How many extra turns does Poly cost us?? Would we really have a spare city to throw hammers at TOA?? What other benefits?? if it helps ot Org religion then maybe. I would point out so far we don't even have a religion yet!
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SGOTM 13 - Phoenix Rising
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
How many extra turns does Poly cost us?? Would we really have a spare city to throw hammers at TOA?? What other benefits?? if it helps ot Org religion then maybe. I would point out so far we don't even have a religion yet!
stuge
Emperor
Poly doesn't offer us anything right now, and by the time researching lit becomes an option, it'll be easy to trade for or research.
We'll need med eventually for philo anyway, which is on the way to sweet, sweet drafting. Of course, the same points apply as above, which just goes to show how tiny the issue really is.
We'll need med eventually for philo anyway, which is on the way to sweet, sweet drafting. Of course, the same points apply as above, which just goes to show how tiny the issue really is.
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should indeed be sweet this game, I hope
I agree, let's stick to Med to cut the number of turns to PH and Oracle.
Kadazzle
Emperor
I agree with sticking to Med - the whole point of the game is to win the quickest. In the end, every single turn counts, and we have to keep that in-mind while we play.
@Gumbolt - Yes, I can play after Bobby.
@Gumbolt - Yes, I can play after Bobby.
vranasm
Deity
As it seems Poly is not favorite here ;-) will have to live with it
I think we should move on then. The plan seems to be good on the way and we are set in stone.
I hope we get soon some more interesting discussion after exploration and maybe even finding some AI's.
I think we should move on then. The plan seems to be good on the way and we are set in stone.
I hope we get soon some more interesting discussion after exploration and maybe even finding some AI's.
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Ok I'm going to play in around 3 hours if its ok with everyone, teching mysticism and doing everything as per the plan on the previous page. Doesn't seem like thre's anything left to discuss.
BTW my vote is for med as well. Main reason is that by the time we want to tech the oher one (i.e by the time we need to tech poly for lit or med for philo bulb) both techs will only really cost one turn. Here, poly will cost us 4 very valuable turns.
BTW my vote is for med as well. Main reason is that by the time we want to tech the oher one (i.e by the time we need to tech poly for lit or med for philo bulb) both techs will only really cost one turn. Here, poly will cost us 4 very valuable turns.
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Damn, I'm getting an error message from buffy, I can load the save fine and all but it says that it "can't save settings" because I'm "not the administrator" even though I'm clearly logged in as an admin on my computer. It says that the save file will not be valid for submission so I'm gonna hold off playing for now. Anyone know what I'm supposed to do here?
Edit: Problem solved!
Edit: Problem solved!
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Ok, the round is played, and guess who popped by to say hi? 
Not the greatest look there but apparently she's seeking CLOSER relations!
Here's her workboat, it appears to have come from the north west, it went E then 1NE he next turn and i didn't see it again
Rest of the turnset went as planned although it appears that the only way that the marble city will have food is if we settle on marble anyway. (Still 2 water tiles in the fog so there's still hope!)
Overall, it doesn't look like there's too much to add, 2nd city should still settle on marble. The appearance of cathy means we need to debate:
1) Where the galley explores, should it check out the stone site or head straight north by northwest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_by_northwest (sorry, I couldn't resist
)
2) Whether the third city should be settled for the stone or should head straight for the main landmass. Very interesting...
A final couple of notes:
1) Cathy's 2/0 initial espionage ratio means that she probably only knows 1 other AI at this point no?
2) Demographics appear to indicate that at least 1 AI has an inland cap, just worth noting...
Spoiler for turn log:
Not the greatest look there but apparently she's seeking CLOSER relations!
Here's her workboat, it appears to have come from the north west, it went E then 1NE he next turn and i didn't see it again
Rest of the turnset went as planned although it appears that the only way that the marble city will have food is if we settle on marble anyway. (Still 2 water tiles in the fog so there's still hope!)
Overall, it doesn't look like there's too much to add, 2nd city should still settle on marble. The appearance of cathy means we need to debate:
1) Where the galley explores, should it check out the stone site or head straight north by northwest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_by_northwest (sorry, I couldn't resist
)2) Whether the third city should be settled for the stone or should head straight for the main landmass. Very interesting...
A final couple of notes:
1) Cathy's 2/0 initial espionage ratio means that she probably only knows 1 other AI at this point no?
2) Demographics appear to indicate that at least 1 AI has an inland cap, just worth noting...
Spoiler for turn log:
Spoiler :
No copper so far!! Rules out an early rush even if we wanted one.
Cathy prolly up north. I think perhaps the Ai has been divided up into smaller continents. If so we have to stop them settling the islands!! We do risk losing the +1 naval movement if our galley/workboat don't explore.
I would send the workboat to explore around 17oobc? We could circle galley around our island and then to stone. Or direct to Russians and back. Overall better to scout out our stone city as we have no resources for war yet! Might be useful to get Russians to pleased.
Russians score of 127 seems rather high for 1 city!
I think it is interesting the Russians arrived from the area where we see little resources.
Cathy prolly up north. I think perhaps the Ai has been divided up into smaller continents. If so we have to stop them settling the islands!! We do risk losing the +1 naval movement if our galley/workboat don't explore.
I would send the workboat to explore around 17oobc? We could circle galley around our island and then to stone. Or direct to Russians and back. Overall better to scout out our stone city as we have no resources for war yet! Might be useful to get Russians to pleased.
Russians score of 127 seems rather high for 1 city!
I think it is interesting the Russians arrived from the area where we see little resources.
vranasm
Deity
well we don't know how much manipulated above the GLH thing was the map.
btw is it possible that russians have the GLH?
edit:
btw Cathy produced 666 culture in capital up to this point, with 57 turns played it's 11 culture/turn on average! Seems to me like a lot...
btw is it possible that russians have the GLH?
edit:
btw Cathy produced 666 culture in capital up to this point, with 57 turns played it's 11 culture/turn on average! Seems to me like a lot...
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Was about to post that I forgot to mention that there's no copper so for and that I forgot to check whether or not cathy has the GLH (you can check yes i'm near certain) but it looks like I was beaten to it!
vranasm
Deity
Was about to post that I forgot to mention that there's no copper so for and that I forgot to check whether or not cathy has the GLH (you can check yes i'm near certain) but it looks like I was beaten to it!
GLH = 6 culture. Palace = 2culture, creative=2 culture thats 10. We can safely asume she has the GLH indeed
rush rush rush. lol
Assuming we have been given copper or horse. perhaps just iron? We only need to take the capital for GLH benefits. BTW our power rating shot up with that galley!
Edit! If you had checked the top 5 cities you would of seen Moscow as top city with GLH!
In terms of going ahead. Key thing is to scout land around capital for next 2-3 cities.
We need to consider binary science once second city built. How would this improve our science? Has anyone tested it?
In terms of Marble city. It ain't best city in world but it may make a moai site I guess. We could chop islands to speed it up. When galley returns it should brush the single dot island to reveal land. There also could also be food west of marble island.
@ Bobbyboy can you in future submit save in pause mode! Perhaps you could resubmit it in pause mode!
Kadazzle
Emperor
Our first priority should be getting a Workboat out to Cathy, and get open borders. That +2 early commerce cuts down turns, and it will speed up our tech and Cathy's tech, which the quickest way to tech on most maps is to trade with the AI. We can beeline Military techs easier this way IMO.
I'm up next, unless Vicawoo posts (I guess?). How many turns, 10?
The Galley doesn't need to scout the Stone at the moment, we have a good many of turns before we have to settle our third city anyways.
EDIT: In regards to inland capitals, it's easier to tell how many people potentially have inland caps if you have the demographics and average. But yes, at least one person does have an inland capital.
I'm up next, unless Vicawoo posts (I guess?). How many turns, 10?
The Galley doesn't need to scout the Stone at the moment, we have a good many of turns before we have to settle our third city anyways.
EDIT: In regards to inland capitals, it's easier to tell how many people potentially have inland caps if you have the demographics and average. But yes, at least one person does have an inland capital.
Kadazzle you are up next. I have slotted in Vicawoo down order after Awilder who will follow kadazzle. (Let me know if this is a problem Awilder)
Turn length? 10? 15?? What does everyone think? I think once city is settled we will be waiting for worker whip.
As for Cathy how would you fit in a workboat without delaying our worker/lighthouse or other builds.
Does the galley have time to pop up north after the settler? We will be whipping a workboat in the second city! We have to weigh this against early exploring around cap for new city sites.
Will we get foreign trade routes without writing for open borders?? We will get a 2c trade route from city 2 anyway.
Turn length? 10? 15?? What does everyone think? I think once city is settled we will be waiting for worker whip.
As for Cathy how would you fit in a workboat without delaying our worker/lighthouse or other builds.
Does the galley have time to pop up north after the settler? We will be whipping a workboat in the second city! We have to weigh this against early exploring around cap for new city sites.
Will we get foreign trade routes without writing for open borders?? We will get a 2c trade route from city 2 anyway.
The only worry for me is that BUFFY seems to crash every time I try to load an autosave. That shouldn't be a problem for the live game but maybe it's a symptomnof a larger problem.
I agree that we should scout toward cat, rather than the stone.
You need OB to get trs.
I agree that we should scout toward cat, rather than the stone.
You need OB to get trs.
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awilder - Although I think you use BAT some, if you run BUG in custom assets it will conflict with BUFFY, so make sure you have a clean copy of your custom assets when running BUFFY.
I will work on an updated test game shortly.
I don't think the exploring WB is urgent yet since we need Writing to get trade routes - we can time a WB shortly before we tech writing. Looks to me like we still stick to the plan.
It's kinda surprising that Cathy would not have a 2nd city by now.
The good news is that the GLH is not far from us.
By the way, Cathy is already in the test save. However, I will relocate her with another AI that would likely be in the proximate position to send a wb to us that soon, plus she is inland in our test game.
I will work on an updated test game shortly.
I don't think the exploring WB is urgent yet since we need Writing to get trade routes - we can time a WB shortly before we tech writing. Looks to me like we still stick to the plan.
It's kinda surprising that Cathy would not have a 2nd city by now.
The good news is that the GLH is not far from us.
By the way, Cathy is already in the test save. However, I will relocate her with another AI that would likely be in the proximate position to send a wb to us that soon, plus she is inland in our test game.
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UPDATED TEST SAVE
Test Save:
http://hotfile.com/dl/109706565/358efa7/SGOTM13_TESTGAME_1_BC-2575.CivBeyondSwordSave.html
I think I got this right on track. Note that I basically have to duplicate the turnsets in the test game.
I switched Catherine's position with Ragnar's position in WB, which gives her a nice coastal city to the west of our position. She may actually be closer in the live game, but we will just have to adjust that as we go along. I added the GLH to Moscow and removed it from London. Obviously, their tech paces will be off from the live game, but there's not much we can do about it now - I can adjust techs for AIs later.
In order to meet Cathy, I WB'd a workboat in at the same position as BB game on Turn 55. Interestingly, Cathy did not move the wb for two turns until I moved it for here. I think it must take a few turns for the new units to register with the AI.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
kadazzle said:
IIRC, we don't need to have a Russian city mapped out to get the trade benefits of OB. We'll just need to tech Writing. Though I am curious how close Cathy is since she doesn't start with Fishing.
Incidentally (and I know it's waaay early for this), what is the quickest path we can afford to take to get to Gunpowder? The bare minimum after Priesthood/MC is Writing / Monarchy / Feudalism / Machinery / Guilds / Gunpowder. We'd also need HBR and IW to use Knights.
Are there any techs aside from this path that we absolutely need if we are able to get Oracle/Colossus/Mids(optional)? In fact, teching Gunpowder this early would only be a possibility if we got TC and spammed island cities for the trade. I am not sure of that right now, but may get a chance to investigate it later.
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You can get to Gunpowder via Edu too which may be quicker with GS bulbs and some of those techs in that path may not be priorities.
Knights are pretty lame. I'd rather go Curs if we have that option. Too soon to tell really.
I think you need to reveal fog to create a path to a city for trade routes so I don' think they would be automatic with Writing. Still Writing is some ways off at the moment, so just rushing out a WB at the expense of the plan seems less a priority at the moment.
Knights are pretty lame. I'd rather go Curs if we have that option. Too soon to tell really.
I think you need to reveal fog to create a path to a city for trade routes so I don' think they would be automatic with Writing. Still Writing is some ways off at the moment, so just rushing out a WB at the expense of the plan seems less a priority at the moment.
