SGOTM 13 - Phoenix Rising

[stuge]

Kadazzle is right about binary. This early there's not much it can take advantage of.

That said, I think we should run binary regardless as soon as we found our second city. It's not much of a bother in a SG and it can save us a couple of turns in research so why not?

 

[awilder]

My vote is for scouting to the North/ Cathy. My logic is that we don't have to preplan very much if we want to settle stone since we are already researching masonry. The WB that gets whipped into the oracle can scout a couple of turns near the stone probably, or even the galley carrying the settler in a pinch. Otoh, scouting toward Cathy gives us foreign TR soon (we are going writing right after pottery anyway, are we not?) and also could potentially reveal game-breaking info (can we settle profitably??)

Also I vote for binary as a default. The only thing we have to be careful of is that we don't save up too much gold and possibly delay priesthood by a turn with still some cash reserves. I seem to remember from my test games that two turns of 0% (done exactly when coffers are depleted) was enough to get us there, maybe with a couple of turns at less than 100% near the end.

 

[lymond]

Help me understand something as I'm a bit confused. When is the galley needed for the settler currently being built. My assumption is that we are building the settler to an optimal whip point and then holding in the queue for the right moment to whip it. Hence, the galley has more time to scout.

I agree with most that scouting the stone island is not a priority necessarily. We can plop the settler on top of the stone which will reveal a lot and then settle accordingly (but not on the stone). However, scouting the the immediate area is. The most important thing at the moment is finding more sites to settle and resources. If that is in the direction of Cathy then so be it. Maybe send the Galley SW around the Marble island and then back up NW.

I would assume that we are only going binary after settling a second city and falling into deficit research. No point in it until that happens.

I would not be surprised if there is a strat resource in that Island to the SW.

 

[Kadazzle]

It was my understanding that we're whipping the settler within 2 turns? So the Galley would have to delay exploration for 2 turns.

 

[Gumbolt]

It was my understanding that we're whipping the settler within 2 turns? So the Galley would have to delay exploration for 2 turns.

The galley on T1 has to head back to Paris. At the point we can 2 pop whip the settler. The turn later the settler can board the ship. Have you read bobby's plan and tried it on the test game???

The galley won't be exploring till the second city is built!! It is there we have a 23 turn gap between the 2nd city being settled and worker being whipped and the corn being farmed.

Kadazzle - If you intend to use Bobbys plan then you need to paste the turns that cover what you do and provide a proper plan. You cant play your turnset till you post a plan!! You need to clarify route galley will take in your plan.

@ Awilder the galley may head north and not even find cathy if there are lots of islands. It is a risk! We don't know how the workboat found us.

 

[Gumbolt]

Help me understand something as I'm a bit confused. When is the galley needed for the settler currently being built. My assumption is that we are building the settler to an optimal whip point and then holding in the queue for the right moment to whip it. Hence, the galley has more time to scout.

We only have one galley Lymond. We have no plans for a second one yet. Ermmm have you not read bobby's plan? The settler is whipped at size 4 as soon as the city allows it. Bobby whipped the galley overflow into the settler! The reason I was against the galley scouting is it has to return to ship worker to chop forest for Oracle.

I agree with most that scouting the stone island is not a priority necessarily. We can plop the settler on top of the stone which will reveal a lot and then settle accordingly (but not on the stone). However, scouting the the immediate area is. The most important thing at the moment is finding more sites to settle and resources. If that is in the direction of Cathy then so be it. Maybe send the Galley SW around the Marble island and then back up NW.

I would assume that we are only going binary after settling a second city and falling into deficit research. No point in it until that happens.

I assume so. Kadazzle has not posted his plan yet.

Updated some points above.

Everyone -If you are confused by the settler/galley or time the galley has to explore please try playing the test game till Oracle is built. We can't afford people making mistakes on the live game!

 

[Kadazzle]

No one's making any mistakes - I'm most likely going to follow Bobby's plan exactly. There's no point in posting it if we're still debating whether or not we're sending the Galley east or north, or if we're building a WB.

Yes, we're only going binary after 2nd city is settled.

What turn # am I playing up to? Everyone is still on board with Bobby's plan (copy/pasted), correct? :

T57: Galley moves 1 square away from paris but then has to return back, by now it's scouted a reasonable area around marble spot.
T58: Settler is whipped, galley continues back to paris. Paris size 2 works 2 (northern)clams
T59: Settler loads onto Galley Paris goes back to lighthouse
T60:Settler unloads onto marble. Galley now has time to explore a little , needs to be back on the tile 1SW of Paris by T84 however.
T61: (2475BC) Rheims is founded, works its clams and starts building lighthouse
T62: Mysticism in set research to Med
T65: Paris grows to size 3. Works 2 clams +PH
T70: Med completes, start on priesthood. Rheims grows to size 2 works Clams +Grass forest.

Binary would then start once Myst is in, as well as going the lowest % on Myst's last turn for more Gold.

If we want a Workboat we'd have to add that in.

 

[lymond]

Link to Bobby's plan - for convenience:

Bobby's Plan

Looks good Kadazzle

 

[bobbyboy29]

Kadazzle, I think that you should try and max out scouting for your turnset so we have more to discuss before the next one. We can't really plan this too well cause we don't know what shape the islands in the fog are.

Just remember in your turnset that at the end of turn 82 the galley has to be on the tile 1SW of the cap so you'll want to finish your turnset at whatever point the galley has to return home. If you go straight north that should be around T71, if you go east then circle north you shouldn't have to return back till T73 or even 75. Just make sure that the galley will make it back in time and try to clear as much fog as possible. Other than that it looks like you have things under control.

 

[Kadazzle]

Alright, cool. I'm going to bed now, I'll be playing within 18 hours I'd say.

 

[Gumbolt]

On the plan. I assume the galley has already moved the tile away from paris?

When running binary make sure we have enough science to still complete Oracle by 1725?? Remember to also switch it back after the 1-2 turns!!! Note Binary may throw out research dates by 1-2 turns but we should easily catch up.

Are you planning to go round the crabs when going north? Also we should get a second border pop soon? Turn 18?

Downside to sending galley north now is we don't have writing so we won't be able to enter Moscow BFC and perhaps meet the second AI Cathy knows. Be careful you can get galley back in time. Don't assume that you will be able to get back an unexplored way!

Don't forget to work the clams in Rheims!!!

Oh we get a border pop in 18 turns.

 

[Jaybone]

binary will only lose you turns in research if you build up too much of a surplus. I see the plusses and minuses of both gallery exploration ideas and am relatively ambivalent, so whatever the group decides is ok by me.

 

[Gumbolt]

binary will only lose you turns in research if you build up too much of a surplus. I see the plusses and minuses of both gallery exploration ideas and am relatively ambivalent, so whatever the group decides is ok by me.

I just tested binary. Overall on my 2 saves at 1725 when I got the Oracle on both saves.

I got pottery 1 turn earlier at 1775bc on binary and 40 science into writing.

On non binary i got pottery 1750 and had no beakers in writing. Net gain appears to be 40 beakers over the 33 turns. I used 2 full turns of taxes at start of turnset. i didn't follow plan exactly as i forgot to put worker over flow into the settler. I wasn't reading the plan when playing.

Edit: I think best thing is 2 run 2 turns of binary when we settle second city! We will probably have a third turn spare to do this but be safe with 2!

Overall 40 beakers is worth 2 turns of science.

I will retest to ensure i followed plan and didn't put science into MC in error.

In terms of the exploration our second border pop may reveal more of the stone island anyway. We could try going north but let's make sure we cover the sides of the islands we can't see. I am keen we find a military resource asap. Copper will be huge!!

 

[Kadazzle]

^ That was what I was thinking too, actually. Like I said, we're only starting binary after we settle the 2nd city, and I'll put it at 2t 0%, -> 100% and so on.

I'll send the Galley east to do a "circle" route around the Stone, I guess? Like everyone's been saying, it can simply head north afterwards.

I'll play soon, but I'll do a test run right now.

 

[Kadazzle]

On t61 we can run research at 20% with +4 beeakers/t and +15g, while still completing Myst on time. This means we don't have to use 0% right away.

T57: Galley moves 1 square away from paris but then has to return back, by now it's scouted a reasonable area around marble spot.
T58: Settler is whipped, galley continues back to paris. Paris size 2 works 2 (northern)clams
T59: Settler loads onto Galley Paris goes back to lighthouse
T60:Settler unloads onto marble. Galley now has time to explore a little , needs to be back on the tile 1SW of Paris by T84 however.
T61: (2475BC) Rheims is founded, works its clams and starts building lighthouse
Research to 20%, 4b/t +15g
T62: Mysticism in set research to Med
Research 100%, 20b/t -1g
T65: Paris grows to size 3. Works 2 clams +PH
T69: Research 50%, 10b/t +8g (17 total gold)
T70: Med completes, start on priesthood. Rheims grows to size 2 works Clams +Grass forest.
Research 100%, 20b/t -2g (Priesthood 6t, -12g)

Once Paris grows to size 3 after the whip, if it works a coastal tile for 3t, you can get Med 1t quicker. However, I assume this screws up the plan because we need those 9hammers?

 

[Kadazzle]

Question: 1) After I drop the Settler off on the Marble, do you guys want the Galley to go North or South of the island South of us? If it goes south of the island, there may be more land to the SE which would connect us to the stone island, effectively exploring the Stone island quicker. North is the "safe" side, where we'd shave 1t off if there turns out to be no extra land connecting the island and stone island together with coastal tiles.

 

[Jaybone]

strictly speaking, we should always be running binary, because it ensures you don't lose research to rounding off fractions of commerce

 

[cripp7]

don't forget to put a monument into Rheims that way we can whip it into the lighthouse..

 

[Gumbolt]

don't forget to put a monument into Rheims that way we can whip it into the lighthouse..

Skip the monument the Oracle will give us the quicker border pop anyway. We want a workboat!! That workboat can explore south when it arrives. We will get one in the cap as well soon enough.

On t61 we can run research at 20% with +4 beeakers/t and +15g, while still completing Myst on time. This means we don't have to use 0% right away.

Once Paris grows to size 3 after the whip, if it works a coastal tile for 3t, you can get Med 1t quicker. However, I assume this screws up the plan because we need those 9hammers?

I would run only 100% science or tax. If you run at 20% you lose percentages. I would run 2 turns of binary when you settle Rheims. Better to run the food than coastal tiles in Rheims as BB has worked out the growth side of things. We need to grow for both the worker and next settler.

I did like the circle idea as you get to go north anyway and you cover more land and we will know exactly where to build the stone city.

The direct north idea. Our cap border pop will show 3-4 tiles of stone island anyway and we have kind of decided to settle there anyway. Perhaps just head north and explore crabs island on way and east of the 3 long island too.

Circle idea is a strong strategy really for new city sites.

Overall if you are running pure binary and sticking to plan you might as well play. We will never truly know what is best exploration wise. Luck of the draw. Do make sure galley has not already moved the 1 tile.

Just do what you think is right. I don't like the south idea with galley as we truly don't know where that will lead.

 

[Gumbolt]

I really have no more to add and I think the only question is over the galley exploration. East circle should work well. Just do it and play.