SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[mabraham]

Good point. With a road and an extra bowman in the city, that could mean a dead warrior, lost worker and an unwanted war on our hands.

Yeah, sounds too high for the possible reward.

About the research: I don't follow it; you won't be able to make me understand; and I would have to see it tested to form an opinion. I am also not the spreadsheet guy.

Yeah me too. Do something you think is sensible.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yeah me too. Do something you think is sensible.

Okay. In the test game, all the time, we got exactly enough for BW right in time. No OF. The problem with the reall game, we are assured the second Toku will get BW in time to get the 6% discount. Meaning a loss of one beaker, that cost us one worker turn.

By multiple testings, I noticed the amount of remaining cash was 4 . I needed 37 out the 41 accumulated for all the teching.
In the real game, we are likely to get as high as 8 due to lower maintenance.
Which means I actually only need 33 . 50% on this turn will bring +4 to a total of 34 . Just enough.

I tried to calculate the possible gains and losses, but I started to mess everything up.
Anyways, one turn of possible little inefficiency is nothing compared to BW in time.

 

[Manco Capac]

You know what; screw that.
I'll do the 50% just having in mind I have BW in time.
Without Dan and his perfect calculi, I just mud myself in something I don't fully get.

Take this as not sensible for the few gained beakers.
Or perhaps, let down the free beaker from no OF due to Hunting and work 50% for that tech without enough discount (0.06).
Perhaps, it is better because BW has 20% and 100 % is always good on a strong multiplier.

Vote for 50% on Hunting? There's only you, mabraham.

 

[mabraham]

You know what; screw that.
I'll do the 50% just having in mind I have BW in time.
Without Dan and his perfect calculi, I just mud myself in something I don't fully get.

Take this as not sensible for the few gained beakers.
Or perhaps, let down the free beaker from no OF due to Hunting and work 50% for that tech without enough discount (0.06).
Perhaps, it is better because BW has 20% and 100 % is always good on a strong multiplier.

Vote for 50% on Hunting? There's only you, mabraham.

Sounds fine. Err on the side of getting BW on schedule.

 

[Manco Capac]

T34 - I noticed Toku of Japan settled his second city. Assuming he settles right at the same where I tested, then it seems there are no horses or copper. And DanF proved somewhere in S&T subforum, AI won't settle near invisible resource knowingly. Iron is then out. Stupid bear forced me to retreat. What to do now to observe his settlement.

T35 - Oh! The Worker is gone. The I guess Hamuragawa doesn't even have mining.
Then no chance for soonish BW for an additional 3%. Then the 50% was somewhat necessary.

T36 - Nice a Toku of Japan scout fogbusting the south of Hamuragawa for more safety.
Woah! Hamuragawa invested 2 EP on us and Toku 0. Which means something interesting is up. Some peaceful clan on the other side.
Okay for the small passage? The soonish border pop will assure us peace of mind thanks to early hindu autospread.

T37 - That's true. Toku of Japan stopped putting EP on us. Still 64 EP for two turns.
And Hamuragawa is putting half his palace capacity.
Do I go on that forest with Amundsen? The river assures an additional 25% against the possible bear.

T38 - Lion on the side of river bank. Amundsen won without a scratch. What a warrior! Not like that sissy Toto.
Toku scout will help us to reach safely the unwooded passage. Toku has found another worst foe while we are the one. No more EP from him. Still 64 EP. Hammuragawa up to 115 EP.
Passage proven wrong. Heading back for fogbust. But that river sure is long.
The exploratory session almost finished because we are boxed northward too.

T39 - Dang! Hamuragawa got BW just in time. After all, the 50% was useless.

T40 - Turnset finished. SH ours. Hammuragawa got his second city in the north. Still putting 2 EP on us. Change GW for Worker to avoid mistake. BW will do it in time if ever we maintain -3 maintenace, but I think it'll work given the small OF.

 

[mabraham]

Okay for the small passage? The soonish border pop will assure us peace of mind thanks to early hindu autospread.

Fine to move to forest. Consider one more if there still might be a passage through the wall.

T37 - That's true. Toku of Japan stopped putting EP on us. Still 64 EP for two turns.
And Hamuragawa is putting half his palace capacity.
Do I go on that forest with Amundsen? The river assures an additional 25% against the possible bear.

Forest+C1 plus two-third chance of +25% from river is fine.

 

[DanF5771]

Very nice turn set, Tachy!
Ammundsen = awesome big game hunter? maybe rename him to Patterson.

Glad to see we didn't lose Stonehenge on T39.

Very cool to get the Hindu spread to Bombay at the first possible moment.

I'm afraid Toku has settled the Corn, most likely 1NE of it just like in our tests.
Although we don't see Japanese culture yet we can tell because the Corn graphics have changed due to Toku working it:


(graphics from a test game)

I'd very much like to see another turn played, so that Bombay can pop its borders for increased vision over the NE peaky narrows (maybe find other AI culture?) and Ammundsen move either 1NE or 1SE (not sure about Bears) to verify Japanese culture on the hill 1E of Sheep.

Yeah you're right, 1-more-turn-syndrome of the severe kind.

maxPlotDistance = 64 verified from Bombay's city maintenance, so we'll stay at -3 total expenses with Delhi @5 during next turn set.

Very interesting to see both of our neighbors diverting EPs to someone else.

I didn't know about sentries in choke points altering barb behavior, gotta go digging...

edit: oh and Hammu is bragging about Axemen... (Toku still only has Archers).

 

[Manco Capac]

^Gotta love bragging function when I attack even a deity AI with a warrior. It is almost a weakness to let them brag until we get too strong and the bragger shut in.

Good point about the corn. The only land modification I know so far is the disappearance of forests.

Sorry for the lack of after-play screenshots. Yesterday, the forum server went down for good.
I shall do something later. Too tired right now.

BUT...the save is uploaded on GOTM server.

================================================================

Reference number: 11517
Game: C-IV SGOTM 15
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Tachywaxon
Date submitted: 2012-02-17
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 2400BC
Player race: India
Firaxis score: 115
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 02:31:34
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 06:02:42
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Gandhi BC-2400 - kakumeika SGOTM15.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG015_BC2400_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.


Here is your Session Turn Log from 2840 BC to 2400 BC:


Turn 30, 2800 BC: You have discovered Masonry!

Turn 32, 2720 BC: Bombay has been founded.
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Gandhi's Amundsen (Warrior) (1.98) vs Barbarian's Lion (0.94)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Combat Odds: 98.4%
Turn 32, 2720 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: (Animal Combat: -10%)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Gandhi's Amundsen (Warrior) is hit for 16 (74/100HP)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Gandhi's Amundsen (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!
Turn 32, 2720 BC: Hinduism has spread in Bombay.

Turn 33, 2680 BC: Tokugawa adopts Slavery!

Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Gandhi's Amundsen (Warrior) (3.90)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Combat Odds: 1.0%
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Gandhi's Amundsen (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 38, 2480 BC: Delhi will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 38, 2480 BC: You have discovered Hunting!
Turn 38, 2480 BC: Hammuragawa adopts Slavery!

Turn 39, 2440 BC: Delhi has grown to size 4.
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Bombay will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 39, 2440 BC: Gandhi has completed Stonehenge!

Turn 40, 2400 BC: Bombay has grown to size 2.
Turn 40, 2400 BC: The borders of Bombay are about to expand.

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I don't mind to finish T40 later. shulec can't I think. No internet access for now, I mean him...not me.

 

[bcool]

Nice job Tachy!

Walter_Wolf ... waiting
mabraham ... waiting
WastinTime ... waiting
Kaitzilla ... skipping for whole round?
Tachywaxon ... waiting
shulec ... UP NOW
bcool ... on deck
Sun Tzu Wu ... in the hole

I should be able to take the turnset after shulec since my high school robotics team will finally be finished with their robot so I won't have to be at school late every night.

I'm not sure if Kaitzilla wants to take a turn after shulec or after myself? I think shulec is preparing to take the next turn set, so that is why I don't offer the current turn set.

Tachy, will you have time to update the test game in the next 24 hours?

If Tachy wants to play one more turn that seems reasonable to me.

 

[Manco Capac]

Here are some tests. I even added some improvement under their range to attract them, but seems the barbs have different plans. The number of warriors won't change the fact when a barb spawn near, he will go after you, strong or not on raging barb.

 

[Manco Capac]

Tachy, will you have time to update the test game in the next 24 hours?

Oops. I did it yesterday for shulec, but forgot to add it for the team. Ah yes, the forum server.

Here's the updated test game. Lands are not updated. Anyways, sooner or later, we'll have to remake the whole map with respective AI's.

 

[DanF5771]

In the test game, beware if we get spontaneous spread of hinduism in a secondary city. I remove it so it doesn't alter the test. I find that it strips the holy city of it holy city status. Don't forget to put that back via world builder.

Interesting finding ... this has nothing to do with our test game at hand but appears to be a general bug of the World Builder -- removing a religion from a city sets the Holy City of that faith to <none> ...

 

[mabraham]

I'm happy for someone to play one more turn, for confirmation of Toku settling and the border pop. I can't think there's anything in the micro we'd want to change at this stage.

Do agree between yourselves, shulec and Tachy.

 

[mabraham]

Team Summary (which might not happen again unless someone can help me... anyone?)

OK here's a draft. Comments anyone?

T1-10 Resolved to tech Polytheism (for the Hinduism constraint) first, then Agriculture. Preferred to move to stone to settler there (unless anything better presented) for the 3 hammers from central tile. That's inefficient in the long term, but very good early, and the latter is important for a SGOTM race. We toyed with a settler-first opening, but couldn't get better results than with worker-first. Even with Agriculture delayed by Polytheism, there's three Gmines to improve and they're good tiles to have improved. Met Tokugawa.

T10-19 Founded Hindu T14. Met Hammuragawa.

T20-29 Teched Masonry next, to make a serious go at SH and TGW to show profit from our settling decision. Whether to finish them or collect fail gold is unsure.

T30-40 Decided to settle north along the river (trade routes for stone, gold and free thanks to the capital's Hindu-fueled border pop) with gold and deer, building TGW there while growing. Not sure yet whether we want to finish it. Planning to Oracle MC around T62 using marble from the next border pop in the capital and some chops. Currently planning a religious VC needing caravels. Expected Toku to settle 1NE of corn in the meantime, based on testing. Many animals, so far our warriors are boss, unlike stupid Toto last SGOTM. Teched Hunting next for the deer, then BW. Got lucky Hindu spread first turn. Finished SH T39.

 

[WastinTime]

when did Oracle slip to T63? I thought is was 61 (if we were really aggressive) or more likely 62

 

[mabraham]

when did Oracle slip to T63? I thought is was 61 (if we were really aggressive) or more likely 62

My bad.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Nice Turnset Tachywaxon!


I'd be happy to play the turnset after Shulec if that is ok.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Oh yeah, we still get under 99%. 2XP's. Shame I couldn't test because the game was open.

EDIT: Sometimes, I don't understand odds and this is not the first time. I know by fact under 99% is definitely 2XP's. I had something 98,3? %.
I got 1 XP. Weird. But we are lowly damaged.

When odds are just less than 99%, only Deity level will provide 2 XPs for a successful attack.

Why is the plot labeled "Choke Point" a better one than the plot SE of it with a forest?

Congratulations Tachy, on an especially well played turn set!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'd be happy to play the turnset after Shulec if that is ok.

Fine with me. Go for it!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Manco Capac]

edit: oh and Hammu is bragging about Axemen... (Toku still only has Archers).

Yes. It was a good remark. I did some verification for the very early turns of my turn-set, but forgot to pursue. Thus any worker stealing is completely forbidden. Too much damages would come afterwards. And I now understand why the worker suddenly disappearance after paving that road onto the PH, Hammuragawa must have detected urgent-to-be-improved copper. And that copper is out of reach.

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mabraham has doubts of the utility of the TGW. If ever that would be a stopped project wonder, then we should fogbusting more. If ever no copper were found, we would be vulnerable.

Lands around Hammuragawa is easy to fogbust; but I recomment the use of neck of land as impassable passage. I think the barbs target a city to pillage in a "Go to" way so such function won't find any reasonable path to reach the target. Therefore why the barbs gives up us as target. I forgot to mention this, but even non-combat units may be of use for the blockade, assuring the barb isn't passing by inadvertantly, where such situation brings the barb to attack immediately.
Sure, this has no use here, but a game with a scout may brings some early uses to the scout.

Anyways, are we still gunning for the GW?