SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

If happy at size 8, Delhi will want to run an engineer specialist, along with 3 mines, copper, corn FPfarm and a Gfarm. We have uses for a GEngineer if we get one.
 
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to get Walls built in SheepTown after the Granary. With Stone and OR (Hindu spread? :please:) it's only 23 base hammers. The next border pop for 60% defense will come too late to help protecting from Toku's next attack wave. It will increase our odds considerably. Toku has Math now and is perhaps on his way to Construction for Catapults -> we want Walls then anyway.

In order to aim for a GE in Delhi next it is nice to get a maximum GPP overflow from all possible sources (also Kashi Priests!) the turn we get our GProphet as these overflow GPPs are 'uncoined' and do not influence the chances of the following GP.
 
DanF5771 said:
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to get Walls built in SheepTown after the Granary. With Stone and OR (Hindu spread? :please:) it's only 23 base hammers. The next border pop for 60% defense will come too late to help protecting from Toku's next attack wave. It will increase our odds considerably. Toku has Math now and is perhaps on his way to Construction for Catapults -> we want Walls then anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's probably wise. Also I like the idea someone put forward of putting 5 hammers into an axe in case we need to whip one.

DanF5771 said:
In order to aim for a GE in Delhi next it is nice to get a maximum GPP overflow from all possible sources (also Kashi Priests!) the turn we get our GProphet as these overflow GPPs are 'uncoined' and do not influence the chances of the following GP.
Click to expand...

Nice - but not a big effect on flavour. Our :gp: sources will be SH (2), Kashi (1), AP(2), Pyr(2), engineer(3). Our odds will still be around 50%, depending exactly when we run what. It will help shave a turn off the next GPerson arrival, though, because we can overflow most of SH+Kashi plus 3 priests, so long as we're prepared to bear any cost of slowing down the initial GProphet.
 
I agree a wall in SheepTown would be nice and having 5 hammers on an axe would be nice (but granary first). If the extra 10% in defense it saves just 1 axe it is worth it.

And yes I agree run a few mines instead of a few priests for the AP rather than the colorless gp advantage DanF mentioned. (Thanks for the tip though, I always thought those excess gp carried the taint of their origin)

And yes the turn after the GPro is born I think Delhi should start running a engineer specialist no stop. (instead of a mine if still at pop 7)
 
bcool said:
I agree a wall in SheepTown would be nice and having 5 hammers on an axe would be nice (but granary first). If the extra 10% in defense it saves just 1 axe it is worth it.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's especially useful for our fortified unpromoted Axes. The extra +10% help them pass a jump point so that Toku's C1CR1 Axes will need 7 combat rounds for a kill instead of 6 and thus only have 12% winning odds compared to 22.5% without the Wall.

re GE: Priest specialists give 1:hammers: too and we would only assign them for 1 turn, so we'd trade 3:food: + 6 base :hammers: (not working 3 hills) for 18 clean :gp: and 3 :gold: ... I think it's worth it but won't grieve about a contrary decision of the team. :)
 
I like the idea of the wall and one turn on an axeman after the granary. I do like Dan's GPP overflow, but can live with the hammers toward the AP too. I am not a big fan of the whips on cities with a population of two and three.

I am happy for WW to play his turnset today.
 
I guess the question is does 3 food and 6 hammers produce the AP a turn earlier or not?

Probably too hard to answer. I think we are going to get a chance at the great engineer before we are ready to research machinery in either case.

I'm happy either way too.

And Walter_Wolf, you might want to turn on see enemy moves (and turn off quick moves).
 
bcool said:
And Walter_Wolf, you might want to turn on see enemy moves (and turn off quick moves).
Click to expand...

Thought of that. Will do it.
I am currently looking at the granary/walls build at Sheeptown. Don't have much time, but will look into it before playing.

It can get to 32/60 in the granary T83, and walls are done in 4 turns working sheep, gold and G mine. If I don't whip the granary immediately, can slow build the walls or whip them in case of emergency.

Any beter ideas?
 
I like DanF5771's explanation for building the wall.

I also favor maximum gpp when the Great Prophet is born, though I'm not sure I understand exactly how that works and how we can best take advantage of it.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Walter_Wolf said:
Thought of that. Will do it.
I am currently looking at the granary/walls build at Sheeptown. Don't have much time, but will look into it before playing.

It can get to 32/60 in the granary T83, and walls are done in 4 turns working sheep, gold and G mine. If I don't whip the granary immediately, can slow build the walls or whip them in case of emergency.

Any beter ideas?
Click to expand...

With corn access likely this turn set, whipping SheepTown below size 3 should be an act of desperation. I said this earlier, and regret not seeing the suggestion of a whip in the PPP so far.

I suggest we start the walls immediately, add the Gmine at size 3, put one turn on an axeman after walls, and go back to the granary. If we get corn T88, then this route gets the granary done by T93, at which point the food bin is about half full. Sounds good to me.
 
bcool said:
I guess the question is does 3 food and 6 hammers produce the AP a turn earlier or not?

Probably too hard to answer. I think we are going to get a chance at the great engineer before we are ready to research machinery in either case.

I'm happy either way too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, running an engineer next will get us 2+2+1 prophet points and 2+3 engineer points. Philo doubles that, and we get the next (400) great person in 20 more turns. We have plenty of things like IW and Compass to finish before Mach becomes a priority, in addition to Currency (and I'm not yet convinced of the need to tech Currency ahead of VC-critical techs). So I'm not too worried by GPerson timing, and figure we may as well have the AP ASAP.
 
Walter_Wolf said:
I didn't mention the road 1S1W of Sheeptown in the pre-final PPP. I think it's a very important one, and it is one of the turnset goals, so if safe, I would build it with Eiffel.

This is the original plan from the PPP:

Eiffel
T80 - finish the mine 1S of cowstown.
T81 - move 1S, build mine.
T83 - move to 1S of deer, build mine (for cowtown).
T87- move to 1W of gold, build mine.

If the situation allows it, the change:

T83 onwards is different:

Eiffel
T80 - finish the mine 1S of Cowstown.
T81 - move 1S, build mine.
T83 - move to 1S1W of Sheeptown, build road.
T85 - move to 1W of gold, mine, wake.
T86 - move to 1S of deer, build mine (for cowtown).

The mine 1S of deer can wait a few turns anyway, cause Cowtown can use the mine 1N of gold.
Click to expand...

No comments on the road issue. If Eiffel builds it, Cowtown won't have a mine to add at growth T86. The original plan was to whip Sheeptown, so Cowtown would have used the mine 2S of the city (the one Sheeptown will be using).
Cooke needs 7 turns to reach Delhi which will become unhappy T91 (T90 probably if I keep the farm bcool suggested), so T84 is the last moment to start moving.
 
Walter_Wolf said:
No comments on the road issue. If Eiffel builds it, Cowtown won't have a mine to add at growth T86. The original plan was to whip Sheeptown, so Cowtown would have used the mine 2S of the city (the one Sheeptown will be using).
Click to expand...

Happy to plan to build the road if safe. Be alert for a road appearing 1NW of Tokyo. If so, there's a theoretical chance of a chariot, but we've seen no evidence of horses so don't worry much. I'm not much worried by the new T86 population in CowTown having nothing to do. Gforest is OK, 1-pop whipping an axe is OK, and I'm hoping for corn to arrive soon, and when it does CowTown can have the shared Gmine for a bit. Do keep a turn-by-turn record of the culture on the corn tile to help judge the timing. The ratio will not approach 50-50 in a linear fashion, however.

Walter_Wolf said:
Cooke needs 7 turns to reach Delhi which will become unhappy T91 (T90 probably if I keep the farm bcool suggested), so T84 is the last moment to start moving.
Click to expand...

I'd get moving T84, then. The trireme will take over some scouting duties at about that time, so Cook's usefulness as a scout will be limited.
 
Last minute change for Sheeptown:

walls for 5 turns, 1T axeman for a possible emergency whip, continue granary.
 
Loading game

Interesting...

New AI met. Shakagawa:
Spoiler :



The bad news is Cristianity has been founded in a distand land. Just one Tokugawa axeman moved from Osaka to the forest 1S of corn.
We didn't talk about this, I don't recall. I guess we better hurry with chopping the AP out. I hope we have a chance.

T82

Toku is willing to talk. He is moving an axe and spear towards Tokyo. The axe and spear are still camping on the hill 1S1E of Sheepgold.
The price for peace is Sheeptown :).

T83

The Pyramids got built in a distant land.
 

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