SGOTM 18 Pregame Discussion Thread - Austin Powers

[Doshin]

Well, the game cannot be won multiple times, and whereas Objective #5 simply requires a winning screen, Objective #4 requires that the victory be of a certain type "you win the game by..."

Objective #4 will be mandatory for a medal, because "laurels will be awarded to the team completing the most number of objectives." Winning the game (e.g.) via Conquest satisfies Objective #5 but excludes objective #4. Winning the game via (e.g.) 4.b. "UN diplomatic victory with 2 civs voting for you" satisfies the demands of both Objectives #4 and #5.


Folket was right to highlight this:

Breaking conditions on use of Liberalism requiring Free Speech or changing civics on turn zero is grounds for disqualification, not part of the objectives.

I assume this should read Free Religion?

 

[BLubmuz]

Well, the game cannot be won multiple times, and whereas Objective #5 simply requires a winning screen, Objective #4 requires that the victory be of a certain type "you win the game by..."

Objective #4 will be mandatory for a medal, because "laurels will be awarded to the team completing the most number of objectives." Winning the game (e.g.) via Conquest satisfies Objective #5 but excludes objective #4. Winning the game via (e.g.) 4.b. "UN diplomatic victory with 2 civs voting for you" satisfies the demands of both Objectives #4 and #5.

You're probably right, but it's not specified. As i read it it's just confusing. IMHO the conditions for a medal must be specified, then the condition (#5) to be just ranked.

Folket was right to highlight this:


I assume this should read Free Religion?

AlanH posted "Free Religion". I think it's clear enough. He doesn't mention Free Speech, so that it's a free choice. A clarification by him on both those matters would be appreciated.

 

[AlanH]

You will get no clarifications from me. Please see the first post. I just do the clerical work around here, and the scenario description is entirely kcd_swede's work. When he gets back next week, no doubt all will be clear.

 

[Fippy]

Free Religion makes sense, looks like an anti Lib Radio or something similar helpful for UN victories rule. Cos now you will most likely lose diplo points with these 2 Civs you need as friends, without shared religion and possibly also OR/Theo.

 

[Folket]

Thus the meaning of #4 and #5 is that you can continue play after the Victory screen to achieve another VC. Does this means also that you can win - say - by Domination and then satisfy #4 in any way you like? Which one is mandatory for a Medal? I presume #4, but just to be safe...

About Liberalism, i understand it in this way: you're forced by the rules of this particular "scenario" to adopt FR as soon as you get Lib and to stay in it. But FP is not mandatory, thus it's a player's choice.

Did you read my post?

Also what is FP? Forbidden Palace?

 

[Folket]

You're probably right, but it's not specified. As i read it it's just confusing. IMHO the conditions for a medal must be specified, then the condition (#5) to be just ranked.
AlanH posted "Free Religion". I think it's clear enough. He doesn't mention Free Speech, so that it's a free choice. A clarification by him on both those matters would be appreciated.

Read my post on the last page. How 4/5 works was made very clear. While it was said you have to adopt Free religion and whoever does not adopt free speech will be disqualified.

 

[BLubmuz]

Did you read my post?
Sure, but now goin' to reread it.
Also what is FP? Forbidden Palace?

a typo, obvious

 

[BLubmuz]

I see where the problem is:

(D) You MUST use Free Religion civic as soon as (or if) you learn Liberalism, and then may not switch out of Free Religion until the end of the game;
(...)
Breaking conditions on use of Liberalism requiring Free Speech or changing civics on turn zero is grounds for disqualification, not part of the objectives.

It's clearly a mistake.
the point listed (D) says FR, then the last row says FS.

a) (D) must list both FR and FS
b) it's one of the 2, probably FR and the last row is wrong.

 

[Folket]

I agree but I just want an official ruling on it.

 

[Ronnie1]

I am confused also.

Victory conditions:
Must (A) Raze Dr Evil’s Lair; and (B) Own the Swinger’s Pad, and (C) make the Swinger’s Pad reach Legendary Culture without use of “culture bombs”, and (D) You MUST use Free Religion civic as soon as (or if) you learn Liberalism, and then may not switch out of Free Religion until the end of the game; and (emphasis added)(E) you must win the game in one of the following three ways: (1) UN Diplomatic Victory with votes from two civilizations other than yourself; or (2) Culture Victory with espionage contributing less than 4000 culture in at least two of your Legendary Cities; or (3) Spaceship arrives at Alpha Centauri.

This seems very clear, must switch to Free Religion if/when Liberalism is learned.

.....but then the confusing part,

Breaking conditions on use of Liberalism requiring Free Speech (emphasis added) or changing civics on turn zero is grounds for disqualification, not part of the objectives.

This is the ONLY reference to Free SPEECH I can find in the game announcement post.

 

[AlanH]

Like dogs with bones!

Is there any concept of "Free Speech" in Civ4? I'm asking, because I have no idea.

If there is such a concept, then you could be forgiven for needing clarification. In which case you need to wait for Swede to get back.

If there is NO concept of "Free Speech" in the game, then why can't you just assume it's a typo?

Either way, I can't see any point in the current interminable sequence of posts debating it.

 

[Fippy]

Free Speech is a Civic, so yep it exists.
Both FS and Free Religion are unlocked by Liberalism.

 

[Seraiel]

lol @ AlanH.

Your picture (the one with the Dogs) , just made me really laugh.

I was already asking myself, why I don't jump on this "Let's pick at Swede-train" , but I got the answer now:

Guys? Do they have Free Speech in England? No. England is most likely Burocratic. There may have been a time it ran Nationhood, and one could talk about them still running Vassalage, but Free Speech? Never!

God save the Queen!

(Note: Free Religion is very likely, because England afaik doesn't have a State Religion)

 

[AlanH]

Actually, England does have a State Religion. The Queen/Monarch is the head of the Church of England, and this has been the case since Henry VIII decided to break with the Church of Rome in order to be able to divorce Catherine of Aragon.

(I'll leave you to guess whether I approve of a State Religion ... or not).

 

[Doshin]

England has no need for Free Speech, since it has the Queen's English. This is actually a hidden, sixth Legal Civic in Civ 4, only available to Elizabeth and Victoria. To access it, research Monarchy, and, when the tech box is displayed (i.e. Monarchy is fully teched), press: Up-Up-Down-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right, B, A, Start. The civic adds +1 to all Cottages/Hamlet/Villages etc., signifying the residents' love for their Queen and country, not to mention their newfound sense of superiority.

 

[adrianj]

^ Doshin

 

[Seraiel]

Omg, Doshin, you're like one of my best friends, who's also registered in these forums, his name is "BigBossPlayer" .

@ AlanH: English religion being independent of the Vatican, was what I ment, I didn't know how to express that. I think there's also a special term for the english style of religion. When googling England and Religion, I found what I remembered, they are christian, but somehow "different" christians then the others.

 

[Folket]

Omg, Doshin, you're like one of my best friends, who's also registered in these forums, his name is "BigBossPlayer" .

@ AlanH: English religion being independent of the Vatican, was what I ment, I didn't know how to express that. I think there's also a special term for the english style of religion. When googling England and Religion, I found what I remembered, they are christian, but somehow "different" christians then the others.

I would call it just an other protestant church.

 

[kcd_swede]

1. Does it have to have come out of revolt or can it just be ours and have 50,000 ?

2. Difficulty level?


.

Immortal difficulty.

If you have 50000 culture and are in revolt, I don't care. I'll count it as objective fulfilled. As I understand the game, it won't earn you a culture victory if you have 2 other legendary cities until it comes out of revolt, though. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Do I understand correctly that we can use Hermitage, Creative Constructions, Lots of Artists and all the traditional Culture approaches - anything but Great Work artist bombs?
Espionage through Culture is not required, although it may be needed to meet a reasonable date.

Yes, you are not obligated to use the "spread culture" espionage mission to get Swinger's Pad to legendary status. You MAY use espionage to do so in that city, and it should be the fastest way, but maybe another objective is your bottleneck and then any which way you can is just fine (except culture bombing).

Wow... So now we are being essentially FORCED to use an obviously gamey exploit in order to even be competitive. I guess this competition really has degenerated into who can exploit the code better, a opposed to who can play civ... I will have to think for a while to see if I am interested in that....

It is an opportunity to learn something new and make a more informed vote as to how you would like this to be handled in the xOTM's. As I said, if your bottleneck is somewhere else, its not at all certain that you need to do this to be competitive.

Hmmmm.... if it's an "exploit" that every team is fully aware of and will be using, is it really an exploit? I see it as a hurdle on the way to victory; something to be studied, understood, planned and executed.

For the most part, this appears to be a builder's game (maybe with a few wars thrown in to add some spice ). Sounds right up your alley to me...

You will need to master several aspects of the game to complete all objectives.

One assumes we are not able/allowed to gift the Swingers pad to another AI on T1 to avoid it being captured?

Hmmm... finally something I didn't think of. I'm considering allowing you to do so, though would anyhow ban you from civics changes before Fat Bastard (Dr Evil's forces) captures the Swinger's Pad. So how long are you willing to wait for that to happen, just to spite Dr Evil? Easier to police it if I just say NO, though.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Are you willing to tell us our traits in advance? We'll find out when you give us the save anyway, right?