SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

I editted and updated my gpp spreadsheet just to make sure I understood the plan with gpp.

I have left the # of specialists blank in all but the 3 cities expected to produce the next 3 GP for the next GA (Moscow, Fish, Pigs).

I think I understand what I need to do with the next GA with 3 GP.

If someone has time to summarize what I need to do to set up the next 2 GAs after the 3 GP one in terms of # of specialists and where I would appreciate it. I have mdy's guidelines, but I wanted to get specialist #'s and confirm with the spreadsheet. I included 12 cities in the spreadsheet, I didn't include Crabbes, and mdy suggested that was a back up city. If someone is inspired they can add Crabbes to spreadsheet
 

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Someone mentioned Slavery for factories yesterday. Is that something we're possibly considering? It would hugely affect the gpp, ofc.

Can't wait 'till we get Cristo...
 
I was thinking the same thing. Unless we are way ahead on GP production, I'm thinking that building infrastructure with Caste-powered workshops and Mining Inc. will be more effective that Slavery.

BTW, I will be around for the next two weeks, but I won't have the ability to actually play between the 24th and 2nd.
 
I didn't set off the GA in the end, so you can use the current save. The crabs site was a backup to the pigs in case it did not generate a GA, however as the chances are very small and people did't like running artists, I switched the specialists there to scientists for which we do not need any more back ups.
 
xpost with RRR, hahahaha
I'm adopting mdy's PPP with a few minor changes/clarifications in RED

Pre Play Plan:

Techs-Research Astronomy(1T) at 0%-steal steam power-research railroad-finish astronomy if we can't trade for it-afterwards depends on rooservelt.

Cities:

Moscow:
Hires at least 5 scientists. Will produce GP for 3 GP golden age, can also provide scientist for the 5GP golden age.
Builds confu missionary, confu missionary,-wealth- mining exec, but interrupt for an observatory/grocer when necessary.

Fish:
works fish, all land tiles except watermill(1T), then works watermill instead of gold.
T+0 Hires 2 merchants
T+1: grow and work lake
T+2: Hire an extra merchant and stop working the lake
T+4: Grows, Wall Street finished. Hire 14 merchants. Build wealth to preserve overflow.
Once mining corp founded fire 7 merchants for 1T to build the executive in 1T, then rehire them. Start workboats for eastern islands.
T+11: GP generated

Pigs:
T+0: Hire 2 artists only
T+1: Hire 9 artists (total)
T+2: Hire another artist
T+10: Hire max artists without starving
Whip university immediately, then build wealth.
Spread Sushi with the executive built in GP farm next term
This city can produce a GP for the 4 person golden age.

GP FARM:
works all hammer tiles, and however many farms are needed to ensure we grow at one pop a turn. After finishing the executive builds building allowing us to run specialists and spies. Specialists assigned in order - prophets-engineers-spies-merchants
This city can produce a GP in time for the 4GP 3 GP golden age.

Siberia:

Immediately hire a spy and engineer, and then 3 more engineers once we have the ironworks, this should put this city in a position to generate a GP for our 4 GP golden age.Hire no more GP's here for now to work workshops.
T+2 Spread Shushi with executive from
T+3 Shushi executive for Beijing
T+4 Shushi executive for Paris
T+5 Build Levee
T+6 Mining corps executive
T+7 Mining corps executive
Continuously build mining corps executives.

Kamachka:
T+0 whip Sushi executive
T+1 Build Sushi executive for Siberia
T+2 Build Sushi executive for Orleans
Hire a spy, and then scientists as the city grows.
Build 3 settlers, 1 for the copper site in the south 1, 1 for the iceball iron city, and 1 for the 2 clam island. Then build a couple of spies. Then start university.

1 galley in this area permanently assigned to transporting executives

Bananas:
Whip university, workboat for clams near Moscow, workboat for the copper sites fish, build wealth, hire spy other than that hire only scientists
Builds any extra spies we might need.
prebuild a galley to convert hammers invested into a galleon build once we get astronomy (for workers/settlers to islands and eventually Stalin)

Bermuda:
Spread Sushi using executive built in Bahamas next turn
Finishes Versailles, builds 3 settlers/jail/market/university/temple
Hires, engineer, spys, prophet, then scientists as it grows
Should generate a GP in time for fourth GP golden age

Bahamas:
Builds executives.
Keeps the current 5 spys. Slot in happy buildings in any gaps.
Hire scientists as additional specialists.

BCool:
whips university, OF into worker, spreads Sushi using executive currently in Bahamas. Builds workboats for island cities, and later executives/harbour.

I estimate at least 92 worker turns on Bcool island alone. We need more workers here.

Haiti:
T+0: Borrows BCool workshop
T+1: whip courthouse.
lighthouse
library,
wealth and work scientists and MM ocean tiles for growth once lighthouse is built


The Crabbes:
Whip library then builds university, hire spy, engineer and then scientists as specialists

Iron Spice:
Continues with granary(chopped), then start courthouse

Cuba:
Whip university, start grocer start market hire spy and engineer specialist only.

Steam;
Continue building wealth.
Hire citizen instead of working farm.
Only use it to steal steam power from Churchill.

Rheims:
Hires merchants once it has run out of land tiles.

T+0 Shushi spread by executive in steam
T+1 Shushi executive built, send to hammer city
Builds more executives. When numbers limit interferes build
caravel- university-temple-jail-colloseum
Order:
London
Shanghai
Other executives go to the China/England area.
Can generate a GP in time for 4 GP golden age.

Orleans:
builds settler
T+1 whips settler
(since Moscow can now produce Confu missionaries for us)

Build longbows for military garrisons, and later executives

Paris:
start temple, whip T+1, overflow into knight, then build 2 more temples-Buddhist missionary for London-library-jail and/or intel agency, university-
Immediately hire 3 prophets, and build temples to allow us to hire 2 more. Hire 4th prophet on T+2, 5th when second temple built.
Instead of trying to spread Judaism here I think we can build some spy specialist buildings here to try and get a GP from here. I think a Prophet/Spy are interchangeable.

Hammer City:
Build forge
Sushi spread on T+1 with executive from Rheims.
Whip forge next turn, build leveee/library
Build executives for other cities.
Build market in any gaps, we will need the happiness here at some point.

Tours:
T+1 whip courthouse
Build granary-forge

Hastings:
T+0:whip courthouse
whip galley
but build courthose
whip Jewish missionary for Paris
T+1:Build Jewish missionary

T+1 whip courthouse (so no penalty for no hammers invested)
T+2:Build galley
T+3:Build Courthouse
Continue with granary
I don't think the Jewish Missionary is worth the 3 extra pop it would take to build. Paris can build spy specialist buildings to increase chances of getting a great person instead of another temple.

Nanjing:
T+0: Whip courthouse, start granary
T+1: Whip granary
T+2: Finish Courthouse
T+3: Finish Granary
Build Forge

Shanghai:
switch to caravel, whip next turn, build grocer-wealth, hire merchants as specialists

Beijing:
whip university-start galley-whip galley-temple then 3 workboats. Hire only prophet and engineer in addition to the spies.This city can produce a GP for our 4 GP golden age.

Guangzhou:
start galley-whip galley-lighthouse-library-university

Chengdu:
whips library, starts university

Catured cities from Churchill:
build replace courthouse/granary/lighthouse, then build library/university.

New Cities:
We have 6 sites we would like to settle for there resources fairly soon:
1) A city to grab the fish and copper SW of crabs
2) 4E 1N of Bermuda
3) 3N of Bermuda
4) 3S 2E of pig
5) The clam island near Stalin
6) Iceball iron city south of Curchill

Sites 4, 5 and 6 can be founded with 3 settlers from Kamchtka

Bahamas can build the other 3 by T+8 .

There are some other islands we can settle, but they will have to wait till astronomy.
1 Island can be settled by extra settler from Orleans and galleon being pre-built in Bananas

Build courthouse-granary in all new cities

Workers:

BCool island currently has 4 workers. Leave 3 to improve/scrub that island, move one back in time to railroad mines on Bahamas island. The worker currently scrubbing the island to the north will join them, then more those 2 workers back to the mainland. But only do this once critical improvements are finished.

9 worker in Tours-Hammer City area scrub the surrounding area then 3 build railroad into England and Gandhi. 2 remain to workshop around hammer city. 4 workers move to immediately build a fort by Hastings on T+2, then continue building railroads.

3 workers in France area scrub then build railroad extension into America area.

4 workers in Moscow area scrub, farm, and then railroad towards Rheims.

3 workers to the north scrub, then railroad Siberia-Troy-Moscow.

Once this hub is set up railroad over mines and to link other key cities up.

Improvements to be built by workers: any corporation resource-workshop-other improvements-scrubbing.

Churchill War:

Cease fire next turn after capturing Canterbury/Newcastl. Canterbury attack starts this turn. Gift steam and steal steam power. Redeclare next turn.

Newcastle stack is then sent North in preparation for the Gandhi war.

When we redeclare war send the London stack to take Nottingham

Canterbury stack takes Warick then moves to Newcastle in preparation for the gandhi war.

I think we should leave Churchill Coventry as it will allow the London stack to join the India war sooner.

Mao War/Stalin War

Cancel plans for this and leave him in St Nick. Gift Bing Mao to France to avoid maintenance costs and diplo demerits with Rooservelt.

Gandhi War

Send trieme in Hastings to Newcastle
Caravel built in Shanghai to Guangzhou so they can be upgraded to frigates later.

3 New galleys ere built in Hastings/Guangzhou/Beijing.
3 galleys to the north of the main continent head to Xian. Arrive by T+7.
The galleys in/being built in Beijing and Guangzhou are also sent there, transporting units from the Oxford peninsualar there on the way. This will allow us to land 14 units on NW of Viagra on T+9.

The 3 galleys built in Hastings and 2 near Mitchums Oasis head towards Newcastle so we can land 10 units on Gandhi's southern flank on T+9.

Leave Gandhi in Galley city, but keep knight on the hill next to the city just in case he sends a unit out. Send the cannon to Xian.

Abort the Marseilles attack. Leave a couple of muskets in that area just in case Churchill sends out a couple of pillagers. Get it from Churchill in a peace treaty if possible, otherwise leave it in his hands. The rest of the units are sent onto Xian-arrive between T+6 and T+7.

Only upgrade trebuchets when necessary to keep the advance going.

Espionage: Send 1 spy near Troy to Vladivostok and one from north of St Nick, the other goes Nick to Troy. If we have at least 1 survivor from stealing steam power send it to Troy. If we lose both build another spy in bananas.

We will have enough espionage by T+6 to see Rooservelt's research, as things stand but by hiring a few additional spies for 1T I think we can manage this by T+5. By my estimate on T+5 we will have 1432 espionage and we currently need 11446 to see his research.

Misc:

Trade Gandhi dye for fish.

Revolt to caste system/pacifism/Civil Service on T+1.

Settle next GG in Moscow

If we can't be sure that Mao will sign a cease fire in a turn or two delay the Mao war and military tradition steal.

I propose to pause once we have railroad on T+6 when we should know what Rooservelt is researching, or on T+5 if we can trade for astronomy by then.
 
@bcool

Here is my version of the gpp spreadsheet. It's a bit different than yours. It keeps all of the information closer to the city so that you don't have to jump around as much. You can enter the gpp value in "GP Cost" for the GP just generated (column K for Moscow, for example) and it will subtract that from your total automatically. That keeps the -1200 (in the example of Moscow's next GP) visible where it gets hidden and possibly forgotten the way you do it.

It does NOT take into account the change in gpp from buildings, so that will have to be adjusted as we go along.

I also took a stab at what type of GP each city favors (row 5), but I'm not sure I have what mdy was planning.

If we expect to get GPs from Bahamas, Crabbes or London, we should try to get a missionary there right away. Note that I've had two missionaries fail in Bahamas already. I'm going back to my hit the space bar (at least once or twice) method. :p

We really need to grow GP Farm!! We should be able to squeeze 3 GPs from here if we work nothing but farms with the occasional hammer tile to finish a build, although that won't be necessray once we have Mining Inc here.
 

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As far as I can tell, you two aren't factoring in starving any cities down to run maxe specs for some number of turns. Rheims, for example might grow to pop25 in the next 15t (off the top of my head) and then could run 25-24-23-22-... specs down to some population with diminishing returns.

We don't necessarily want to do this in every city possible, I guess, but it would be a way to get more GPs sooner to tell us where we stand overall. Getting our GAs set up sooner also allows us to run only sci sooner.

Space-parts cities might not be soo good for this, since we'll want to have enough pop to run max hammers plus engineers, plus poprush max overflow for the final parts.
 
Tentative gp plan with required specialists for all GAs with Mitchum's "clean" gpp spreadsheet.

My quick and dirty spreadsheet wasn't up to his standards apparently :hmm:

no really it was better :thumbsup:

Made slight modifications for spreading confu in Bahamas (if it is possible...)
Didn't adjust for building gp

It looks like the GA with 4 GP is the hardest to get. We definitely want to make sure we get physics which Gandhi could be researching as we speak...

A number of backups for the 5 GP GA I believe
 

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As far as I can tell, you two aren't factoring in starving any cities down to run maxe specs for some number of turns. Rheims, for example might grow to pop25 in the next 15t (off the top of my head) and then could run 25-24-23-22-... specs down to some population with diminishing returns.

I didn't take a real close look at the number of specs hired per city since it is so dependent on when the city gets Sushi and how aggressively we grow them. The intent of my spreadsheet was just to put something out there for us to play with.

In general, I fill out the spreadsheet all the way to the expected end of the game running all cities at their sweet spot (i.e. sustainable specialist growth and quantity). Then, I fine tune things to get a GP in one city sooner so that it beats a faster gpp-producing city, starve a city to squeeze out that last great person, etc.

I have done none of this optimizing because I'm not even sure that I have the sweet spot right for each city due to all of the variables.
 
My quick and dirty spreadsheet wasn't up to his standards apparently :hmm:

It's not that yours wasn't good. I think both of our spreadsheets accomplish the same thing. Mine has been a work in progress for over a year when I got interested in cultural games. It presents the information in a way that is easier for me to see the immediate impact of changes made on a city-by-city basis.

I'm not tied to my format, but I wanted to throw it out there since it contains so much blood, sweat and tears and includes input from many teammates over the months...
 
There are a lot of variables we don't have, I just made a rough guess at the number of specialists possible. We will have to adjust obviously because all of the specialist pools are not pure.

But Mitchum's spreadsheet and my guesses gives me an idea of what #'s to run and what buildings we need where.

Where to spread sushi asap, where to spread confu... etc.

Take a look at my guesses at # of specialists, and if you can see a city we can use as a backup for the 4 GP GA, maybe by starving it.

@Mitchum, your spreadsheet was clearly better. I was just being silly/playful. I was going to bowdown to you if you whipped that out in the hour or so btwn getting the task and production.
 
By the way I can play up to RR tonight (in 4-6 hours). So if you guys want to make recommendations for the first 5-6 turns now would be the time to do it.
 
@bcool

I took a look at your spreadsheet. I like the added info of expected GP type. Another improvement. :goodjob:

For Beijing to have decent odds at a mongrel, we'll need prophet and engineer slots opened there soon.

So let me see:

3-GP GA -> GS/GE from Moscow + GM from Fish + GA from Pigs

4-GP GA -> Mongrel from Beijing + GM from Rheims + GA from GP Farm + GS from Physics

5-GP GA -> Mongrel from London + GA from Pigs + Mongrel from Kamchatka + GP/GS from Paris + GE from Physics with GM from Fish and GS from GP Farm as backup.

Does this look about right?

Since we're getting a GE from Fusion, we only need a GSpy or GPro for our last GA (i.e. GS + GM + GA + GE (free) + GP/GSpy). I wonder if we can run more merchants/scientiest in the cities generating great people for our last GA...

BTW, thanks for taking a stab at this. It is very complicated.
 
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