anything during the 9 turns. Not much we can do regardless of what happens, I think.
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