SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[SteelHorse]

Don't forget the civics switch. Hopefully we are switching to Rep; what else?
We aren't relying on garrisons for much happiness. I assume learned Rep after the GA started.
The Great General sitting in Paris isn't satisfying the people's need to feel safe. Maybe a unit should be moved there sometime.
Are we going to build privateers?

Yup - Phase 2 of civic swapping before end of GA.
I actually got the GG about 3 turns ago and was waiting to see if we were going to plan an attack on SB. If so, settle in our HE city.

No need for Privateers until we agree strategy, in my opinion.

 

[SteelHorse]

A few privateers would be great, mainly to protect our continent from foreign spies.

OK. How does this work? Are we going to terrorize all incoming vessels? Or is the some special spy detection mechanic that I am unaware of?

 

[Revent]

OK. How does this work? Are we going to terrorize all incoming vessels? Or is the some special spy detection mechanic that I am unaware of?

Just kill off Caravels that come towards us.

However, that comes with the potential loss of religion spread (although this may not be necessary)!

 

[SteelHorse]

Half of a vassals land counts towards the domination limit. There is at least another 10% on our continent.

Thanks. Sad to admit I did not know that.

I still kind of like paris & gp farm as the leading candidates. I know paris has an academy, but it also has a lot of ancient culture buildings. Running artists will still produce 3 bpt before its 135% multipliers. It has enough hammers to build more cathedrals and other culture buildings, it has towns in case we need slider at the end.

GP Farm has NE obviously, and will be running artists for culture bombs. It has existing culture buildings and has enough hammers to build the multipliers required. So it seems reasonable to me

OK - I am convinced on GPF. Since it will likely need t crank out GArts.

Commerce is a pure science play, and once it finishes its levee, it can work towns & scientists exclusively and still have lotsof hammers.

I am going to push the point and ask what are we going to do with the hammers? Why not have Commerce run scientist instead of building levee? While it will generate more hammers than it costs, I am not sure those hammers will out produce sci specialists in beakers.

Heliopolis will be a hammer monster, so will thebes. We can start preparing both of these to be culture backups, with expensive wonders and even buddhist & confused cathedrals (we should be building confused & buddhist temples everywhere)

OK. I like preparing at least one. I agree on Thebes.
Yes, Yes, and Yes on the temples and Shrines.

 

[SteelHorse]

At this stage I think most great people will be used for Corps, Golden Ages or Culture bombing. A GS at this stage gets us not much more beakers than 1 turn at 100%.

I agree with this. We will need to found the corps. The last shrine we may need to capture. I like the tech analysis and like the levee route given that I believe will need to both build building our 2nd culture city and an army to take the shrine and likely Dom Victory.

So I can get a 2 turn set in tomorrow if folks agree.

1. Tech: RP -> Steam
2. Civic Swap into Rep, Caste & Free Speech at end of turn 2.
3. Finish Rams and move troops toward Brens (declaration and bribing in other will be next turnset)
4. Move workers to prepare Thebes to be a hammer center. Mines, workshops, etc.
5. Start the Confused and Christian missionaries for GPF.
6. Produce a Sid Sushi exec and send to Prod
7. Whip Banks
8. Produce a Budd Missionary for Hammy
9. Move the garrison troop back into Paris.

After that DH can take over.

 

[SteelHorse]

Told you - the Sporks are taunting us.

 

[Deckhand]

I agree with this. We will need to found the corps. The last shrine we may need to capture. I like the tech analysis and like the levee route given that I believe will need to both build building our 2nd culture city and an army to take the shrine and likely Dom Victory.

So I can get a 2 turn set in tomorrow if folks agree.

1. Tech: RP -> Steam
2. Civic Swap into Rep, Caste & Free Speech at end of turn 2.
3. Finish Rams and move troops toward Brens (declaration and bribing in other will be next turnset)
4. Move workers to prepare Thebes to be a hammer center. Mines, workshops, etc.
5. Start the Confused and Christian missionaries for GPF.
6. Produce a Sid Sushi exec and send to Prod
7. Whip Banks
8. Produce a Budd Missionary for Hammy
9. Move the garrison troop back into Paris.

After that DH can take over.

Green from me.

 

[neilmeister]

Told you - the Sporks are taunting us.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[neilmeister]

I agree with this. We will need to found the corps. The last shrine we may need to capture. I like the tech analysis and like the levee route given that I believe will need to both build building our 2nd culture city and an army to take the shrine and likely Dom Victory.

So I can get a 2 turn set in tomorrow if folks agree.

1. Tech: RP -> Steam
2. Civic Swap into Rep, Caste & Free Speech at end of turn 2.
3. Finish Rams and move troops toward Brens (declaration and bribing in other will be next turnset)
4. Move workers to prepare Thebes to be a hammer center. Mines, workshops, etc.
5. Start the Confused and Christian missionaries for GPF.
6. Produce a Sid Sushi exec and send to Prod
7. Whip Banks
8. Produce a Budd Missionary for Hammy
9. Move the garrison troop back into Paris.

After that DH can take over.

Green from me

- Clams & Barb city to builds WB's
- Cancel the seafood exports
- Whip the sushi exec with 1 turn invested? This is the last exec we will whip.
- Sell Edu to Qin, sell/gift Economics next turn, bribe him into FM with RP.
- Sell/gift Hammy Constitution & Economics this turn, bribe him into FM with Lib (we really need them to go FM, and we need the +1 from sharing techs)
- Gift Sally Education this turn, Economics next turn, bribe him into FM.

Though we do already have 2 Christian mishes moving towards our core area.
I'm happy for 1 to go to GP Farm and the other to go to Paris, Thebes already has all 3 religions.
If we change our minds later, we can build another Christian mish for Heliopolis.

edit: how are we going to build a buddhist mish, we only have 18 buddhist monasteries...

 

[neilmeister]

I am going to push the point and ask what are we going to do with the hammers? Why not have Commerce run scientist instead of building levee? While it will generate more hammers than it costs, I am not sure those hammers will out produce sci specialists in beakers.

Commerce will grow from current pop of 15 to 26 (assuming 15 fpt from sushi and working all cottage tiles)
It currently has 1 spare healthy face, so we need ~10 more.
It will have 26 total unhappy faces (from crowding), and we have 22 happiness atm, so we need 4 more happy faces. (We will get some wonders, but some things like Ivory will become obsolete).

Therefore, it needs:
Theatre (50h), 1 happy
Colosseum (80h), 1 happy
Grocer (150h), 4 health, not to mention +25% gpt in our biggest commerce city
Hospital (200h), 3 health
Confused Temple (80h), 1 happy
Laboratory (250h), +25% bpt in our biggest research city
Supermarket (150), 4 health

Levee costs 180h to build, which is ~10 turns working both mines. Working 2 scientists during this period will produce 2 * 6 * 235% * 10t = 400 beakers.

Assuming we never work the mines again, and work every cottage available, the levee will boost its base hammers from 6hpt to 22hpt.

The list is 960 hammers, and these don't even include 'nice-to-have' items, they are all essential to maximise its population and output.

The laboratory alone makes the levee worth building.

edit: by the time we are building the laboratory, we will have ~10 scientists, and most if not all of the cottages will be towns, therefore we will have ~200 raw commerce a turn. The 25% bonus from the lab will be 50bpt, so if building the levee speeds up the lab by 8 or more turns, is is beaker positive.
The Lab will take 42 turns to build a 6hpt, or 12 at 22hpt. = 30 turns. Sure we could whip it, but that will cost us specialists, so its much the same equation

 

[Trystero]

I agree with this. We will need to found the corps. The last shrine we may need to capture. I like the tech analysis and like the levee route given that I believe will need to both build building our 2nd culture city and an army to take the shrine and likely Dom Victory.

So I can get a 2 turn set in tomorrow if folks agree.

1. Tech: RP -> Steam
2. Civic Swap into Rep, Caste & Free Speech at end of turn 2.
3. Finish Rams and move troops toward Brens (declaration and bribing in other will be next turnset)
4. Move workers to prepare Thebes to be a hammer center. Mines, workshops, etc.
5. Start the Confused and Christian missionaries for GPF.
6. Produce a Sid Sushi exec and send to Prod
7. Whip Banks
8. Produce a Budd Missionary for Hammy
9. Move the garrison troop back into Paris.

After that DH can take over.

Green from me!

 

[Trystero]

Told you - the Sporks are taunting us.

Looks like they are whipping out an army. The power rating has shot up.

 

[neilmeister]

The Sporks' power has overtaken ours!

The Ducks have also posted another save, and its the first one that looks ominous for us. Their power is tracking ours, though they did start the buildup earlier.

Hopefully they have just got a score bonus from conquering a bit faster than us,

I know I shouldn't read so much into the graphs..... but I can't help it.

 

[SteelHorse]

OK. Convinced on the Levee in Commerce.
Will play tonight.

 

[SteelHorse]

Green from me

- Clams & Barb city to builds WB's
- Cancel the seafood exports
- Whip the sushi exec with 1 turn invested? This is the last exec we will whip.
- Sell Edu to Qin, sell/gift Economics next turn, bribe him into FM with RP.
- Sell/gift Hammy Constitution & Economics this turn, bribe him into FM with Lib (we really need them to go FM, and we need the +1 from sharing techs)
- Gift Sally Education this turn, Economics next turn, bribe him into FM.

Though we do already have 2 Christian mishes moving towards our core area.
I'm happy for 1 to go to GP Farm and the other to go to Paris, Thebes already has all 3 religions.
If we change our minds later, we can build another Christian mish for Heliopolis.

edit: how are we going to build a buddhist mish, we only have 18 buddhist monasteries...

Thanks for mapping the trade/gifting plans. Will review tonight but look fine.
If memory serves we need 3 temples for each shrine. Are monasteries limited on the number of missionaries they can build? We want 3 shrines in each legendary city. Yes? You can tell that I have not focused too in culture victories in the past.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

If memory serves we need 3 temples for each shrine. Are monasteries limited on the number of missionaries they can build? We want 3 shrines in each legendary city. Yes? You can tell that I have not focused too in culture victories in the past.

Do you mean cathedrals? Shrines require great prophets.

p.s. just resurfaced, still unpacking, exhausted, looks like things are going great here!

 

[neilmeister]

Thanks for mapping the trade/gifting plans. Will review tonight but look fine.
If memory serves we need 3 temples for each shrine. Are monasteries limited on the number of missionaries they can build? We want 3 shrines in each legendary city. Yes? You can tell that I have not focused too in culture victories in the past.

Yes, at normal size map we need 3 temples to build a cathedral type building.

A city with a monastery can build as many missionaries as it likes

You can check on the city details screen how many religious buildings of each type we have

 

[Trystero]

A city with a monastery can build as many missionaries as it likes

I think you can only have 3 missionaries (per religion) active at one time (i.e. If you have 3 Confucian missionaries and expend 1 to spread religion, you can then build another).

 

[neilmeister]

I think you can only have 3 missionaries (per religion) active at one time (i.e. If you have 3 Confucian missionaries and expend 1 to spread religion, you can then build another).

Yes, that's correct. Sorry, I misunderstood the question.

I have just checked, we have:
- 14 Buddhist temples (enough for 4 buddhist Stupas, Paris already has one)
- No confused temples (19 cities infected, no missionaries)
- No christian temples (5 cities infected, 2 missionaries)

 

[SteelHorse]

Do you mean cathedrals? Shrines require great prophets.

p.s. just resurfaced, still unpacking, exhausted, looks like things are going great here!

Yes. Catherdrals.