SGOTM 12 - ChokoMisfits

haphazard1 · Jan 18, 2011

Good luck, Sleepless!

At this point we just need to finish. Micro if you want to/have time, but brute force may be the way to go just for speed.

I had really hoped the AIs would do a better job of fallout clean up once they had the tech.

Once again we are reminded that it is never a good idea to rely on the AIs for anything, no matter how obvious/simple it seems.

I am very curious to see how other teams have handled this scenario. Soon we can find out, and wonder how we missed the obviously superior approaches used by the winning teams. :rolleyes:

Sleepless · Jan 18, 2011

Well short update I've played a few turns. Spaceship landed but hit another problem. The fallout in Mao's lands is now American so I can't clear it without being at war. Good news is Roo has declared on Mao so pact with Ghandi has finished. Hopefully I can kill Roo's SOD (which is rather big) clear all fallout and get peace very quickly. Then off to Churchill/Ghandi.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 18, 2011

Sleepless said:
Roo is the problem in that he has so many units. Very dependant if we can clear fallout with enough troops to defend our workers!!.

Attacking an eastern front city may divert all his offensive to recapturing it. On the same turn land a stack of 6 Workers and maybe 12+ Modern Armor and clear one plot of Fallout every 2t.

Sleepless said:
Civics due to cost will change back to rep/nat but will keep theo/fm/eman.

Representation is great for +3 Happiness in 5 largest cities and also good for Research to complete Robotics, so Mechanized Infantry can be built.

I probably would stick with Vassalage for reduced unit maintenance and extra +2 XP. Can only draft 3 half XP units per turn with Nationalism, and its not really worthwhile until Mechanized Infantry can be drafted.

Sleepless said:
Plan to buy airports so a quick swap to us.

Just the three Airports I mentioned, right?

Sleepless said:
Note we are losing gold at 0% so a bit of micro needed but won't be able to spend ages on it.

Our corporations are costing us more as they increase in population. That was good when increased population meant more Representation specialists and more Hammer plots worked while Researching SS Technologies and building SS parts.

I had maximum Merchants running, so that should be helping. With all small Hammer cities and one big Hammer city should be enough to break even. Also, MarbleTown will regularly overflow a lot of Wealth, even when building Modern Armor.

Some heavy drafting will help fix that and drafting Mechanized Infantry costs 3 Population, so 3 Unhappiness is matched by 3 less Unhappiness due to Population.

Sleepless, good luck! Also, please let us know how things are progressing now.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 18, 2011

Sleepless said:
Well short update I've played a few turns. Spaceship landed but hit another problem. The fallout in Mao's lands is now American so I can't clear it without being at war. Good news is Roo has declared on Mao so pact with Ghandi has finished. Hopefully I can kill Roo's SOD (which is rather big) clear all fallout and get peace very quickly. Then off to Churchill/Ghandi.

Too bad we don't have a Great Artist to push Roosevelt's borders back; A Great Works (4000C) in Mao Zedong's former city would have made it immediately productive as well with a Ring 4 border (0, 10, 100, 500).

You will probably want mostly Combat promotions to survive Roosevelt's suiciding his SOD against ours.

Also, once Mao Zedong's cities come out of disorder, you can work two Artists (Broadcast Tower via The Eiffel Tower) and build Culture to push Roosevelt's Culture back.

Good riddance to Gandhi + Roosevelt Defensive Pact.

Again, good luck with the Fallout clearing. Once its clear from an AI's lands, we need to make peace with him as soon as possible.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 18, 2011

haphazard1 said:
At this point we just need to finish. Micro if you want to/have time, but brute force may be the way to go just for speed.

Just finish the game. It doesn't appear that we will do as well as I had thought, even if we cleared all Fallout and had Peace by space ship arrival time.

haphazard1 said:
I had really hoped the AIs would do a better job of fallout clean up once they had the tech. Once again we are reminded that it is never a good idea to rely on the AIs for anything, no matter how obvious/simple it seems.

We really should have just played a game with the same settings and SG12 mod, perhaps a Modern Era start, nuked our Opponents, give them Ecology for Peace and see whether they clear Fallout.

haphazard1 said:
I am very curious to see how other teams have handled this scenario. Soon we can find out, and wonder how we missed the obviously superior approaches used by the winning teams.

I'm sure the best teams, spammed Great Wonders while the AI struggled, plus did Axeman rush, Swordman rush, Maceman rush, etc, or Chariot rush, Horse Archer rush, War Elephant rush, etc. decimating all AI opponents. Also, I'll bet they started Sid's Sushi and Mining, Inc. much earlier than we did.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sleepless · Jan 18, 2011

Disaster has happened so if someone has an idea how we can go from here feel free to take it? Had virtually cleared all the fallout in Roos lands. Just about to declare on Churchill and Ghandi this turn. (Note hadn't made peace with Mao so we would have a land route to Churchill as well).

Roo hit us with a Tac nuke in his lands. So no workers left there although we can still transfer them to his attack base. I really can't see where to go from here. Any ideas or any takers for the save.

Spoiler :

Sleepless · Jan 18, 2011

Log continued.

Spoiler :

Sleepless · Jan 18, 2011

Spoiler :

Sorry folks. If the new fallout doesn't count the only 2 places left in Roo's lands are the ones with the sign in the top corner and to the SE.

Must admit I don't want to finish this off. As soon as I heard the tremor from the nuke hitting I thought well you know!!!!

Getting very late here and as I'm likely to be full of beer tomorrow night probably not a good idea for me to play on so if someone else would like to finish it please do.

Sleepless · Jan 18, 2011

last post to big for characters so end of turnset.

Spoiler :

No units have been moved on this turn. Did lose quite alot of units as well to Roo. My fault in splitting the stacks a bit to much.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 18, 2011

Sleepless said:
Disaster has happened so if someone has an idea how we can go from here feel free to take it? Had virtually cleared all the fallout in Roos lands. Just about to declare on Churchill and Ghandi this turn. (Note hadn't made peace with Mao so we would have a land route to Churchill as well).

Roo hit us with a Tac nuke in his lands. So no workers left there although we can still transfer them to his attack base. I really can't see where to go from here. Any ideas or any takers for the save.

Where is the save file? It doesn't show up in the list of saves on the server.

I'm willing to continue play right now, but there's no save file.

Sun Tzu Wu

leif erikson · Jan 18, 2011

I tried to find your save on the server for you. I cannot find it for some reason.

This will have to wait for Alan to come up and check on it. Sorry, I tried.

The only other solution is for the last player to attach it here in your thread.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 18, 2011

leif erikson said:
I tried to find your save on the server for you. I cannot find it for some reason.

This will have to wait for Alan to come up and check on it. Sorry, I tried.

The only other solution is for the last player to attach it here in your thread.

Thanks, leif erikson!

It appears that the problem is the Space Ship arrived in Sleepless' turn set and the server sees that we have achieved a Space Colony Victory.

However, we still have Fallout to clear.

Unfortunately, Sleepless reasonably expected the server to publish the save game file, but it did not. I'm not sure when he will be available to post the save file to our thread. Looks like we will lose at least a day with 2 days to go.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 18, 2011

Did we have peace with all Civs, except Stalin, when the Space ship arrived? If not, we have already failed. BTW, I failed to note that we must be at peace with all Civs, except Stalin, when the space ship arrives.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10085552&postcount=172

According the above rules post by Alan, the space ship arrival (Space Colony Victory) and Peace with all Civs, except Stalin must occur at the same time.

Killing Stalin and/or clearing the Fallout can occur either before or after the Space Colony Victory:

1) We did kill Stalin well before the Space Colony Victory.

2) However, we still need to clear all Fallout

Unfortunately, we have no game save file to continue our game. If the server will not publish the game save immediately after the Space Colony Victory, how do we complete additional turn sets to complete ancillary victory requirements such as having all Fallout cleared?

Sun Tzu Wu

leif erikson · Jan 18, 2011

Sun Tzu Wu said:
Thanks, leif erikson!

It appears that the problem is the Space Ship arrived in Sleepless' turn set and the server sees that we have achieved a Space Colony Victory.

I agree that I think this is also the problem, but I'm not sure because I cannot see an AD1914 save on the server? :crazyeye:

I have posted this problem in the staff forum for Alan to see when he gets back online. Hoping you get a quick response. Good Luck! :thumbsup:

haphazard1 · Jan 18, 2011

Sun Tzu Wu,

I interpreted that post as we "won" the scenario on the first turn where all four conditions were true: SS victory, Stalin dead, peace with all civs, and no fallout anywhere. I do not think we have to have any specific conditions true at the time the SS arrived; we can manage all the others later as needed.

Anyway, it sounds like Bad Things are happening.

With AI nukes we will end up with more fallout, possibly faster than we are clearing it. :cry:

If we can get a save posted from Sleepless (or from the admins) I think we should still try to finish. If we can. If not...we made a strong effort and got very close.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 19, 2011

haphazard1 said:
I interpreted that post as we "won" the scenario on the first turn where all four conditions were true: SS victory, Stalin dead, peace with all civs, and no fallout anywhere. I do not think we have to have any specific conditions true at the time the SS arrived; we can manage all the others later as needed.

The Rules thread post I linked to above is clear, we must have peace with all AIs, except Stalin, when the Space Colony Victory occurs.

From the server log, we were at War with Mao Zedong through the Space Colony Victory turn. Unless Sleepless got a Cease Fire with Mao Zedong the turn prior to our Space Ship's arrival, we may have already lost. Vast numbers of Mao Zedong's were killed prior to Sleepless' turn set, so it quite plausible that we could have gotten a Cease Fire. In any case, we could have simply re-declared War on Mao Zedong again, immediately after the Space Colony Victory notice.

haphazard1 said:
Anyway, it sounds like Bad Things are happening. With AI nukes we will end up with more fallout, possibly faster than we are clearing it.

Depends on whether we can clear the Fallout and get peace with Roosevelt. Since Roosevelt used a Tactical Nuke, he may getting low on conventional units. Impossible to say without the save file. Also, he may not have more Tactical Nukes or ICBM or decide not to use them.

haphazard1 said:
If we can get a save posted from Sleepless (or from the admins) I think we should still try to finish. If we can. If not...we made a strong effort and got very close.

I agree, but we just lost an evening where I could have been playing to clear the final Fallout. We probably need every remaining hour between now and the deadline to finish, assuming that is still possible with Roosevelt shooting off Tactical Nukes.

In any case, we played a good game. Most of us probably lacked experience playing on a nuclear war ravaged world.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu · Jan 19, 2011

Winners of this Gauntlet probably rushed early, well and often, spammed Great Wonders that were not already built, captured those that were built and spammed workers as early as possible to make all cities immediately useful. I expect that the winners left Mao Zedong, Churchill, Roosevelt and Gandhi with only one crappy city and captured all of Stalin's cities slightly earlier than we did using Riflemen like we did. That provided a Research engine that could get to Medicine and Corporation very early to found Sid's Sushi that could quadruple Research.

In a couple of days, we can start reading about how they did it ... and stop speculating ...

Sun Tzu Wu

haphazard1 · Jan 19, 2011

Sun Tzu Wu,

I have gone back and reread that post, and it looks like you are correct. We needed to be at peace with all AIs (other than Stalin, who was already dead) on the turn the SS arrived.

So we did not meet the victory conditions.

I guess we can still complete the scenario, if we can get the save and have time. But there does not seem much point in doing so, now.

Sleepless · Jan 19, 2011

Sorry I'm sure I uploaded the save. Thinking of it I must have done as wouldn't have had the turnset logs up otherwise. We were still at war with Mao when the ship arrived so I missed the requirement and guess we failed the scenario.

Was playing late last night/early morning then couldn't get to sleep trying to think of a way round the problem so a "sleepless" night for me. Only way I could see around it as we lost all our workers in Roo's lands and any we now land would get nuked plus cost us all our units. So we would have to totally nuke all Roo's mainland cities. Spy for his uranium mines/take those cities then spend ages clearing up all the new fallout again. Will add my save when I get home to the post.

Well plan if we hadn't been nuked was ma/workers in the North of Roo's lands clear the last couple of tiles. The tile the injured ma are on had been cleared but has fallout again and no workers left.

What was a bigger stack to the South I had decided to give Washington a miss embark the units onto transports then drop off on the southern fallout. Then take peace and give up, our war base so all troops would go to Delhi.

MA/Workers in Churchill's lands would split and clear fallout. All troops being built now would attack Churchill and hopefully get him to peace quickly.

Delhi would have fallen this turn. Transport with workers/ma to clear fallout in North - ditto South on desert tiles.

Enough units to clear last couple of bit of fallout on island and protect workers though could move some from units moved out of American lands.

Note Roo would have made peace before he nuked us won't talk now?

AlanH · Jan 19, 2011

Victory saves are hidden on the progress page. Here is the url to download your last save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm12/ChokoMisfits_SG012_AD1914_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

SGOTM 12 - ChokoMisfits

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