SGOTM 16 - Kakumeika

Kaitzilla · Oct 12, 2012

LowtherCastle said:
No. FOr Orleans it's:
Orleans - T62 with BW trade by T55 (BW could be somewhat later if we built a worker in Paris)
Orleans - T65 with BW, after math
Orleans - T67 without BW whatoever.

T55 Phood. Hammers are like this:
T56 (4h OF + 8h) * 150% = 18h
T57-T62 6t * 8hpt * 150% = 72h
T60-T61 2 chops @ 20h * 150% = 60h
Total: 150h

Yes. Like this:

T56 (4h OF + 8h) * 150% = 18h
T57-T67 11t * 8hpt * 150% = 132h
Total: 150h

Then #3 would be a T63 Oracle and #5 a T68 Oracle. #3 assumes we self tech BW by T60 somehow or get it in a trade. Hmmm

LowtherCastle · Oct 12, 2012

Kaitzilla said:
So far I'm leaning Paris because we aren't required to research BW to get it done T64. If we do get BW through trade, then it should get done T61..

When do we need to get BW to finish on T61, T62, T63, with chops? Is it T58, T59, T60?

Okay, so starting T55 and no BW, Paris can finish the Oracle on T63:

2t @ 18hpt = 36h
6t @ 19hpt = 114h

Cost (approx):
74c
22t not building cottages = 22c (over time)
24GS gpp + 24b

with 1 chop, T62:

1t @ 12hpt = 12h
6t @ 18hpt = 108h
1 chop = 30h, need BW by T59, with wkr on forest waiting.

with 2 chops, T61, per your schedule.

===

Does any of you have a test save for the T61 and T64 Paris ORacle? I'd like to compare beaker production.

LowtherCastle · Oct 12, 2012

Kaitzilla said:
Then #3 would be a T63 Oracle and #5 a T68 Oracle. #3 assumes we self tech BW by T60 somehow or get it in a trade. Hmmm

No. Sorry, I thought I had switched to your notation. T62 and T67 Oracle appears on our screens.

In other words, when I show T56 18h, that's hammers from T55.

Walter_Wolf · Oct 12, 2012

It's me again with the spreadsheets :mischief:

Spoiler :

It's the T63 orleans Oracle plan assuming we get

T55 Priesthood,
T60 or sooner BW and the slave survives and gets to one of Orleans forests (ideally 1W, but have to see again) that turn and
T62 Mathematics.

(a lot of if's)

The stars have to allign perfectly for this to work, and Paris should probably stretch to give T62 Math (if at all possible), and maybe the backup worker if slave doesn't make it.

Was that what you had in mind LowtherCastle?

Please tell me if I mistyped something again, or understood something wrong.

EDIT: That Library T54 was intended to be Research, but mabraham didn't implement it. I like the looks of the 8h OF from the Oracle into the Library last turn.

cheers

EDIT 2: This is the turn count left for the cottages/hamlets to grow.

Spoiler :

EDIT 3: ... and Paris backup T58 worker running max commerce / research:

Spoiler :

have to sum up the bakers. I'll probably need help with it.

LowtherCastle · Oct 12, 2012

@Walter

Actually, I started working the 2 PHF on T55, plus I delayed the warrior build 1t and worked 1 PHF on T54 so the warrior gave 4raw-h OF into the Oracle. That gives me 90 final-h into the Oracle on T62, plus two chops, so the Oracle is complete on T62. (Math doesn't complete till T64 by my best effort so far.)

Your plan of growing to p4 first gives me a new idea that I can try out. Maybe we can get math back to T63, for a T64 Oracle, including the two math whips. By completing the cottage and working those two until p4, math might complete on T63. We'll see.

Walter_Wolf · Oct 12, 2012

Yes, I made some "so called" calculations, and ended up some 30 bakers short for T62 Math.
Assuming 100 % slider, which won't happen. We'll hopefully get some pillage gold, but would probably have to dance around 80 - 90% slider most of the time.

So it's a T64 two chops plan with no math. Same turn as Paris slow building it, but this plan requires BW by T61.

I like it.

EDIT: Would it be worth selfresearching BW? hmmm. wasted bakers?

WastinTime · Oct 12, 2012

LowtherCastle said:
...including the two math whips.

What's a 'math whip'?

LowtherCastle · Oct 12, 2012

WastinTime said:
What's a 'math whip'?

That's a typo. Sorry: Math chops.

LowtherCastle · Oct 12, 2012

I wonder if we can estimate Ramesses's research rate. His last tech (probably Pottery), he finished T41 (score +5). 10 turns is quite a bit at this point, or is it?

Spoiler :

EDIT2:
On T46 Ramesses went from 6ept to 7ept. Assuming he was running 20% ep slider and 20% commerce slider to pay for city maintenance, that could easily mean his cpt went from 14 to 15 giving the extra 1ept. Research slider at 60% gives 12bpt on a 1-prereq tech. That puts BW at about T57, unless he speeds it up by running the commerce slider at 10%.

EDIT3:
Hm...how much do AIs pay for techs on emporer? I completely forgot about any discount they get...

EDIT4:
I opened up a new emporer game and the AI seems to need 13t * 12bpt = 156 b for BW. Does that sound right? That would mean about 12-13t, or T53-T54 for Ramesses!!! Or for Poly a couple turns less, so Ramesses would complete it by about T51-T52 at the latest. That's more like it.

..

Walter_Wolf · Oct 12, 2012

I could play up to T55 in 22 hrs using micro from the sheets, post 864.
Then decide tre rest of TS. BW tradable or not.

We would need to decide paris build by then:
bckup worker or settler or (?spy?).

research 80 - 90 medit, phood. 100% after bronze pillage.

LowtherCastle · Oct 12, 2012

Math T63, T63/T64 Oracle in Orleans. BW needed by T59. Eve escorted the slave all the way to the silk tile: 1W-1W-1NW(silk) instead of the slave risking the jump to the unprotected silk. GS/academy on T67. Pillaged the copper once for 12g, which I used. COuld have pillaged another mine, but didn't.

Have a look.

Kaitzilla · Oct 12, 2012

bcool said:
....

When you state the turn/year research is completed (or any other event), please use the turn you get the report. ****This is a change from the last game**** So if the research for polytheism shows it will be completed at the end of T12 then when T13 starts we get the report of our completion of polytheism. Please report that polytheism finished on T13. Or if we build an axeman and it will finish at the end of T25, report that it finished on T26 (the first turn that we can actually move the axeman).
...

Just a reminder on the format we use

I will try to post tonight every possible combination discussed so far into a single post with a test game and a micro list so we can choose which one we want to do instead of argue over what's possible :crazyeye:

Assumed goal that we are working towards, since every strategy always builds off of goals: Fastest Oracle with biggest secondary benefits

Using Shulec's updated T49 Test game and updating all the tech trades, we test the following:

1) T61 Oracle in Paris (Get Bronze Working from Egypt on T56 or earlier to help make a worker decision)

Spoiler :

2) T64 Oracle in Paris (Different worker moves starting T56 than the T61 Oracle. Does not require Bronze Working)

Spoiler :

3)T63 Oracle in Orleans (Get Bronze Working from Egypt by T55. Use 2nd worker from Paris for 2nd chop)

Spoiler :

4) T64 Oracle in Orleans (Get Bronze Working from Egypt by T59. Use enslaved worker for 2nd chop. Slow build a settler in Paris on T50 while running scientists to get Mathematics for T63 chops)

Spoiler :

Kaitzilla · Oct 12, 2012

Tachywaxon said:
It's the beta version of WDWTST...for dummies. It may not look awesome, but you don't imagine the number of hours the whole project took....oh not you don't and WHATEVER...
I finally understood the code at 95%. Took awhile to track back to the very origin some obscure "ifs" like that one for hero units, which don't exist in normal games...

Spoiler :

No idea if Excel is enough polymorphic as a program to translate all those french excel functions into its equivalent in english. Otherwise, I'll to change them manually...including those arguments separators...
BTW, I made numerous test and YES BARB UNITS DO AFFECT MTKP *bipolar mode*.

Whoa Mama! :eek:

I smell a very popular Civ 4 strategy section article brewing! Polymorphiclicious

Kaitzilla · Oct 12, 2012

shulec said:
I don't feel we need the spies that soon. We have a greater need for settlers, granaries, workers (depending on our stealing) and wonders. IW will not be needed for a gems site as one of the next city sites.

If we are able to get chariots (with Oracle in Orleans), we should be able to prevent iron hookup even without knowledge of iron location.

I agree. Spies are something that 3rd and 4th cities build.

WastinTime · Oct 13, 2012

Kaitzilla said:
I agree. Spies are something that 3rd and 4th cities build.

I guess since we have horses, we don't really care about iron, so the IW steal is not a priority. Sounds fine.

Kaitzilla · Oct 13, 2012

I ran out of time to fully flesh out all the options today. :mad:

Sorry

I'm starting to like LTC's worker first in Paris compromise.

If we can get Bronze Working by T56, then a T63 Oracle in Orleans is pretty easy with storing 4 :hammers:

overflow from the warrior build using Research (Although the micro to do it is strange). It lets us build a settler after the worker and never stop using the cottages.

If we don't get Bronze Working by T56, then we can just build Oracle in Paris.

I would vote in favor of this if the team wanted to do it.

I still don't like running scientists at the expense of a 3rd city, or doing settler first in Paris instead of a 2nd worker. The enslaved worker has no guarantee of making it home.

LowtherCastle · Oct 13, 2012

Option 4 is about 5-7 turns ahead of the other options. That's 150-225 :science:

. This SG is basically a tech race.

Walter_Wolf · Oct 13, 2012

Thank you for the detailed different options compilation Kaitzilla.
It was my job as the active player probably, but I could never had made such a great work. Sorry.

Walter_Wolf · Oct 13, 2012

I'm getting T64 Math, not 63.
Working cottages in Orleans, and used two math chops for the Oracle, and just 1 sci in Paris.

Spoiler :

LowtherCastle said:
Math T63, T63/T64 Oracle in Orleans. BW needed by T59. Eve escorted the slave all the way to the silk tile: 1W-1W-1NW(silk) instead of the slave risking the jump to the unprotected silk. GS/academy on T67. Pillaged the copper once for 12g, which I used. COuld have pillaged another mine, but didn't.

Have a look.

I got just 4 gold. thats 3 turns of 100 % research difference.

LowtherCastle · Oct 13, 2012

Kaitzilla said:
4) T64 Oracle in Orleans (Get Bronze Working from Egypt by T59. Use enslaved worker for 2nd chop. Slow build a settler in Paris on T50 while running scientists to get Mathematics for T63 chops)

Spoiler :

Here's the MM for this option. It's pretty much auto-pilot until aroung T59. Then the Orleans MM is hairy depending on how much cash we get fomr the copper pillage. Using Kaitzilla's format:

Spoiler :

xpost: Walter, try this and see how it works. Unfortunately, I forgot to note how much plunder I got. In just a second I'll give you a list of jump-points for math.

Here you go:

Code:

Some jump-points for math with no one else knowing it:

raw final beakers
---  ---
 28   34
 29   36 <=== +1b

 33   40
 34   42 <=== +1b

 38   46
 39   48 <=== +1b

"raw beakers" means amount of beakers you see in the upper-left corner after 
adjusting the research slider. If you can't be on the jumpm-point, you want to be 
just greater than, not just less than.

Edit: Eve escrots the slave all the way to the silk. Lousis escorts it until it's safe to run free toward our borders (circa T57)

..

SGOTM 16 - Kakumeika

Lord Croissant

Deity

Deity

King

Attachments

Deity

King

Deity

Deity

Deity

King

Deity

Attachments

Lord Croissant

Attachments

Lord Croissant

Lord Croissant

Deity

Lord Croissant

Deity

King

King

Attachments

Deity

Similar threads