SGOTM 18 - Kakumeika

[WastinTime]

we will need to put a turn or two into Theo to get it for MC. But then we're on to Paper. We will have paper about the same time you'd be finishing up Music. We are already about 20 turns behind the pace for Paper.

One was to salvage our situation is to get 2 GS's and use them to bulb Edu.

 

[WastinTime]

I like Literature to Mansa for 200 and Literature to Gandhi for Meditation+gold.

I only recalled Kaitzilla suggesting it.

 

[bcool]

Can we focus on what we can change?

 

[Seraiel]

No, we won't get Theology by putting in a turn or two. We have to put 250 into Theology to get it for MC and that are 4T at current pace. We'll get something like 10 on top of what we have 'til now, but it'll still be 3T + some Gold, and that's too much imho. It'd be the right choice should Mansa go for Music, but if he doesn't, the Great Artists nettos in more Beakers than the earlier Forges could pay up in Hammers, even with being IND.

Also: It doesn't matter what you like and also losses that were made must not be taken into account (economical rule) .

 

[WastinTime]

Can we focus on what we can change?

I think we're just killing time waiting for you to make the deciding vote on Music or MC. It sounded to me like you already voted for MC, but Seraiel has put up another argument for Music. So just make it clear to Seraiel if you're still for MC or not so he will play on without Music.

 

[WastinTime]

We may also have some conquest gold to spend on Theo if we get GK's capital

 

[WastinTime]

I'd like to trade Marble back to Dr. Evil after TGL completes...but that's a few turns away. while waiting for bcool to comment on Music, why don't you a play this turn since 100% math was approved.

I'm outta here for several hours. Good Luck!

 

[bcool]

There is a strong chance that the research we put into Music will not pay off as much as our research into Metal casting because Gandhi and possibly Mansa will attempt to research it as well.

That means we lose out on research that we can trade for something from them later on if we end up in a race with them for Music.

Metal Casting and forges will give us 1 happiness and better whips and multipliers on our hammers and forest chops. It is hard to measure how much this will help, but forges 10 turns earlier than not will make a significant positive impact on our ability to produce buildings/units.

Getting metal casting might mean we get the AI to focus on Tech that we want to trade for earlier like Machinery.

Even if we have to research theology for a turn or 2 to trade metal casting for theology I'm happy to skip Music.

Music gives us a free great artist and the ability to build culture. This isn't insignificant but there are good odds we will be able to trade for Music eventually.

The great artist has 3 potential uses
1) save for a mass media bulb (saving perhaps 2 or 3 turns of research --since by that time we will have a large empire which should be able to tech at a good pace)
2) save for a cultural bomb of Swinger's pad (perhaps more useful since this would dramatically accelerate the time it might take to get the espionage cultural action going to get Swinger's Pad to legendary)
3) use it for a golden age (not a bad early investment since it might allow us to significantly accelerate the generation of great scientists that we could use to bulb education and build an academy) Of course an early GA isn't as good as a GA when we have a larger empire--but it could prove to be timed when we might want a lot of civic changes too.

Given the better trade potential of metal casting and the earlier forges and ability to shift the AI tech in the direction we want them to go, I still favor Metal Casting. Although it certainly isn't clear cut.

 

[Seraiel]

You also didn't reply to my argument that we could get Theology for free (but this time really for free) via GA-bulbing it, and that'd give us all of Mansa's techs for Music + Drama and we could use the Great Spy for either Scotland Yard to later steal the big-Techs more easily or we could steal 4k of instead of having to steal 1-2 techs and by that get less .

 

[bcool]

We can certainly play turn 71 with 100% on Math.

 

[bcool]

You also didn't reply to my argument that we could get Theology for free (but this time really for free) via GA-bulbing it, and that'd give us all of Mansa's techs for Music + Drama and we could use the Great Spy for either Scotland Yard to later steal the big-Techs more easily or we could steal 4k of instead of having to steal 1-2 techs and by that get less .

Bulbing a tech that we can trade for strikes me as a bad choice. Using a Great Artist for a bulb isn't "free".

 

[Seraiel]

It's definately not clear that Gandhi or Mansa will research Music any time soon, I've played games where AI didn't have / trade Music when I wanted to Lib MT and when I then needed to research it myself to get Cuirrassiers.

Like I see it, we can get those Beakers Music costs more than MC for free, if we don't take it, we gift them to Mansa.

Also: A lot more AIs can research Metalcasting then can research Music.

And: 2-3T of Research can be a lot. You ranked 2nd in the last SGOTM because you were 3T behind the Ducks.

 

[Seraiel]

Bulbing a tech that we can trade for strikes me as a bad choice. Using a Great Artist for a bulb isn't "free".

Ok, then it's like this:

Either:

Forges

Or:

All techs.

 

[Seraiel]

T72 Screens:


Our first Horse Archers have left their cities and one won a fight already: (Genghis sent another Archer down the Railroad) .



Screenshot also shows that another unit of us won a fight:



But wait, is that really a Chariot from Genghis besides our Worker?

Yes, it is, so WastinTime was right that there is no safe way down to Pigs-city, but before you panic now, I moved units in that way that even if Genghis should steal the Worker (which is must not even be the case because that Chariot could have captured him before already and seems to be on a more important mission) we could steal it back with the Spear or the Chariot. Spear has got 5XP and I labeled him "Enslaver" a la Tachywaxon-style hoping that we'll get a lot of new Workers from him. Worker is now known as "Surviv0r", and lets hope for his best and that I don't have to lable him "Rescued Surviv0r" next turn.

Genghis Khan is btw. willing to talk again and he'd offer 20g for peace:



There was no message about this, otherwise I'd have killed his Scout inside our cultural Borders using a Horse Archer for the 2 GG-points. I'm guessing that we take a cease-fire because that way we have no troubles with possibly having to recapture Surviv0r and he'll be earlier near Pigs-city like that, and we could also move the Spear into Washington so that the city would not run into .

We still need votes on waiting for Mansa to pick the next tech yes / no or Music / Metalcasting.

S.

 

[WastinTime]

Gk will probably kill that worker so recapture isn't likely.
Edit...by kill. I mean disband

Smart move going up the rr.

 

[Seraiel]

So I assume everybody agrees on the cease-fire? How about playing the next 2-3 turns so Mansa can pick the next tech, if we continue pushing a little we can finish my turnset today or tomorrow and you can bring us to victory Wastin.

 

[Seraiel]

And Kaitzilla, when you come back, plz check if Genghis new city really grows to size 2 in T79. You said the Foodbin would be 17 Food on Immortal, but I don't know exactly which turn counts as a start. T70 was shown when I clicked end turn and at the beginning of the next turn, the city was there, so was it founded T70 like I assume?

Tia.

 

[Seraiel]

I'm gonna wait half an hour, then I'm gonna continue playing.

Sera

 

[Kaitzilla]

And Kaitzilla, when you come back, plz check if Genghis new city really grows to size 2 in T79. You said the Foodbin would be 17 Food on Immortal, but I don't know exactly which turn counts as a start. T70 was shown when I clicked end turn and at the beginning of the next turn, the city was there, so was it founded T70 like I assume?

Tia.

That's right. Whatever turn you first see a Genghis city, add 8 more turns and you will see it Size 2 if he has a 2 source.

So T79 looks correct.


The AI plays after the player so the city was founded on T70. It has 16/17 on T78 and will be Size 2 on T79.

Genghis is moving an archer down to protect the city in 2 more turns. Some work for our horse archers later.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So I assume everybody agrees on the cease-fire? How about playing the next 2-3 turns so Mansa can pick the next tech, if we continue pushing a little we can finish my turnset today or tomorrow and you can bring us to victory Wastin.

Metal Casting seems like a decent tech. Forges are good and so are Triremes.
A shame we couldn't get a look at the Goldmember city, but we weren't willing to send a scout with the boat. At least it killed one galley before dying.

No telling what Mansa techs after Math.

I don't really think Music is a good idea. I still like the Great Spy.
Mansa has so much gold and we aren't getting any techs from other AI to trade with him. He will steadily pull ahead in techs of us.


A Cease Fire is always a good idea when you can declare war as much as you want

I see we got a spear to 5xp! Maybe we want a Woodsman II spear to go pillage horses and steal workers in Genghis' territory?

We could promote and move the spear to 1N of Genghis' new city and cease fire and teleport him 1N.


We can probably demand Dr Evil's 50 after we get some horse archers and power rating in a few turns.

I don't really like trading away Marble for 2 per turn. We still have National Epic and Heroic Epic to build don't we?

Maybe if we settled clam/stone city, we could make more boats and get the 2 per turn, but we are firmly focused on Genghis.


Glad to see Math is coming soon. We could use some big chops starting pretty soon.